We just won the series vs the #2 rated team in the country. We likely finish with a winning record. Our RPI is pretty high. We arent that bad overall when you look at itQuote:
Originally Posted by BuckyIsAB****
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We just won the series vs the #2 rated team in the country. We likely finish with a winning record. Our RPI is pretty high. We arent that bad overall when you look at itQuote:
Originally Posted by BuckyIsAB****
GTFO. Just no.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
Same folks that bashed Leach are jumping over mine fields to defend Lemonis after beating LSU. Lemonis and staff have earned the dismissal. Period. A week ago he was Lemonizik
I get your point, and I believe it would have been made just as forcefully without the GD part.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quaoarsking
It makes NOOOOOOO sense to bring him back!! As has been mentioned, we're paying top-level pay for rock bottom results, for two straight years no less. In what universe does that justify him getting to keep his job with practically the same results guaranteed next year. And FWIW, he's not going to be able to bring in a top-shelf pitching coach on a one-year deal as a lame duck dead man walking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
He only "won" our natty because his name was listed as Head Coach. The natty was won by players who he did not recruit and really didn't need his input or coaching.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
Our defense has improved over the course of the year outside of a few games. We made like three errors this weekend. That's acceptable.Quote:
Originally Posted by calidawg
It's mostly been about Forsythe and Alford struggling. He has sat both of them at times because of it.
And how do you know the same results are guaranteed next year? This is just bitching to bitch. You have no clue who we are going to bring in as a pitching coach.Quote:
Originally Posted by schddog72
I mean, sure we could fire him now and pay a massive buyout which would limit what we could pay the next coach. Which you would then bitch about when we end up with some unproven assistant, a G5 up and comer, or a guy with a similar resume to Lemonis when we hired him. And at the same time run a massive risk of destroying our future recruiting classes which have some really talented players in them which I have no doubt will have seasons like we're accustomed to when they get to school. It would also greatly affect our NIL in not just baseball but other sports.
Or we could just hire a pitching coach. Worst case scenario according to you we miss the SEC Tournament again then have to fire Lemonis then. But if that happens next year we will have more money to spend to get a better coach and potentially throw a ton of money at a Vitello or a Wasikowski. May not get them- but it opens up our pool. Not to mention the whole firing a coach two years after a NC thing is not a good look whether our fans want to admit it or not. Doing it this way also insures we add more talent through recruiting.
So yes, bringing Lemonis back is very logical to anyone who understands our situation and the baseball industry. Which I believe our people with the power to make important baseball decisions have the ability to do.
Who was it that decided to bench Landon Jordan and stabilized our defense? Who decided to put in Brayland Skinner against Texas as a pinch runner and pinch hit Tanner Leggett? Who put Luke Hancock at first base- a position he had never really played before which made us better offensively? Who set up our rotation in 2021 so that we had Bednar starting the final game in the CWS?Quote:
Originally Posted by schddog72
Foxhall greatly hamstrung Lemonis. This past weekend was a good example. Foxhall probably doesn't move Cade back, he would have left KC Hunt and Colby Holcombe in too long, Tyler Davis wouldn't have been a factor. Guess who did make those decisions? On top of intentionally walking two of LSU's top hitters which was gutsy as well- and that worked too.
If you really think that all it will take is a new pitching coach and Lemonis can have us back in the hosting conversation, then yes, it makes sense to keep him. I suspect that's wishful thinking, but I'll be happy to be wrong a year from now.
In some ways you are correct. But he did recruit Bednar and he was reason #1 we won the thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by schddog72
You are an idiot. He has made us the laughing stock of the SEC and we are supposed to be an elite baseball program. He had a GOLDEN opportunity to build on that and solidify our program and he shat the bed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
Yes he did thatQuote:
Originally Posted by Dawg-gone-dawgs
I can't believe this thread lol
We go from universal agreement Lemonis needs to go, nicknames comparing him to Chizik etc to defending him and wanting him to return, all because we took 2/3 from a team that just lost a series to Auburn? What?
We're worst in the conference in defense, yet Todd is defending Lemonis saying "well we're not as bad as we were". Newsflash: THE ENTIRE SEASON MATTERS! WHY DID LEMO NOT HAVE THE D READY TO GO AT THE START OF THE YEAR??
We're one of the worst teams in the conference yet the LSU series proves something? Newsflash: THE ENTIRE SEASON MATTERS! ONE SEC SERIES DOES NOT UNDO THE FACT WERE MISSING HOOVER
Kentucky missed the NCAA tournament for years but is now really good, therefore we shouldn't fire a coach who missed Hoover back to back? Newsflash: THIS LOGIC WOULD PREVENT ANY COACH FROM BEING FIRED IN ANY SPORT EVER INCLUDING MOORHEAD
The mental gymnastics people here are going through to defend the decision to keep Lemo is pathetic. Do better. Just admit "Boosters don't want to pay for it" or "Selmon has no balls" or whateverthe case is. don't come here with this weak ass logic pretending keeping Lemo is actually going to work out for us next year. We all know he's in over his head.
Lol. You can't be serious.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
When I said that half of our fanbase was fine with just making Hoover, I was actually too optimistic. Half our fanbase doesn't even want to make a change after 2 consecutive years of missing Hoover. The entire state of Mississippi has an engrained inferiority complex, and it bleeds over into accepting sports mediocrity.
This is where I don?t understand why people say we have the talent for Lemonis to turn this thing around.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooterpoot
But the statistics show that MSU talent is 13th in the League. Meaning they ain?t SEC level talent. We have to get better across the board and do it quickly. Not give away another season just to be nice to the guy who set on a bucket all the way to a NC.
Excuse me: but you have to type it like John McEnroe said it when a umpire ruled a ball out!Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawgface
You CANNOT be SERIOUS!!!!
This is a ridiculous takeQuote:
Originally Posted by schddog72
Personally, I just do not have a strong opinion on it one way or another. I get both sides of the coin. There is validity in being beyond done with him, also validity in recognizing how good he was in 2019 and 2021 (it was more than just the players, for the hundredth time, he made a lot of smart moves on the fly) and being willing to give him one last chance to return to that higher standard.
Regardless of how any of us feel, the expectation right now is that he will be back. Kick and scream all you want but it is not going to change a whole lot.
No one is saying he is coming back because of the LSU series. A lot of people were saying he was coming back after the Arkansas series where we looked awful. Actually a lot of people have been saying he is coming back the whole year.Quote:
Originally Posted by the_real_MSU_is_us
Why did we not have the defense ready to go? I guess he figured his shortstop who has been known for his defense would be himself and he figured that Alford would be better. My point is he didn't just sit there and do nothing. He made changes. We have gotten a lot better overall. Same thing happened in 2021. I don't care how the defense looked against VMI. I care how it looks at the end of the year.
Not only that- you shouldn't judge a team on the most subjective baseball stat ever in fielding percentage.
You want me to tell you what the case is? How about our major baseball boosters don't want to tank our baseball program because people like you are pissed off that we had a bad season because we had a shitty pitching coach. Is that clear enough for you? Because I've spelled this out several times on multiple boards and some of our fans are either baseball ignorant or they just like to bitch to bitch. Or both.
"Nobody is saying he's coming back because of the LSU series"Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
Maybe I should speak more clearly: we have people defending Lemonis and saying bringing him back is best for the program based on the LSU series. Youre one of them- Please link me to your comments from a week or 2 ago saying Lemonis isn't responsible for the defense? You only started post LSU and C34 has only started defending Lemonis this week.
You seek to blame all of our defense on Alford and Forsythe. That's not true and you know it- we've seen collisions in the outfield, missed cutoff men, misplaced bunts, have the moved passed balls in the conference because we went into the season without a SEC catcher, have to play Hancock at 1B at times because Hines glove isn't ready, etc.
And you want to call FIELDING PERCENTAGE "subjective"?? Oh come on man, this is pathetic. Yes individual plays are up to the score keeper. Yes home cooking happens on hits vs errors. But that's equal across every team and no, an entire seasons worth of data + our own eyes aren't "subjective" enough to be worst in the conference and fine with it lol
"Our major baseball boosters don't want to tank the program"
1) yeah it would suck if the program tanked- we might even start missing Hoover!
2) boosters not believing we can get a good coach is a fine excuse to have Leminis back. But it's very different from actually defending Lemonis or saying this back to back crapshows aren't his fault. That's all I'm asking for- honesty. You can say "we're stuck with this guy another year" without convincing me the piss is rain.
"We had a bad season because of a shitty pitching coach"
1) again you downplay the situation by saying "a" bad season. It's actually back to back missing Hoover seasons.
2) you're also downplaying the teams flaws by blaming just pitching. Again, defense is league worst. I've seen the team outright quit caring (vs Tennessee for example). Hitting is OK but is actually underperforming our recruiting rankings. The team sucked last year but somehow it didn't light a fire under them. Lemonis has had some very odd pinch hits or failures to pinch hit. We suck at fundamentals like sliding. We've got locker room issues like Alford and fights in the dugout.
3) Lemonis hired Fox. Lemonis could have fired him after last year. Lemonis signs off on every recruit Fox picks. Lemonis is the HC and is responsible for the total team. No, I don't trust Lemonis to get the pitching fixed because he clearly doesn't know what he's looking at there.
I just wonder when Lemo all of a sudden got his new evaluating tools****. If he actually doesn't change his approach to player assessments then I feel as if the so called bad season thing will become very normal as long as he is allowed to be the HC.
Surely there's some free online software that will do the job. Can't be any worse than what we have now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pancho
Anything short of parting ways with Lemonis this year is kicking the can down the road another year. People can make all the excuses they want but unless he has some kind of massive reinvention of how he approaches everything from evaluation to off-season practice I don't know how any of this changes. For people making the pitching coach argument, we had a year (2016ish but I can't remember) when we barely even had a pitching staff and we still made a regional. We're so jacked up right now that we had a team that literally had to convert a 1B to a pitcher and use its CF as a Sunday guy because we literally didn't have enough arms, yet we were still better than we are this year. Let that sink in.
Fox was clearly not doing his job and it likely didn't just start at the beginning of the season so, yeah, that's on Lemonis. Dude should've done something about it sooner and maybe we've got 3 or 4 more wins and we aren't having this conversation.
Also, how many times has Lemonis answered questions with "I don't know...I don't know how to fix it?" I've heard that multiple times and it is accompanied by a bewildered hopeless look. Our head coach in our most prized sport literally sat in front of a camera and microphone and said 'I dunno'. How is that defensible?
So let's let a weekend where we beat a very flawed LSU team effect our decision.
Dude needs to go.
ETA: didn't mean for that to turn into a rant.
2022- we signed the 5th ranked recruiting classQuote:
Originally Posted by Pancho
2023- class is currently ranked 9th by PG
The problem has been our portal pitching. We have not done a good job there for whatever reason
So Coach, since we have such a highly ranked class the last 2 years, why don't we have better results? We salivate at other teams that have a top 10 recruiting class and wish MSU could do that. Well, we did but the production has not been evident or consistent. doesn't this lack of production fall back to the coach? If it does fall on the HC, then shouldn't he be held accountable?Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
We ran off the 2020 and 2021 classes for the most part. Two dead years. Also, those baseball recruiting rankings are boo boo. They're about as real as titties on a Housewives show.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
So how do we do this with this tiny NIL? Everyone says we can't get talent without big NILQuote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
Agree on talent evaluation or talent development hasn't been good.
Don't disagree with this. I've said for decades, the recruiting rankings are so so in every sport to a degree. Sure the top 50 players are hard to miss on but even them we have missed on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooterpoot
The fanatics perspective is mental. One minute we such in recruiting because of low ranking. Next minute we can't get recruits because of NIL. Next it is rankings are BS when we do have a high ranking. Next it is we got a suck coach even though we pay them top NCAA money. Next we can't get a good coach because we want pay them.
Anyone see a pattern here?
You know how you raise your pg grade? Spend more money doing pg events - I?ve watched it first handQuote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
Would an AI robot HC be cheaper?****Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawgface
2020 and 2021 were a complete miss. Our freshman class this year is really good. We finally have recruited an SEC quality SS to come in this Fall. Stacking classes and getting some good pieces from the portal is what it takesQuote:
Originally Posted by Extendedcab
The program is tanked. This staff tanked it. There are no excuses for this level of tank with what we haveQuote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
How many runs are recruiting rankings worthQuote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
first thing he needs and has failed to evaluate is pitchers with a sub 5.00 ERA capability
Yep. Amazing the few here supporting him.Quote:
Originally Posted by BuckyIsAB****
either lemo knew zilch about the arms foxhall wanted or he's totally responsible for the bad evals all on his own. He is the CEO of the whole operation?Quote:
Originally Posted by BuckyIsAB****
SEC baseball is looking like SEC football for State. because of NIL.Quote:
Originally Posted by R2Dawg