I'm really liking the way we are trending with QB's

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Originally Posted by Really Clark?

He said PPG not SEC PPG. Don't try to change what he said.

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It's the only way KB can argue. I don't really take him seriously anymore since he claimed that Bryan Ellis is a good OC because Clay Helton helped him call plays this year or that he links obscure stats blogs by random people as statistical analysis to backup he's thinking that the best teams throw it 65% of the time. When the reality is the best teams consistently throw it about 45-55% of the time.

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Originally Posted by mo7888

Miller actually was...

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https://media.tenor.com/ZuDD3_J09yYAAAAC/sure-jan.gif

Still waiting on all the coaches out there we could have gotten better than Barbay.

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Originally Posted by mo7888

Miller actually was...

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Miller as OC over Barbay? That's an equal or better resume? Holy cow!!

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Originally Posted by CoachT14

It's the only way KB can argue. I don't really take him seriously anymore since he claimed that Bryan Ellis is a good OC because Clay Helton helped him call plays this year or that he links obscure stats blogs by random people as statistical analysis to backup he's thinking that the best teams throw it 65% of the time. When the reality is the best teams consistently throw it about 45-55% of the time.

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Lol. Like Tampa Bay last night. I was actually thinking of his insanity as they threw it 85% of the time last night while the Cowboys was whipping that butt at 50/50

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Originally Posted by KB21

LOL at the idea that Mississippi State is going to score 35 ppg in the SEC with a pro style offense.

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And we did that w the air raid???

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Originally Posted by BuckyIsAB****

Ill be shocked if the MC QB ever plays a snap

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Neither was Greek or for that matter either Sawyer or Locke Were never going to play a snap either
So give me a guy that we might can move to another position or one that can run the scout team that?s mobile. Kind of hard to get ready for a mobile QB when you have Locke and Greek running the scout team

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Originally Posted by Homedawg

And we did that w the air raid???

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Exactly..

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Originally Posted by Coach34

Our new OC is not 60-40 run tho. That's why people are looking at you as a dumbass. You are making an argument that doesnt exist

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According to the ESPN stats last season they ran 56.7% of the time.... so I'm in the ballpark there... so my position on tgat specific part isn't an argument really...it's just what the numbers bore out...

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Originally Posted by CoachT14

https://media.tenor.com/ZuDD3_J09yYAAAAC/sure-jan.gif

Still waiting on all the coaches out there we could have gotten better than Barbay.

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You can go back and drag it up if you want... I was in on Hatcher, Littrell, Harrell...pretty much any air raid guy that would bring in modern concepts.. I wasn't as high on SPJ, Hollingshead, or Miller for that role but if the option were to go to a run heavy offense like we're doing or take any one of those 3...I'd have taken any of them.. not as aprwfferd choice bit as being better than what we are currently doing..

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Originally Posted by mo7888

According to the ESPN stats last season they ran 56.7% of the time.... so I'm in the ballpark there... so my position on tgat specific part isn't an argument really...it's just what the numbers bore out...

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It's what the numbers bore out last year. That's not what he's been every year. He's demonstrated that he's much more balanced over his history, and it has been said by folks close to the ASU program that he wanted to throw it more but was limited by what the head coach wanted to do.

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Originally Posted by mo7888

According to the ESPN stats last season they ran 56.7% of the time.... so I'm in the ballpark there... so my position on tgat specific part isn't an argument really...it's just what the numbers bore out...

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He was 47:53 Pass:Run at CMU. It was 43:57 at App State. That equals out to 45:55. That's almost a 10 runs to passes difference between 45:55 and 40:60, but you'd rather complain than be intellectually honest.

Barbay will be closer to 50:50 here if not closer to 55:45, if I had to guess.

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Originally Posted by mo7888

You can go back and drag it up if you want... I was in on Hatcher, Littrell, Harrell...pretty much any air raid guy that would bring in modern concepts.. I wasn't as high on SPJ, Hollingshead, or Miller for that role but if the option were to go to a run heavy offense like we're doing or take any one of those 3...I'd have taken any of them.. not as aprwfferd choice bit as being better than what we are currently doing..

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You've mentioned 1 guy that would have came here, so you're still ignoring the question. Barbay has 2 years of success at the P5 level. Hatcher doesn't. And I liked Hatcher, he was in my tier 2 names. But discount Barbay like you have is just idiotic at this point. He's easily in a Tier 2 conversation.

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Originally Posted by CoachT14

He was 47:53 Pass:Run at CMU. It was 43:57 at App State. That equals out to 45:55. That's almost a 10 runs to passes difference between 45:55 and 40:60, but you'd rather complain than be intellectually honest.

Barbay will be closer to 50:50 here if not closer to 55:45, if I had to guess.

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Here's hoping that you're right (55:45) but there's no metric that indicates that...

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Originally Posted by Bubb Rubb

Yeah, you don't know what you're talking about. I'd gently recommend watching some game film.

This is the problem with people trying to put offenses in neat boxes with labels on them. That's your first mistake. If I HAD to label what Barbay is going to run, I would call it "veer and shoot" which is nothing close to "pro style." But his offense has air raid elements in it, spread elements in it, and some power run game elements in it, which was something sorely missing last year.

You're going to love it. It's just gonna take you two years to admit it and take that message board L.

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It's clearly not veer and shoot. Barbay doesn't run the exaggerated wide splits at the WR spots, and he also doesn't have that style running game. He runs Jim McElwain's offense. It's a pro style offense based on a zone running game.

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Originally Posted by mo7888

According to the ESPN stats last season they ran 56.7% of the time.... so I'm in the ballpark there... so my position on tgat specific part isn't an argument really...it's just what the numbers bore out...

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And at CMU? You keep leaving that off. Or the fact that Tenn ran the ball 56% of the time last year as well.

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Originally Posted by CoachT14

You've mentioned 1 guy that would have came here, so you're still ignoring the question. Barbay has 2 years of success at the P5 level. Hatcher doesn't. And I liked Hatcher, he was in my tier 2 names. But discount Barbay like you have is just idiotic at this point. He's easily in a Tier 2 conversation.

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I'm not discounting Barbay...I'm not even saying he isn't a good OC... I'm saying his offense limits our ceiling in the long run and lowers our floor in the short term because our players don't fit...

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Originally Posted by mo7888

I'm not discounting Barbay...I'm not even saying he isn't a good OC... I'm saying his offense limits our ceiling in the long run and lowers our floor in the short term because our players don't fit...

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Yes. It's not the coach that is the issue. It's the system that is the issue. A pro style system is not going to give Mississippi State an edge.

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Originally Posted by KB21

Yes. It's not the coach that is the issue. It's the system that is the issue. A pro style system is not going to give Mississippi State an edge.

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Exactly

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Originally Posted by mo7888

Exactly

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The positive of this is that in two years, we can bring in Kittley or Riley as head coach and go back to the Air Raid.

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Originally Posted by KB21

Yes. It's not the coach that is the issue. It's the system that is the issue. A pro style system is not going to give Mississippi State an edge.

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It really doesnt matter. We arent ever going to be in the Top 5-10 or win anything in football. We havent beaten Bama since 2007 and wont anytime soon. We wont beat a Kirby Smart Georgia team. We're not going to beat an LSU team capable of winning the SEC. We have a few wins vs them when they fall back some from time to time.
We just have to remain a 6-8 win team and take advantage when we can win a 9th or 10th game every few years

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Originally Posted by Coach34

Our new OC is not 60-40 run tho. That's why people are looking at you as a dumbass. You are making an argument that doesnt exist

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I think the numbers show that he is 55-45 run. A quick look at the numbers:

2022 - App State - roughly 55/45
2021 - Central Michigan - 52/48
2020 - Central Michigan - 61/39

I think he is really balanced, but he favors the run, which is fine by me. I think our program is built to run the ball. I hope we get a mobile QB and incorporate that into his offense. I haven't seen that yet, and I think that is crucial in success in the SEC for a team like ours.

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Originally Posted by CoachT14

Clark already said it above, but I'm going to add again because it needs to be pointed out a lot. What modern AR guy did we miss out on (that we could've actually gotten) who has a track record of more than 1 year of success?

This honestly isn't even worthy of a response since you are calling this a ground and pound system, you're being intellectual dishonest because you can't actually argue that he's a bad OC hire.

I say all this to say, anyone who is still being extremely critical of Arnett at this point is either just mad in general that he's the guy or they have no idea what they are talking about related to football. I've been extremely critical of him lately, but said from the get go, if he hired a good OC I'd lay off. Barbay is just about as good as we could've hoped once you get past the Briles, Riley's, and Kittley's of the world.

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And there's a possibility that he's just as good as those 3 once he gets the same caliber of talent they always have.

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Originally Posted by Homedawg

Why will it be harder here than ole miss? Or ark? Or any other similar program?? You're just beating your head against the wall throwing a fit bc we aren't true air raid! I would understand if we lit the sec up with it, but we didn't.

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Also, who were the big name WR's lining up to come play for a true Air Raid? I mean, our WR recruiting has been below average for quite some time. It didn't seem to make a difference that we were throwing it 50 times a game to HS receivers?

THe kid from Ridgeland is a damn stud, and he goes to a team that ran the ball 60/40 over a team that passed it 70/30. So yeah, I don't think the new offense will hurt our WR recruiting.

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Originally Posted by HancockCountyDog

I think the numbers show that he is 55-45 run. A quick look at the numbers:

2022 - App State - roughly 55/45
2021 - Central Michigan - 52/48
2020 - Central Michigan - 61/39

I think he is really balanced, but he favors the run, which is fine by me. I think our program is built to run the ball. I hope we get a mobile QB and incorporate that into his offense. I haven't seen that yet, and I think that is crucial in success in the SEC for a team like ours.

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He wasnt the OC in 2020

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Originally Posted by Coach34

It really doesnt matter. We arent ever going to be in the Top 5-10 or win anything in football. We havent beaten Bama since 2007 and wont anytime soon. We wont beat a Kirby Smart Georgia team. We're not going to beat an LSU team capable of winning the SEC. We have a few wins vs them when they fall back some from time to time.
We just have to remain a 6-8 win team and take advantage when we can win a 9th or 10th game every few years

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So the goal is mediocrity... then pretty much anybody who can run an organization efficiently can do that... Obviously, I disagree with your premise but, if that's you're goal then this will probably meet that low floor....

I do appreciate that honesty though...and that's not sarcasm..

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Originally Posted by mo7888

I'm not discounting Barbay...I'm not even saying he isn't a good OC... I'm saying his offense limits our ceiling in the long run and lowers our floor in the short term because our players don't fit...

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You have no basis or metric that says it lowers our ceiling or floor. You think it will but there is no facts to back up your opinion. He may be horrible but you don't know that. His recent success flys in the face of your opinion.

All this still boils down to one thing. Several of you are absolutely devoted Air Raid followers. That's the only thing that matters to you. I follow State and not blindly following an offensive system.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

He wasnt the OC in 2020

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Ok - i still think he favors the run - he really did in the A&M game. Which is ok, hell I thought for sure you would be happy that we have a guy that is going to pound the rock.

I mean look at their wins:

A&M - 52 rushes - 30 passes
Troy - 34 rushes - 34 passes
Citadel - 26 rushes - 21 passes
Georgia State - 64 rushes - 17 passes
Robert Morris - 43 rushes - 29 passes
Old Dominion - 42 rushes - 21 passes

So by my quick math in their 6 wins - they rushed it 261 times and passed it 152.

That is a 64/36 run pass split.

I mean, its safe to say that what he wants to do is run the ball.

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Originally Posted by HancockCountyDog

Ok - i still think he favors the run - he really did in the A&M game. Which is ok, hell I thought for sure you would be happy that we have a guy that is going to pound the rock.

I mean look at their wins:

A&M - 52 rushes - 30 passes
Troy - 34 rushes - 34 passes
Citadel - 26 rushes - 21 passes
Georgia State - 64 rushes - 17 passes
Robert Morris - 43 rushes - 29 passes
Old Dominion - 42 rushes - 21 passes

So by my quick math in their 6 wins - they rushed it 261 times and passed it 152.

That is a 64/36 run pass split.

I mean, its safe to say that what he wants to do is run the ball.

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And his CMU year?

App St HC wanted it ran more and look at the 2 years prior run : pass percentage at App

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Originally Posted by Really Clark?

You have no basis or metric that says it lowers our ceiling or floor. You think it will but there is no facts to back up your opinion. He may be horrible but you don't know that. His recent success flys in the face of your opinion.

All this still boils down to one thing. Several of you are absolutely devoted Air Raid followers. That's the only thing that matters to you. I follow State and not blindly following an offensive system.

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I don't know that he's horrible...and I don't claim that he is....but a metric to say it lowers our ceiling? Really Clark? Everybody on this board that's followed this team for 30 or 40 years has seen this metric play out....

I assume you're in the C34 boat and mediocrity is your goal too....we can reach that with this system and we can reach it with the AR....but the AR is the only that allows us the chance to do better than that... it's not an allegiance to ML... or a pure AR... it's about not being tied to mediocrity and liking it....

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Originally Posted by HancockCountyDog

Ok - i still think he favors the run - he really did in the A&M game. Which is ok, hell I thought for sure you would be happy that we have a guy that is going to pound the rock.

I mean look at their wins:

A&M - 52 rushes - 30 passes
Troy - 34 rushes - 34 passes
Citadel - 26 rushes - 21 passes
Georgia State - 64 rushes - 17 passes
Robert Morris - 43 rushes - 29 passes
Old Dominion - 42 rushes - 21 passes

So by my quick math in their 6 wins - they rushed it 261 times and passed it 152.

That is a 64/36 run pass split.

I mean, its safe to say that what he wants to do is run the ball.

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Watching an offense that run heavy will be like watching paint dry. It's like bunting in baseball.

Has anyone ever seen mo & KB in a room together at the same time?

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Originally Posted by KB21

Watching an offense that run heavy will be like watching paint dry. It's like bunting in baseball.

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Know what's more like watching paint dry? Dump off passes to the running backs half the game & 3 yard slants the other half.

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Originally Posted by KB21

Watching an offense that run heavy will be like watching paint dry. It's like bunting in baseball.

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Leach's offense was what you just described. We just passed it. But paint drying a perfect way of describing it!

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Originally Posted by Homedawg

Leach's offense was what you just described. We just passed it. But paint drying a perfect way of describing it!

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Nonsense. Leach's offense is thoroughly enjoyable to watch. The opportunities for big plays were there, but I definitely prefer to get 6-8 yards per pass in the passing game rather than 3-4 per run in the running game.

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Originally Posted by KB21

Watching an offense that run heavy will be like watching paint dry. It's like bunting in baseball.

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Because watching this offense the last 3 years against Top 80 defenses hasn’t been like watching paint dry right?

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Originally Posted by mo7888

I don't know that he's horrible...and I don't claim that he is....but a metric to say it lowers our ceiling? Really Clark? Everybody on this board that's followed this team for 30 or 40 years has seen this metric play out....

I assume you're in the C34 boat and mediocrity is your goal too....we can reach that with this system and we can reach it with the AR....but the AR is the only that allows us the chance to do better than that... it's not an allegiance to ML... or a pure AR... it's about not being tied to mediocrity and liking it....

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It's just foolish to believe that Air Raid is the only offense we can run to not be avg. And if that's your selling point, the last 3 years didn't get it done either. We have been average to below average for the last 3 years with the Air Raid. How bout we just hire the best offensive mind we can without it having to be a certain system. Especially since there was not 1 legitimate AR guy available fot us to hire. Harrell, already at another school. Littrell, turned us down. Kittley, turned us down. Hatcher, wasn't leaving a HC position. At the end of the day, staying AR wasn't happening because there was no one realistically available.

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Originally Posted by mo7888

So the goal is mediocrity... then pretty much anybody who can run an organization efficiently can do that... Obviously, I disagree with your premise but, if that's you're goal then this will probably meet that low floor....

I do appreciate that honesty though...and that's not sarcasm..

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You just have to be based in reality. We weren't going to win anything with the AR either. Any defense with a pulse shut it down. 1 TD in garbage time in 3 years vs Bama. 1 offensive TD vs Georgia this year.

We havent won the SEC since 1941. We arent going to win in my lifetime. It is what it is.

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Originally Posted by KB21

Nonsense. Leach's offense is thoroughly enjoyable to watch. The opportunities for big plays were there, but I definitely prefer to get 6-8 yards per pass in the passing game rather than 3-4 per run in the running game.

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Like Tampa throwing it 85% of the time last night. That's was fun for you I'm sure.

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Originally Posted by 662dawg

Has anyone ever seen mo & KB in a room together at the same time?

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Actually, I believe we were on the opposite sides of this argument back on the board Paul ran before he joined scout... that's a long time..

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Originally Posted by KB21

It's clearly not veer and shoot. Barbay doesn't run the exaggerated wide splits at the WR spots, and he also doesn't have that style running game. He runs Jim McElwain's offense. It's a pro style offense based on a zone running game.

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Did you not even read my post about putting labels on offenses?

With all due respect, you are way out of your depth on this topic.