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I mean anyone who's worth billions is by no means a saint...Quote:
Originally Posted by Pancho
But no where did anyone say owners = racist. You're out in the field arguing with a scarecrow. That strawman argument ain't exist. The Giants and Broncos owners have been accused of undergoing some extremely awful behavior. Literally just one rule they can easily follow and doesn't really do much to help minorities but it's good virtue signaling. AND THEY CANT EVEN BRING THEMSELVES TO DO THAT!
I mean... Power is everything. I wouldn't call it equity. There is no equity to be gained anymore. Zuckerberg is the last of the self made billionaires. This case is just a clear case of blatant "i'm above the rules cause i'm rich" vibes more than strictly racism vibes if we're being honest. I personally just want the Snyder emails to come out in this or Gruden's suit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
It's such a weird take for people on this board to take up and defend some of society's worst people. The ultra-wealthy (read: billion+, not someone anyone who regularly uses this board will every be) are not the ones to be defending here. And we've got two sides of the coin, a guy who made sexist / racist remarks suing the nfl for defamation and then another guy suing the league for a structure of racism. How did Gruden get so far with who he was behind closed doors with so many owners? Just stinks rotten.
They are absolutely some of the worst people in the world. White & Black elites. Race isn?t a factor to why they are scum of the earth nor does it factor in when they are about to make a hire that could make them a ton more money. I can assure you that they are hiring the person they feel can make them more money & they aren?t looking at the race of that person. Green is the only color they see. It?s not really debatable. Only someone who has racist vibes themselves would think otherwise.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tater
So what are we to do about all the employees who are asian or hispanic or white regardless of whether they work at wal mart of for the dolphins? Do they need some special treatment too? My 2 bosses were a black man and a white woman and they only cared if employees are productive. I'm waiting to see how many million Gruden wins in his suit as well since all conversations are open to the public. Flores made it to the top and I want to know was he swayed to do this now or was it all on his own.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tater
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Originally Posted by Tater
There are two scenarios. One is that the owners are racist. If so, they can’t be trusted to make decisions based upon merit. So we need a Rooney rule for coaches, office folks, scouts, and players (including kickers and cornerbacks).
The second scenario is that owners just want to win. If so, they will hire the best people regardless of race.
But Tater, you are a bigot. Because you think that in a country that is roughly 12% black, it’s conceivable that blacks could hold all 64 cornerback positions based solely on merit. Yet at the same time, the fact that 3 of 32 NFL coaches were black signifies discrimination because it couldn’t possibly be merit based. Statistically it is far more likely that all head coaches would be white rather than all cornerbacks being black. The math is clear and decisive.
So if the owners aren't racist, it must be the NFL who is? Am I understanding this the proper way?
If I know the person I want to hire, why do I have to go through this dog-and-pony show of extra interviews? That system is set up to fail and be disrespectful/hurtful to the other token interview candidates. It really is amazingly stupid.
I?d go out on a limb and say he was swayed to do this. These types of things are always perfectly timed. Take the Jussie Smollet hoax. Just days before the idiotic anti-lynching bill hit the Congress floor. 1. Lynching isn?t a thing in the 2020?s, 2. Those MAGA country white dudes ended up being buff Nigerians 😂Quote:
Originally Posted by Pancho
Now this right at the beginning of black history month & ever since it?s been known, my ESPN app has had it front & center. I?m sure I?m just a conspiracy theorist though.
Not sure what your definition of saint is, but:Quote:
Originally Posted by Tater
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_...(entrepreneur)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Cathy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Koch
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Koch
Depending on your worldview, one or more of those should probably look pretty good to you. You could probably include Warren Buffet in their too, although I find some of the things he does odious, he seems to be pretty decent mostly.
I doubt billionaires are any better or worse than other people on average. They probably face a lot more temptation so they may err a little more, particularly when it comes to marital fidelity, but they probably stack up much better on other metrics (like likelihood to commit violence).
You have a very dictatorial attitude filled with hate and division creating problems that don't exist while hiding behind a false SJW blanket.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tater
Not that there isn't some pretty visible animus towards those two groups from some people, but Asians are discriminated against in school admissions at pretty much every level. Conservative/libertarian blacks are really only discriminated against because of their beliefs if they are in politics plus a few highly partisan industries (hollywood, academia, "journalism", etc). And as much as the country has improved, I'm pretty sure being a straight white male on a day to day basis is a pretty good gig compared to most alternatives. Certainly run the risk of discrimination when looking at being hired or promoted at a big company and some "woke" organizations, and that is bad and wrong and should be stopped, but there are still plenty of jobs available where you won't be discriminated against and even then discrimination that people face doesn't stop them from being successful, they just don't move as far up the ladder as they otherwise might have.Quote:
Originally Posted by 662dawg
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Originally Posted by Tater
You need to read the articles you are citing. The first one argues that standardized testing drives segregation of schools. WHile they claim raciacl bias in the testing, they don't prove it. It's assumed. (They are probably right about their main claim though; I think a lot of parents get concerned about a schools average test scores rather than trying to figure out how students with similar socioeconomic status as their children perform; a school that is 90% disadvantaged could look like a failing school even if the 10% non-poor knocked it out of the park, and indeed even if every child in the school performed better than average compared to other students with a similar socioeconomic status).
The second link states that higher test anxiety could contribute to the racial bias of testing. I didn't bother seeing if I could get access to the actual paper because even if there is a racial difference between the rates that people experience test anxiety, that's not really racial bias.
The last link talks about how standardized testing was used to eliminate bias in injury assessment.
There are better and worse versions of standardized testing, but standardized tests are usually trying to measure something and are validated the best they can. Some aren't really susceptible to racial bias as they pretty much rely on logic involving shapes and figures rather than language.
I will preface this by saying I am not a wealthy person, I am upper middle class but I am not wealthy (born and raised poor) - <$5M total assets. I don't have boats, multiple expensive vehicles, multiple houses, planes, etc. I have started 4 businesses in my career and I know the struggles and the rewards for doing so.
My comments here are not for or against any person mentioned in any posts here, these are general observations of other posts only.
Some posters bother me as to blaming the rich person (rich meaning owners of medium/large businesses) for all of the worlds ills. Having money is not the problem it is the love of money or greed that is the problem and that is not race specific. You do not have to be rich or white to be greedy or love money. Look at violent crime for example (theft, armed robbery, etc.), the perps are not typically rich people. I am not exonerating the rich either as they have their own set of problems. We can't lump everybody in the same bucket regarding wealth - they are all greedy for example as that is not necessarily true. Can't a man/woman enjoy the fruit of their labor and the business risk they took to get there?
It sounds like some here blame rich people for being rich, like they have no right and they should give everything they own to the working class just because they are rich. You know the entitlement attitude.
Consider the following from the Bible (Matthew 20 1:15):
“For the kingdom of heaven is like a master of a house who went out early in the morning to hire laborers for his vineyard. 2 After agreeing with the laborers for a denarius[a] a day, he sent them into his vineyard. 3 And going out about the third hour he saw others standing idle in the marketplace, 4 and to them he said, ‘You go into the vineyard too, and whatever is right I will give you.’ 5 So they went. Going out again about the sixth hour and the ninth hour, he did the same. 6 And about the eleventh hour he went out and found others standing. And he said to them, ‘Why do you stand here idle all day?’ 7 They said to him, ‘Because no one has hired us.’ He said to them, ‘You go into the vineyard too.’ 8 And when evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, ‘Call the laborers and pay them their wages, beginning with the last, up to the first.’ 9 And when those hired about the eleventh hour came, each of them received a denarius. 10 Now when those hired first came, they thought they would receive more, but each of them also received a denarius. 11 And on receiving it they grumbled at the master of the house, 12 saying, ‘These last worked only one hour, and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the day and the scorching heat.’ 13 But he replied to one of them, ‘Friend, I am doing you no wrong. Did you not agree with me for a denarius? 14 Take what belongs to you and go. I choose to give to this last worker as I give to you. 15 Am I not allowed to do what I choose with what belongs to me? Or do you begrudge my generosity?"
I doubt them not following NFL rules gives FLores a claim of action. The league may have the ability to fine them as a contractual matter, but Flores would have to show that he was discriminated against because of his race. Pretty much all of the discussion on discrimination contemplates an adverse action, less favorable treatment, an act of harm, etc. I'm not sure getting an interview is going to be considered discrimination. Maybe if he claims a sham interview subjects him to shame and ridicule that he would have avoided if he were not a member of a protected class? Would be a different case for sure. IF he is successful, it would be interesting to see a minority that is promoted and then subsequently receives negative reviews and termination/demotion was harmed by the promotion he would not have otherwise received.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot Rock
Evidently Flores is just tired of being an NFL HC. He would have landed on his feet coaching another team in the future but he sure blew that chance now. It's baffling, really.
Have some Rep. I've always loved that Bible. Story. Great Post.Quote:
Originally Posted by Extendedcab
"There are two scenarios"Quote:
Originally Posted by somebodyshotmypaw
Nah bro. That's you trying to frame the argument to be right because you can't fathom a wide breadth of scenarios across a spectrum so you resort to a logical fallacy to try to win an argument.
Try again.
And you can't sit here and tell me what I think when it's so blatantly wrong. Considering I said if you wanna call corners only being black an even more indicator of racial bias, go ahead. Like... the point is that clearly there are some appalling biases. But one bias you can measure empirically. We have the combine for a reason. One bias you can't measure empirically. You can't fathom those words, so you're arguing like a simpleton instead.
Because it was shown that "knowing the person you want to hire" had racial bias in it so the NFL came up with a virtue signaling rule to combat it. No one is arguing that the rule works. That's not the point. The point is that it's such a small simple thing to do, AND THEY COULDNT EVEN DO IT!Quote:
Originally Posted by Leroy Jenkins
Full disclosure, i hit google for scholarly articles for standardized test racial bias. Grabbed the first three links without looking. Then moved on as I (rightly) assumed those I was arguing with in the moment wouldn't even click it. Have some rep for actually reading them and proving my point that people on here aren't actually here to have a debate, there hear to shout their opinion and be right. Anything someone they perceive as wrong is just simply wrong and there's no changing it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnson85
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Johnson85 again.
This is so ****ing hoity toity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Extendedcab
I'll sum it up for you simpler. Having money ain't everything, not having it is.
Ain't no one saying that you can't have nice things. But if 10 people have more wealth than over half of America and those 150,000,000+ people live paycheck to paycheck, skip meals, can't afford rent, are in mountains of debt, forego medical procedures... then those 10 people are a problem.
If you think it's entitlement to say that people deserve a roof over their head, a full belly, and help when they are sick... then call me Mr. Entitled.
And to quote the Bible after making that statement.... yeah Lucy got a nice spot for you to burn next to. How ****ing dare you take the Lord's name in vain like that.
I think the Asian discrimination isn't discrimination at all. It is about limiting the number of non Americans entering our University education systems and them taking the best education back to China or other country. That is a national security issue and holding your best benefits of tax dollars to those who pay it - American citizens.Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnson85
It has nothing to do with discrimination or racism. This is the whole problem with profiling etc. It has nothing to do with racism. If all terrorist are Muslim but not all Muslims are terroist well guess what all Muslims are suspects. Doesn't mean there is racism or any other ism going on. Just plain common sense.
Problem is we don't have anyone using their brain today - no discernment of facts. Discernment is knowing the difference in right and almost right.
History like this is why I don't buy Woke Victimization BS.
https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswi...ar-high-school
So Tater, why if Flores knows he could have been hired rather soon by another team does he resort to all this racial, i have had opportunities pulled from me rhetoric? Just good timing?
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Originally Posted by Tater
I can take every dollar in America and put it in a big pile; then divide it up equally among each individual. In 10 years the people who are rich now will be rich again and the people who are poor now will be poor again.
I don't want to put words in your mouth but, are you saying that if I wanted to hire Sean McVay, Bruce Arians, Bill Bilichick, Tom Landry etc. ect..., but then Brian Flores is going to come in and interview so well that I no longer want my top guy? Because that is not going to happen. So, why have this guy sit through the BS interview and waste everyone's time so we can all feel better about opportunity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tater
Meritocracy is BY FAR the best way of determining success in an organization/society.
Limiting access of Chinese nationals might be a good policy or not, but that's not what schools are doing. They are discriminating against asian americans (whether chinese, indian, whatever) because they don't want their school to be "too asian". They basically get treated the way Jewish people used to get treated by schools. And this happens not just at selective colleges but at some selective high schools, including those that are public.Quote:
Originally Posted by R2Dawg
Ten people don't have more wealth than half of america. That stat I'm pretty sure you are referencing treats a first year doctor making $500k a year with no savings and $400k in debt as having -$400k of wealth. That doesn't tell you a whole lot about anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tater
This whole case doesn't tell much of anything due to how ridiculous it truly is.
https://c.tenor.com/dIcuGD7Sk_kAAAAS...ngton-boom.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by Pancho
The Rooney rule is not perfect. But it's probably slightly better than not having it. So maybe that's good enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leroy Jenkins
Its a total waste of time, accomplishes nothing and I find it embarrassing and degrading. Of course once Woke Law Checks in, it Can Never Leave.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoopsDawg
The WOKE are so Anti-MLK JR that it isn?t even funny. And they do not even realize it.Quote:
Originally Posted by OLJWales
The rule is literally racist. Plus it only causes MORE division, not diversity.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoopsDawg
Let the league install a Jason Sehorn rule where you force teams to tryout at least two white cornerbacks before they can officially sign a minority one & watch how the WOKE reacts. That meltdown would actually be fun to watch 😂
I'm talking about how we're literally seeing a squeeze from the billionaire class causing the quality of living to go down. Are the numbers exaggerated? Probably, but the picture to see is that the barrier to home owner entry is rising. Inflation is disproportionately affecting poor people. The dollar worth is up 7.7% sure, but gas is way up and not coming down anytime soon. Bread is jumping up. We're seeing supply shortages. Wages aren't increasing at the minimum level. Childbirth percentage rates are dropping. 20 something's don't want kids because they can't afford it. They can't even buy houses.Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnson85
Yet billionaires are reaching record highs. The stock market is a joke. Starbucks just complained about inflation and raised prices but hit record profits and cut top end execs a check while not raising wages. (And that's been a pretty industry standard wide move). Middle class is being stomped down to the poor. Rent is going up. Pretty soon serfdom will be fully back in all but name at the rates we are moving in society.
So yea... wealth hoarding is a problem. Wealth hoarders are not good people. You can afford to make less. Make less. There's no need for a pastor to have multiple mansions and a private jet. And the dude here using the Bible to justify this ridiculous greed and gluttony is quite literally the definition of taking the Lord's name in vain.
It's not billionaires driving those problems. It's not billionaires strangling the new supply of housing in desirable places. It's upper middle class and lower upper class. That's also generally the same people pushing for inflationary policies. It's largely those same people making oil and gas infrastructure investment in the US more expensive and more risky when they're not able to just prohibit it. We had increasing wages. Somewhere around half the country voted to change directions. It wasn't billionaires that did that. All that said, from a consumption standpoint, quality of life isn't going down generally ignoring the pandemic. People are consuming more while becoming less financially stable, partly because of barriers to housing growth and also because of screwed up healthcare policies, but also just because people choose to consume more.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tater
Wealth hoarding is not really a thing. Billionaires mostly either invest their money or consume it. They don't tend to buy commodities and stick it in a vault so they can Scrooge McDuck it when they feel like it. Certainly to the extent the blow it out on consumption, it would probably be better if they consumed less (which is a good argument for a consumption tax), but that's not really moving the needle that much.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tater
my brain hurts after reading that. damn.Quote:
Originally Posted by 662dawg
🤷🏼Quote:
Originally Posted by HoopsDawg
I have connections in some school systems and what you say ain't happening. Is it happening in a case here or there - sure there are exceptions for how different groups are treated everywhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnson85
You'll have to explain this wholesale discrimination against Asians etc. I know for a fact that certain white demographics face discrimination on a wide scale. The rules say so and match the actions. That is fact. And that is not just schools either but companies.
How much wealth a person has is not the litmus test for if they are good people. Has nothing to do with it. The love of money is the root of evil, not money. Money is benign. Solomon, David, Abraham, etc. were all rich people but men of God. So are many I've known today as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tater
The temptation of money and what it can buy is a weakness we all have. Many poor people are more obsessed with love of money because they desire to have so much more of it. The Bible lesson is to be content in whatever you have, whether great or small. We are all just stewards of God;s money.
I do agree some CEOs making millions and millions when the common man makes a fraction seems wrong. No man in his job is worth that much but they do deserve more than those at the bottom or the organization.
Corporations don't just throw away money for Top Notch CEO's. They all have rare operational and communication skills increasing profits FAR above their high compensation and have worked their ASSES off getting to where they are. The impact on other salaries is not worth mentioning it's so negligible. After anyone has paid their taxes they can do whatever the 17 they want with THEIR Money including Hoarding it they want to. Thinking otherwise comes from Marx cuz in RealVille we call it SAVING. Today the top 1% earn 19% of all income yet pay 22% of federal income tax. Quit Bitchin and Bullshiting. Those who save are "not good people??" Damn Dude; just Damn.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tater