ThE AiRbOnE wIlL NeVeR wOrK iN tHe SeC

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10-04-2021, 08:27 PM
Commercecomet24

Quote:

Originally Posted by msstate7

You're correct. Johnson for 6 on last drive. For some reason, the last drive was bolded, so I didn't look at it. Thanks

Not a lot of explosive plays in the run game are there? We could stand a little improvement there and I believe we're capable with then backs we have. I would like to see Leach expand the creativity in the run game just a little.
10-04-2021, 08:29 PM
msstate7

Quote:

Originally Posted by Commercecomet24

Not a lot of explosive plays in the run game are there? We could stand a little improvement there and I believe we're capable with then backs we have. I would like to see Leach expand the creativity in the run game just a little.

And I feel like marks is a guy that can make long runs.
10-04-2021, 08:32 PM
Commercecomet24

Quote:

Originally Posted by msstate7

And I feel like marks is a guy that can make long runs.

Same here. I like the way the passing game is starting to work. If Leach would just add a little more in the run game it would make us better for sure. Just a little more.
10-04-2021, 08:34 PM
Coach34

Marks will be an NFL RB
10-04-2021, 08:38 PM
BayouDawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach34

What is happening?

Some teams are concerned about letting us control the TOP and plays run in the game- aka the Airbone controlling the game. Makes them nervous. So they are trying other things other than the prevent to try and force us into a mistake. As I've talked about- coaches not going with what works- but trying something else to outcoach Leach

Airbone fishbone hell dinosaur bone. Whatever we run I just wanna win.
10-04-2021, 08:39 PM
Schultzy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Commercecomet24

Not a lot of explosive plays in the run game are there? We could stand a little improvement there and I believe we're capable with then backs we have. I would like to see Leach expand the creativity in the run game just a little.

Our backs do a good job of running north and south but it seems like they hardly ever break a tackle or make somebody miss to get that long gainer or even that extra 10 yards.

It just seems like they’re too easy t get a bead on for the tackler.
10-04-2021, 08:42 PM
Schultzy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach34

Marks will be an NFL RB

I like his toughness but I just don’t see enough wiggle or breaking of tackles going on to make an NFL roster. Both ours catch it and block well but damn when is one of them going to break a tackle and get us a few extra yards.
10-04-2021, 10:32 PM
Dak Holliday

I would like to see us overcome a team using the drop 8 99% of the game. Jimbo and his DC should be run out of town. He thought they could get cute and out talent us, but that?s where the AirRaid is an equalizer. No one is more excited about beating Jimbone than me, but it?s shown that CML gets a win or 2/year over better teams and it seems that it?s teams that are too egotistical to play a boring defense that has shown itself to be the Achilles heel to the AirRaid so far. I say that to say this, while this win was great, it in no ways indicates future success or that it works in the SEC, but here?s to hoping. Hail State!
10-04-2021, 10:35 PM
yjnkdawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by msstate7

There were 3 runs over 5 yards the whole game. 2 were by RBs (both in first half) and 1 by will in the 2nd half. Our RBs had 11 carries for 35 yards on the night.

These are the 3 carries over 5 yards:
Marks for 11
Johnson for 7
Will for 10

My bad 7. I lacked reading comprehension on that reply. I was reading it as our offense and not "runs" :rolleyes: Jimbo basically said that their 3-8 couldn't stop our offense, but when they went to man and a few other things then that didn't work either.
10-04-2021, 10:39 PM
BayouDawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by yjnkdawg

My bad 7. I lacked reading comprehension on that reply. I was reading it as our offense and not "runs" :rolleyes: . Jimbo basically said their 3-8 couldn't stop our offense , but their main coverage and some other things didn't work the way they thought they would either.

Yea we got to their zone pretty good and they felt they had to change it up some.
10-04-2021, 10:41 PM
BayouDawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dak Holliday

I would like to see us overcome a team using the drop 8 99% of the game. Jimbo and his DC should be run out of town. He thought they could get cute and out talent us, but that?s where the AirRaid is an equalizer. No one is more excited about beating Jimbone than me, but it?s shown that CML gets a win or 2/year over better teams and it seems that it?s teams that are too egotistical to play a boring defense that has shown itself to be the Achilles heel to the AirRaid so far. I say that to say this, while this win was great, it in no ways indicates future success or that it works in the SEC, but here?s to hoping. Hail State!

I hear what youre saying but Jimbo himself said their drop 8 wasnt working so they tried changing it up. At what point does it become we are getting better against the drop 8 and forcing teams to make changes?
10-04-2021, 10:42 PM
msstate7

Quote:

Originally Posted by yjnkdawg

My bad 7. I lacked reading comprehension on that reply. I was reading it as our offense and not "runs" :rolleyes: Jimbo basically said that their 3-8 couldn't stop our offense, but when they went to man and a few other things then that didn't work either.

Gotcha.
10-04-2021, 10:43 PM
msstate7

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dak Holliday

I would like to see us overcome a team using the drop 8 99% of the game. Jimbo and his DC should be run out of town. He thought they could get cute and out talent us, but that?s where the AirRaid is an equalizer. No one is more excited about beating Jimbone than me, but it?s shown that CML gets a win or 2/year over better teams and it seems that it?s teams that are too egotistical to play a boring defense that has shown itself to be the Achilles heel to the AirRaid so far. I say that to say this, while this win was great, it in no ways indicates future success or that it works in the SEC, but here?s to hoping. Hail State!

Kentucky is that team. That will be a good test.
10-05-2021, 12:29 AM
OLJWales

Quote:

Originally Posted by Commercecomet24

Same here. I like the way the passing game is starting to work. If Leach would just add a little more in the run game it would make us better for sure. Just a little more.

A little more running would reduce my heartburn.
10-05-2021, 08:27 AM
TrapGame

Quote:

Originally Posted by Commercecomet24

Same here. I like the way the passing game is starting to work. If Leach would just add a little more in the run game it would make us better for sure. Just a little more.

I'm telling y'all if Leach would incorporate a dual threat QB into his scheme this offense would be straight fire.
10-05-2021, 08:36 AM
yjnkdawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrapGame

I'm telling y'all if Leach would incorporate a dual threat QB into his scheme this offense would be straight fire.

Agree. In this day and time a dual threat quarterback seems to be a necessity. Especially when you play in the SEC. Not saying by any means that we could beat Bama with a good dual threat quarterback, but the offenses that have given their defense trouble are the ones with a good RPO and a dual threat quarterback.
10-05-2021, 08:46 AM
Maverick91

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach34

Marks will be an NFL RB

You think he will learn to break a tackle?
10-05-2021, 08:48 AM
Maverick91

Quote:

Originally Posted by yjnkdawg

My bad 7. I lacked reading comprehension on that reply. I was reading it as our offense and not "runs" :rolleyes: Jimbo basically said that their 3-8 couldn't stop our offense, but when they went to man and a few other things then that didn't work either.

This makes me happy!
10-05-2021, 09:30 AM
Tbonewannabe

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrapGame

I'm telling y'all if Leach would incorporate a dual threat QB into his scheme this offense would be straight fire.

Rogers just needs to take the 5-10 yards when it is given. He is getting better and should be a redshirt freshman right now learning under a junior/senior. I try to remind myself that when he is checking down quickly. He was thrown into the fire and he is doing as well as any other young QB that has ever played for MSU. He has the chance to own all the records at MSU even without the extra covid year.
10-05-2021, 09:41 AM
Dak Holliday

Quote:

Originally Posted by BayouDawg

I hear what youre saying but Jimbo himself said their drop 8 wasnt working so they tried changing it up. At what point does it become we are getting better against the drop 8 and forcing teams to make changes?

I completely understand what you?re saying. For me, it will be when a team stays with drop 8 to no avail. Jimbo had better say that it wasn?t working because there?s been quite the book written by teams against AirRaid that say differently. Did it work, or was he tired of the constant chipping away and thought he could do better? That seems to be kind of how it works.
10-05-2021, 09:43 AM
Dak Holliday

Quote:

Originally Posted by msstate7

Kentucky is that team. That will be a good test.

Agree. I also get the feeling that Stoops will sell out on the drop 8.
10-05-2021, 09:47 AM
Johnson85

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dak Holliday

I would like to see us overcome a team using the drop 8 99% of the game. Jimbo and his DC should be run out of town. He thought they could get cute and out talent us, but that?s where the AirRaid is an equalizer. No one is more excited about beating Jimbone than me, but it?s shown that CML gets a win or 2/year over better teams and it seems that it?s teams that are too egotistical to play a boring defense that has shown itself to be the Achilles heel to the AirRaid so far. I say that to say this, while this win was great, it in no ways indicates future success or that it works in the SEC, but here?s to hoping. Hail State!

This is not right. If you can't block three, the 3-8 will destroy this offense. But of course, if you can't block three, you aren't going to be successful with any offense.

The 3-8 doesn't stop the offense. It lets the offense march down the field unless and until it makes a few mistakes. Last year, we were pretty much going to make enough mistakes for that to be successful. This year, it appears to be semi-successful. We have certainly shot our selves in the foot enough to kill a lot of drives. We are getting good enough at execution that it's at least hard for a DC to sit there and watch us march down the field against a 3-8. We still aren't that good and are going to have drive stalls because of mistakes and/or lack of execution, but we are going to be successful enough that DC's are going to have to at least watch us march down and get some touchdowns. I still think we are not quite consistent enough and that anybody with a good offense should just sit in the 3-8, know that we are going to score some but that ultimately we will make enough mistakes to allow them to pull away. But that decision appears to be getting harder to make each week. I think it's going to be easy for Ole Miss and Bama because they are going to know they can outscore us. It's going to be hard for UK because they might not be able to score. For Arkansas and Auburn, we really need to have some success early because them getting a lead will make it a lot easier for them.
10-05-2021, 12:04 PM
BayouDawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dak Holliday

I completely understand what you?re saying. For me, it will be when a team stays with drop 8 to no avail. Jimbo had better say that it wasn?t working because there?s been quite the book written by teams against AirRaid that say differently. Did it work, or was he tired of the constant chipping away and thought he could do better? That seems to be kind of how it works.

Matt Wyatt film study has a good break down of the coverages. They had their linebackers walked down a lot to deter us from running the ball that lead to them being late getting back into their zones a lot too.
10-05-2021, 12:07 PM
ShotgunDawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by BayouDawg

Matt Wyatt film study has a good break down of the coverages. They had their linebackers walked down a lot to deter us from running the ball that lead to them being late getting back into their zones a lot too.

Yes. He also showed how A&M would switch from man to zone at the snap.

From what I can see, the best & maybe the only way to stop this offense is to mix it up & attempt to confuse us with coverage. Problem with that though is that the defense gets out of position because they're moving around so much
10-05-2021, 08:26 PM
Dak Holliday

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnson85

This is not right. If you can't block three, the 3-8 will destroy this offense. But of course, if you can't block three, you aren't going to be successful with any offense.

The 3-8 doesn't stop the offense. It lets the offense march down the field unless and until it makes a few mistakes. Last year, we were pretty much going to make enough mistakes for that to be successful. This year, it appears to be semi-successful. We have certainly shot our selves in the foot enough to kill a lot of drives. We are getting good enough at execution that it's at least hard for a DC to sit there and watch us march down the field against a 3-8. We still aren't that good and are going to have drive stalls because of mistakes and/or lack of execution, but we are going to be successful enough that DC's are going to have to at least watch us march down and get some touchdowns. I still think we are not quite consistent enough and that anybody with a good offense should just sit in the 3-8, know that we are going to score some but that ultimately we will make enough mistakes to allow them to pull away. But that decision appears to be getting harder to make each week. I think it's going to be easy for Ole Miss and Bama because they are going to know they can outscore us. It's going to be hard for UK because they might not be able to score. For Arkansas and Auburn, we really need to have some success early because them getting a lead will make it a lot easier for them.

The point of dropping 8 is so that the defense picks up 2 additional pass defenders knowing that the 5 lineman are most likely limited to within 3 yards of the LOS in an offense like ours. I?m sure that you buy into the when run 100% correct, this offense is unstoppable- almost every OC says this about their preferred scheme, but if this were the case, CML would have a Natty or two. I like Wyatt, but learned long ago that he skews everything he does to paint MSU in the best light possible, almost to the point of being a school spokesperson. He knows where his bread is buttered, and for this reason, I don?t blame him, but take much of his analysis and opinion with a grain of salt just like I do most other talking heads.
10-06-2021, 08:40 AM
Johnson85

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dak Holliday

The point of dropping 8 is so that the defense picks up 2 additional pass defenders knowing that the 5 lineman are most likely limited to within 3 yards of the LOS in an offense like ours. I?m sure that you buy into the when run 100% correct, this offense is unstoppable- almost every OC says this about their preferred scheme, but if this were the case, CML would have a Natty or two. I like Wyatt, but learned long ago that he skews everything he does to paint MSU in the best light possible, almost to the point of being a school spokesperson. He knows where his bread is buttered, and for this reason, I don?t blame him, but take much of his analysis and opinion with a grain of salt just like I do most other talking heads.

And if just giving yourself two extra pass defenders stopped this offense (or any offense), you would have seen it happen for the past decade. People really take this SEC superiority stuff wayyyy too far. Yes, the SEC is a better conference than the PAC12, but that doesn't mean that PAC12 coaches are part time coaches that don't scout teams or watch game film. They are still multimillion dollar coaches that could track down a video of a few of the Apple Cup games if the 3-8 really shut down the air raid like y'all think.
10-06-2021, 08:55 AM
Maverick91

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnson85

And if just giving yourself two extra pass defenders stopped this offense (or any offense), you would have seen it happen for the past decade. People really take this SEC superiority stuff wayyyy too far. Yes, the SEC is a better conference than the PAC12, but that doesn't mean that PAC12 coaches are part time coaches that don't scout teams or watch game film. They are still multimillion dollar coaches that could track down a video of a few of the Apple Cup games if the 3-8 really shut down the air raid like y'all think.

This does beg the question as to why Washington was able to run this formula and win. does it work if your talent is so much better than Leach's, Washington v Washington State talent. If that is the case I hope Bama only runs the 3-8 so we can see where our talent lines up. Something isn't adding up with the Apple Cup games.
10-06-2021, 08:57 AM
dawgman15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maverick91

This does beg the question as to why Washington was able to run this formula and win. does it work if your talent is so much better than Leach's, Washington v Washington State talent. If that is the case I hope Bama only runs the 3-8 so we can see where our talent lines up. Something isn't adding up with the Apple Cup games.

I have not seen the apple cup but a handful of times but it seems everytime I watched the Apple Cup their seemed to be a blizzard going on. I could see where bad weather could really hinder the scheme.
10-06-2021, 09:08 AM
Maverick91

Quote:

Originally Posted by dawgman15

I have not seen the apple cup but a handful of times but it seems everytime I watched the Apple Cup their seemed to be a blizzard going on. I could see where bad weather could really hinder the scheme.

Hey! That is a good point. hmmm it is much easier to make a ball fly weird than to make a man running run weird. lol
10-06-2021, 09:09 AM
TrapGame

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maverick91

This does beg the question as to why Washington was able to run this formula and win. does it work if your talent is so much better than Leach's, Washington v Washington State talent. If that is the case I hope Bama only runs the 3-8 so we can see where our talent lines up. Something isn't adding up with the Apple Cup games.

For the PAC12 the Washington D was elite. They put a bunch of dudes in the league. Their recruiting profile was 30+ spots better than Wash St.
10-06-2021, 10:19 AM
Dak Holliday

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrapGame

For the PAC12 the Washington D was elite. They put a bunch of dudes in the league. Their recruiting profile was 30+ spots better than Wash St.

https://www.spokesman.com/stories/20...et-mike-leach/
10-06-2021, 10:22 AM
Dak Holliday

The biggest thing that makes the drop 8 work so effectively is CML being so determined to make the point that a short pass is as good or better than a run, IMO. It?s his devotion to being one dimensional that makes him susceptible to this defensive scheme.
10-06-2021, 10:37 AM
TrapGame

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dak Holliday

https://www.spokesman.com/stories/20...et-mike-leach/

Yeah, I've read that article. So what? If the 3-8 is the Kryptonite everybody assumes it is Mike Leach would have been out of coaching a long time ago. Again, Washington's D was LEGIT and well coached.
10-06-2021, 10:40 AM
TrapGame

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dak Holliday

The biggest thing that makes the drop 8 work so effectively is CML being so determined to make the point that a short pass is as good or better than a run, IMO. It?s his devotion to being one dimensional that makes him susceptible to this defensive scheme.

And when you keep hitting those 5 yards with a RB that can get an extra 2 or 3 YAC then you have what we saw with Elko. He had to try something to pressure Will. We were going to nickle and dime his defense all the way down the field.
10-06-2021, 10:48 AM
Dak Holliday

I hope you are correct, but in a world of analytics, if it were near as good as you think it is, don?t you think it would be the prevailing offensive scheme in both college and the NFL? It has some good parts, but very seldom, if ever outside of CML, is it run in its entirety. I think there?s a reason for that.
10-06-2021, 11:00 AM
Maverick91

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dak Holliday

I hope you are correct, but in a world of analytics, if it were near as good as you think it is, don?t you think it would be the prevailing offensive scheme in both college and the NFL? It has some good parts, but very seldom, if ever outside of CML, is it run in its entirety. I think there?s a reason for that.

Yeah, coaches wont to look like a big dummy in Jimbo Fisher with his HUGE play sheets for different downs and distances, at certain times of games. Sometimes simple is just better, but people want to come across as so smart.
10-06-2021, 11:06 AM
Johnson85

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dak Holliday

I hope you are correct, but in a world of analytics, if it were near as good as you think it is, don?t you think it would be the prevailing offensive scheme in both college and the NFL? It has some good parts, but very seldom, if ever outside of CML, is it run in its entirety. I think there?s a reason for that.

It is the basis for a ton of offenses in the NFL and NCAA. Leach focuses on more reps and better execution rather than adding wrinkles or additional plays. The fact that every other high profile coach takes the opposite approach is pretty good evidence that that's the way to go, but it's not definitive. We'll see after Leach gets done at MSU, which I think will be the smallest talent disadvantage he will have had to deal with in his career (assuming NIL doesn't wreck our recruiting, which is a big assumption).

I also would not be shocked to see him add more wrinkles after we are executing at a high level. I could believe the argument that he wasn't going to focus on adjustments until we can run the basic offense correctly, even if that makes us worse in the short run.
10-06-2021, 11:06 AM
TrapGame

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dak Holliday

I hope you are correct, but in a world of analytics, if it were near as good as you think it is, don?t you think it would be the prevailing offensive scheme in both college and the NFL? It has some good parts, but very seldom, if ever outside of CML, is it run in its entirety. I think there?s a reason for that.

You mean like the Giants throwing to Sequon Barkley in the flat over and over and over? Just like Leach does. You spot your RB 5 yards and let him get 3 or 4 more. Sometimes, in Barkley's case, he gets a lot more.
10-06-2021, 11:10 AM
msstate7

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrapGame

You mean like the Giants throwing to Sequon Barkley in the flat over and over and over? Just like Leach does. You spot your RB 5 yards and let him get 3 or 4 more. Sometimes, in Barkley's case, he gets a lot more.

Are you implying the giants run leach's offense? Lol
10-06-2021, 11:14 AM
Dak Holliday

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dak Holliday

It has some good parts, but very seldom, if ever outside of CML, is it run in its entirety. I think there?s a reason for that.

👆🏼👆🏼👆🏼Many people use parts of it, but almost no one beside CML and Hal Mumme are 100%. I think that says something about the system. I like the sunshine is pumping approach, but it defies most logic.

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