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It is hard to see how anyone can watch our games and come away with any other opinion than we have a major problem at quarterback. There are obviously some relatives or extremely close friends of Wills on here that are taking up for him and I?m sure Will is an excellent person but he is an awful quarterback right now. If he does not start throwing the ball down the field we are going to go 4-8.
Ok Uncle Rico. Go throw a football over them mountains and relive your glory days. I can't believe you have the time to grace us with your presence in between training NFL QB's how to excel.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg
Ok. You've been presented the correct information. I can't help you any further.Quote:
Originally Posted by CadaverDawg
Uncle Rico would you please teach me your ways so that one day I too may be as good as you in evaluating talent?Quote:
Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg
Tried to Rep you on this... an enormous lolQuote:
Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg
It looks like U Rico got as good as he is through practice, practice, practice.Quote:
Originally Posted by FISHDAWG
Methinks, Will, will get better and better as he plays. If he doesn't, we had better pray one of the others behind him, through practice, can pass him.
I have heard CML?s offense described as a death by papercuts. Annoys DCs with underneath stuff hoping they move to stop it, making them vulnerable in the middle and up top. That coach that OM had that?s now at UNC runs a variation of AirRaid and if you saw any of his games at OM, they stacked up stats from 20-20, but couldn?t score when the field compressed in the red zone. If Tamu didn?t hit for a long pass, they couldn?t score. The stats can be deceiving. Much like OM in a similar system, our stats look great on paper, but don?t really benefit us where it counts. I hate to say it, but I just don?t think one dimensional football can work unless everyone is one dimensional and they aren?t.
Exactly, in 3 games this year against non-SEC defenses, we have averaged 100 yards and 8.5 points less per game than the WSU offense did for the entire season in 2019 (Leach's final year there). After we play the next 3 games (LSU, TA&M and Bama) that disparity is going to get much worse. Now PAC 12 defenses aren't great but most are every bit as good or better than average CUSA and AAC defenses. So the problem has nothing to do with the scheme not working against SEC defenses. Problem is that our offense is just not executing the scheme the same way or at the same level it has under Leach at his other stops. I mean Cohen is not a total idiot. We would not have hired Leach if the air raid scheme had significantly ramped down in effectiveness during Leach's last few years at WSU. Another of our problems is offensive penalties. We are averaging just over 400 yards/game so far but that is against the backdrop of around 80-90 penalty yards per game with a bunch of holding calls. Factor that in and we are really gaining no more than around 350 yards per game. That ain't gonna cut it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnson85
We should have a little wiggle room playing a shitastic Memphis defense though. If your scheme doesn't work unless it is ran really close to perfection then it probably won't work when SEC defenses increase the speed that you have to operate your offense. That was Moorhead's whole problem. When he had time to operate, his offense was putting up 500-600 yards of offense and 50-60 points. When the QB had 1-2 seconds less to make his decision, then we were putting up 200 yards and 15-20 points.Quote:
Originally Posted by maroonmania
This seems like the exact same issue only Leach requires even more precision of his offense. I don't know the answer because Rogers had plenty of time last week and the Oline blocked pretty well and we still sucked on offense. We didn't have a ton of dropped balls either. So it is either the QB just doesn't understand where to go, is afraid to throw it, or the windows just aren't there and it is forcing him to check down every 17ing time. The windows are only going to get smaller so hopefully it is one of the other issues or this is going to be a loooooooooonnnnnnnnggggggg year.
I can't tell you precision this or precision that. All I know is that in Leach's past stops, his offenses would have put up 40+ points against a defense like Memphis in its sleep. Now his defense might have given up 50 but scoring would not have been a problem. I can't give you all the reasons for what the big differences are but our OL play right now is subpar and Leach normally doesn't play a QB as young as Rogers is but we really have no choice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe
You guys remember the spring game and how Abraham seemed to push the ball downfield more than Will?
Will had better stats but Jack looked to run the offense better on the eye test. Leach puts a lot of the calls and reads on the QB. I?d guess we probably put more responsibility on the QB than just about any other P5 program.
For example OM seems to be a one or maybe two read program. The play call determines where the call is going the vast majority of the time.
Our qbs have much more freedom to audible, etc. when we hired him there were a ton of articles posted talking about Leach and QBs and how the QB had all the responsibility. Leach just wants them to trust their eyes.
It would be interesting to hear right now what % of the time we feel we are making the ?best? throw choice on any given play. That tells you if the offense is working or not. If the film is showing that we are actually doing that a lot then the scheme had a problem to fix. If the film shows we are constantly missing open guys for more yardage then it?s a qb eye problem.
Facts!Quote:
Originally Posted by Irondawg
Very true. It basically boils down to a QB problem or scheme problem. Rogers can develop but the scheme is what it is. We will see what Rogers 2nd year in the SEC looks like. If we don't see actual progress then it is probably a huge Red Flag.Quote:
Originally Posted by Irondawg
Wanna bet?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarius
Nah. Im the smart guy and you are just blind. I know ball. Especially in MS. Take it for what its worth to you.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg
An Udder is on a cow btw Kiper Jr Jr
Love the udder catch, now that's funny!Quote:
Originally Posted by BuckyIsAB****
Totally agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe
So we were a little shy of 40, maybe that is the QB piece but we should have scored 60 on Memphis. Ark St. scored 50. This O sucks and is broken. It is a major fixer upper at this point that coat of paint (new QB) ain't gonna fix.Quote:
Originally Posted by maroonmania
Sometimes when one is so convinced of the infallibility of his system that he created, he?s unwilling to acknowledge the fact that in order to work, the system needs a certain parameter from the other party involved. By changing, he would have to admit that it?s not perfect, so if the past is any indicator, he?s not going to do this. It?s easier to blame the execution than to admit it?s the scheme and it?s rigidity.
We weren't?Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
Did WSU have a freshman starting at QB in year 1? DId WSU have mostly Freshmen WR in year 2?
Just because our record was better they year prior, does not equal us being in better shape for the offense as WSU was.
But that doesn't fit your "pet name for MSU coach" schick.
Do I want to bet that if Will doesn’t start throwing the ball down the field more often that we go 4-8? Yes I do. Name your price.Quote:
Originally Posted by BuckyIsAB****
Sorry but you're wrong on this one. That's how he got Minshew.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
Fyi...Shotgun is Colonel Kang. He posts the same shit on every board.
Why are tight ends not utilized in the air raid offense? I would think that they could be a major component for the air raid since they can block on the line as well
Our team had an NFL RB, a solid OL, a transfer senior QB that was a projected NFL draft pick and a very good SEC defense with multiple NFL players on it. Please tell me again how Leach walked into a program that was down.Quote:
Originally Posted by SheltonChoked
Dear god, the excuses people make for him.
Dear god, people making up bullshit narratives about the tools he had. We had one above average SEC WR last year in Walley. Heath looks the part but certainly wasn't there last year. And he had an NFL RB that had been ruined by the prior coach. Hill was just somebody that needed a firm hand, but by the time Leach got here, hill was so used to not being held accountable that he reacted poorly to it. Those projecting Costello to be an NFL draft pick were obviously wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by HancockCountyDog
Look, Leach has not done a good job so far. There's no really disputing that. A better coach could be implementing his offense while also making slight adjustments to play to the strengths of the players he had. Hopefully Leach is building towards something and just needs a QB to make it work, either from Will improving or from the transfer portal. But there's no sense in making up bullshit narratives about the shape the team was in when he got here. He had a team that did not fit his scheme and a major culture issue, which cost him what would have otherwise been good pieces. It wasn't a bad team as far as talent goes, it just didn't fit what his offense and he's not a good enough coach to adjust the scheme to his players, but is a good enough coach to put together some good teams that can run his offense. Hopefully that last part is still true like it was at Texas Tech and WSU.
We had enough talent to beat beat the shit out of the reigning National Champs at their place to start the season.Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnson85
Then again, that was one of the few teams that didn't run a 3-8 defense against him. That doesn't speak to us not being talented, but instead speaks to him not being able to adjust.
Not trying to take sides but that LSU team of 2020 was much different than the 2019 national champions. I watched the replay yesterday. They lost 17 starters from their 2019 team as well as Joe Brady.Quote:
Originally Posted by HancockCountyDog
Of course they were, look no one is saying that Leach was handed the keys to a dynamic 10 win type team. He wasn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgman15
He was left with a damn solid defense and enough pieces on offense to be a solid team. One good enough to beat LSU in Baton Rouge.
This whole "He needs time to get his players that fit his system" is simply bullshit. Mullen came here in 2009 and took over a program that had been embarrassed on Thanksgiving and was devoid of talent. He didn't say "well we will be good in a few years once Dak gets here".
He got it done with the hand he was dealt and crafted an offense that beat the dogshit out of the bears, one year after one of the worst losses in our history to the bears. That is called coaching. We did not hire Leach to install the air raid offense at MSU. We hired him to win games, right now, not 3 years from now.
You adapt your game plan to the talent you have.
Also, he handpicked Costello to run his offense and no one was complaining about the talent level on our offense when we were setting records against that dipshit of a DC that kept trying to blitz Leach. Unfortunately, the rest of the SEC watched the apple cup tape and adjusted. Unless we run into more dumbass DC's we have to adjust. I'm not sure why i'm trying to convince people that our coach should be putting our players in the best position to win games right now, but hell it looks like that is up for debate for some people.
I agree with some of that, but saying Mullen inherited team "devoid of talent" is simply not true. There were 14 NFL draft picks from that team ******* inherited and several UDFA that made rosters.Quote:
Originally Posted by HancockCountyDog
ETA In fact looking back at how much talent ******* did have on that first roster it might be said that he actually underachieved.
Most of those were from his first signing class. I think Sherrod, Chaney, KJ Wright, and Kyle Love were the only returning players from the 2008 team that went on to play in the NFL.Quote:
Originally Posted by Commercecomet24
The 2009 recruiting class was one of the best in MSU history. Probably the best thing Croom ever did for MSU was handoff that recruiting class for Mullen. It was the reason we were able to be a Scam Newton away from competing for a national title in 2010.
Actually I made a mistake there were 15 NFL draft picks on that first team(i missed Marcus Green). Only 5 were freshmen though so the team was very well stocked with upper class talent, but your point about adapting to your talent is very valid.Quote:
Originally Posted by HancockCountyDog
Add Dixon, Arceto Clark (Practice Sq), & Charles Mitchell to that listQuote:
Originally Posted by HancockCountyDog
And you also had Chris White and Big Pern.Quote:
Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg
It may have also been one of the most talented OL's we've ever had at State. JC Brignone, Craig Jenkins, Quentin Saulsberry, Addison Lawrence, Derek Sherrod, that's a pretty dang good OL.Quote:
Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg
White and Pern were JUCO transfers in in '09. Quinten Saulsberry was also on the '08 team, spent 1 season on the Broncos.Quote:
Originally Posted by Commercecomet24
Right, also Gabe Jackson was on '09 team but redshirted. When you look back there was a lot of really good players on that team. Croom had an eye for talent obviously, but just wasn't a head coach. He left Dan in great shape talent wise.Quote:
Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg
and there wasn't the locker room issues that Leach walked into.Quote:
Originally Posted by Commercecomet24
I’m talking about when taking over the programs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bass Chaser
Leach inherited a future NFL draft pick at RB who was also the SEC’s leading returning rusherQuote:
Originally Posted by SheltonChoked
He also had an experienced group of WR’s and a grad transfer QB that had been successful on the P5 level
Washington State didn’t have that