But look at what she was working with there and here. We returned all but one starter from likely a Sweet 16 team.Quote:
Originally Posted by MedDawg
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But look at what she was working with there and here. We returned all but one starter from likely a Sweet 16 team.Quote:
Originally Posted by MedDawg
That's the big difference. She had a ready made winner here and has trashed it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooterpoot
Mitchell would be a solid hire if he's recovered from his health issues and wants to get back into coaching. Anybody know how he's coming with his recovery?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ari Gold
Yes and here lies the issue. We didn't need a new culture or whatever. What she has shown couldn't be any more disaster. No one expected her to win SEC or Final 4 but the results have been 1970s WBB at MSU bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Commercecomet24
Pretty much agree here. I don't know if Mitchell is the answer but he may be. Who care about the bad press; we got bad press now; the press just ain't saying it. We are total trash as a program and team now. If anyone thinks the press is bad now just wait 3 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ari Gold
All media folks can say is what a great player she was, how many years she played in WNBA, ties to Pat Summit, Dawn Staley, etc. She has done 0 as a head coach. We must quit hiring off potential unless we have no choice. MSU WBB was not in that shape. We may be at the next hire though.
I have to be honest. I followed WBB when they were winning titles abs going to final fours. I couldn?t care less now.
If we spend one extra penny than required on freaking women’s basketball all while having the lowest football recruiting budget in the conference outside of Vandy I’m going to be extremely pissed off. It’s freaking women’s basketball. We caught lightning in a bottle. Focus on sports that matter.
Likewise, WTS.Quote:
Originally Posted by William Tecumsah Sherman
I agree to y a point; however, when you have a nationally recognized sports program in any sport you can't let it die like this. Believe it or not it helps the entire brand of MSU. It ain't about how much money it brings in. We know who the money sports are but a program like we were in WBB built the MSU winning brand, along with baseball. It all helps football too. Anytime you can bring in national fans it does make a difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZedFedder
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Originally Posted by msstate7
Well VIc was a disaster as a head coach before he got to MSU...only one winning season in seven years at Sam Houston.
The issue is she's got a very talented team that doesn't fit what she does. She wants up tempo and pressing, not a lot of half-court. This team isn't that. But our AD should've known this. He did what he's done in every sport but baseball (hmm) and that's tear it all down and go a different direction. It's also why some of this talent is leaving after the season.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
And I've been hard on her, but it's really John Cohen.
Of all of the coaching hire blunders Cohen has made, this one was absolutely the worst. I didn't feel the proper decision was being made even when the hire was done. I say that because with what Vic had already built with the culture of MSU WBB, unless you had a PROVEN POWER 5 HC that would take the job (which we didn't), it was pretty much a no brainer to have given Johnnie Harris the job. I mean, maybe she wouldn't have worked out either, but in trying to keep rolling with the winning culture you had, she was absolutely the best opportunity we had available given she was a big part in building it. Plus, in a COVID environment, she already had a close relationship with all the players and didn't have to try and build one over ZOOM calls. Just really, really didn't understand the decision at the time. Just knowing Cohen though he probably ruled Harris out because she didn't come into her interview with a 100 slide Powerpoint brief detailing her 'plan'. Just another case where Cohen outthought himself trying to be the smartest guy in the room. Sometimes you just need to use your basic common sense and do what is right in front of you. Sad part is he did give the softball job to an assistant already on staff and that seems to be working out great. And our softball program was nowhere close to the elite level of our WBB program.
I'm not disagreeing with you - but if he had hired Harris and we took a similar step back the line of criticism would be "Cohen took the lazy way out and just hired the assistant from in house."Quote:
Originally Posted by maroonmania
This is correct, but you can't spend buyout money on women's basketball unless you have good reason to think the next person you hire is going to be elite. Not really good and will keep you in the top 25. Nobody knows who the hell the 5th through 20th best women's basketball programs are. You have to think they will be elite. Looks like Matthew Mitchell might be a really good candidate if he were physically able and interested, but just looking at wikipedia, his success at UK doesn't look like it justifies firing a first year coach to hire.Quote:
Originally Posted by R2Dawg
Maybe, but if we have EVER had a program built to allow a top assistant to move up to the top spot it was our WBB program which had never accomplished anything of note before Vic and now may never accomplish anything after. Whatever Vic created, unlike our baseball program for example, was unique to what he was able to do. Trying to allow someone that was with him when he did it and was trained under him to try and continue it absolutely made the most sense given we were apparently not able to attract someone truly proven.Quote:
Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg
He's not coming. His wife doesn't like Starkville and her family has STUPID money. He's got no reason to want to return other than ego. Riding out your days with no stress and private jets sounds a hell of a lot better than coming back to Starkville to coach.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ari Gold
I actually doubt she'd take it now. All coaches have egos, no matter if it's HC or asst. And I imagine we bruised her ego but not giving her the job last year. Kind of like not interviewing Kyle Whittingham after Mullen left and then him not even taking an interview last time around.Quote:
Originally Posted by MedDawg
Yep. Agree 99.9%Quote:
Originally Posted by maroonmania
When Vic told Cohen he was leaving Vic should've then told Cohen to hire Johnnie. Then She should've gotten the job offer. If she declined then the search should've commenced. Was JH offered the job? Did Vic recommend her?Quote:
Originally Posted by maroonmania
I am curious as to why some fans want to fire coach Penson after one season, but have not been calling for the firing of coach Howland.
Howland has only one NCAA Tournament appearance in five seasons. He has an SEC record of 49-55.
But here's the problem with that. The national media doesn't give a rip if the women's team is good or if they're bad, but if we fire a coach after one year, and especially a minority woman coach, you can bet your ass they'll care A LOT. Fair or not, it's the political climate we're in. Barring an off the court issue, she'll get a minimum of two years. Her success or failure isn't going to doom Cohen, his future is tied to Leach and it was from the moment that we hired him. NMP is going to get time. I honestly wouldn't be shocked to see her get 3 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by R2Dawg
Because Howland took over a program that was beyond dumpster fire levels of bad and he's just gotten it back to a competitive respectable level in the last 2 years. We had maybe 1 to 2 SEC Talent players on the roster his first year. Penson had 3 McD AAs on the program she took over. I'm not really sure the comparison you're trying to make here. Howland's teams are frustrating but they play hard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Parker Street
I can't speak for anyone else, but the reason I call for Penson's dismissal as head coach and would be willing to go either way with Ben Howland is this simple. The women's program under NMP is currently an embarrassment. She inherited a strong program and has proceeded to drive it into the ground. Ben, on the other hand, doesn't have a program that is an embarrassment. The biggest issue I have with Ben's program is that we will take two steps forward and then two steps backward. So, I'd be willing to make a change to see if someone else can get them over the hump, but I also realize that it could get a lot worse. With NMP, it can't really get much worse. Giving her a second season pretty much ensures the death of the women's program.Quote:
Originally Posted by Parker Street
I hear you and agree with you. At this point we either trash our program or do something and take out lumps. I hate to was the Vic years and all the good we built.Quote:
Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve
The same thing happened with Croom. I said when we hired him, it would either be the best thing we ever did or the worst, well it was the worst. We had bad for 5 years and Byrne had the guts to do something about it.
Well fastforward, here we are again but Cohen made the hire. Only way this changes is a new AD. If she stays 5 years, we'll have a 50-110 record and program nuked from ground up.
Yep totally agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by KB21
Really apples and oranges comparisons of both programs when they took over; can't believe anyone would make the comparison. Anyone that knows what day of the week it is for MSU basketball knows they are totally different.
I am ready to see a girl fight on the bench if that is what it takes. With the way some players effort is, there needs to be a fight among this team somewhere.
Good questions but I don't think Cohen would have listened. Vic probably knew that and felt like he was in no position to be telling AD anything after he turned his notice in. Like when I drag up at work I have any say in how things are done upon my leaving.Quote:
Originally Posted by parabrave
A better comparison would be comparing her to JoVester. You had people on here <ahem> saying he wasn’t going to work out during his 1st season because he couldn’t coach the talent he had. We look to be in the same boat now in WBB. She’ll get at least another year- and something better change.
And guys don’t be crazy- Johnnie would take this job in a heartbeat. You don’t pass up SEC jobs. Hell- Mullen tried to get the Miami job a 2nd time after they passed him over- and got snaked by Richt. Good jobs are good jobs
For some, it is going to take something like that to make a change. Seeing the poor product on the court isn't enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by R2Dawg
I feel like we are about to have a mass exodus of talent if NMP gets another year. I would be willing to bet that Rickea is gone at the end of the year, and I do wonder if being able to go get Johnnie Harris would be enough to change her mind and the minds of others who may want to move on because they do not have faith in the current coach.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
We're not firing an AD over a bad women's basketball hire. It's not a revenue producing sport so it sucks, but it doesn't really affect the bottom line.Quote:
Originally Posted by R2Dawg
I believe Johnnie Harris has the knowledge, character and motivation to achieve something special. Could it come close to a Schaefer, or even Summitt, level? Who knows, but every great coach had a ground floor starting level. And, most had great mentors along the way.
There?s no question that I don?t have a smidgen of knowledge or insight that you guys have. My opinion comes from past observation, only. Given the chance, I believe Coach Harris has the qualities to make something special happen.
Whether or not she was offered the position the first time around, I would hope Cohen would make an effort to bring her back as HC .... WHENEVER he gets around to it. Yesterday would work for me.
I hate to tell most of y’all- but Cohen’s seat is not even warm right now as AD. He may have to give up some exclusivity on the next few hires- but I haven’t heard anybody I know with any big contacts say they think Cohen could be in any trouble
Who? Cause many called for Howland being let go a couple seasons ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by Parker Street
Yep. The boosters put him in that job. He won't leave til he retires. That's the MSU way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
Doesn't matter. They probably have the next lackey lined up at Georgia Southern already.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooterpoot
Volleyball is doing wellQuote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
Have we ever fired a coach after a single season, particularly after that year having the chaos of a pandemic? I haven't researched it, but I doubt that we have. Moorhead likely comes closest.Quote:
Originally Posted by KB21
I don't think she will be fired, but she probably shouldn't have been hired in the first place. Firing or not firing her shouldn't be a matter of her race though - it's whether she's a good coach or not, and apparently she's not. She had a decent record her last two years at Old Dominion, but that's literally and figuratively a different league. Having played for Pat Summit and coached under Staley apparently doesn't mean all that much.
I'll say this- after some thought.
I don't keep up with Women's basketball a lot- which says a lot about this subject in and of itself.
To the point where I didn't realize that Rick Ray McCray had coached at Old Dominion and had a bad first year there. I'll be fine giving her another year to see if it's typical first year coach stuff where they have to establish their program.
As far as Cohen- I don't know that even Greg Byrne could have replaced the greatest coach in MSU history and upgraded. Not excusing Cohen but just saying it's hard to replace a coach like Vic no matter who it is. And yes, I know that it has been really bad.
What a stupid 17 response.. "Vic probably knew" crap sounds like CNN or MSDNC saying something about Trump... Just making up something to say something...
Quit showing your ignorance... You don't know jack 💩 about what Vic knew or said... So quit making up a false argument...
Fans like you are why State will always be State...
Who is this referencing?Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
ETA: Just googled. I guess Benko?