If anyone tries to compare the first year of Leach to the first year of Mullen, they immediately lose any crediblity. I've never been so happy to be 5-7 as I was under Mullen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Activated Alpha
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If anyone tries to compare the first year of Leach to the first year of Mullen, they immediately lose any crediblity. I've never been so happy to be 5-7 as I was under Mullen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Activated Alpha
Here's the deal. A few weeks ago, I was convinced this offense would never work in the SEC. I still think that, but I think if he adapts, it has a chance. Leach's pass to run ratio seems to be moving heavier towards pass as his career goes on. That's not going to work. At Texas Tech, he ran the ball much more, and I think he needs to move back to that. I know he's not gonna abandon the air raid. I'm not advocating for him to. But he's got to establish a better running game than he has now. This simple draw BS isn't enough. He needs more pre-snap movement, sweeps, counters, maybe a read option. Those are easy 8 yard gains that he's giving up on in favor of check down passes. The defense isn't having to think. A thinking defense is a slow defense.
Right now, this offense will put up enough points to beat bad teams. If you have a negative play, the drive is toast. If you have to move with a sense of urgency, you're toast. If you have a 3rd or 4th and short, you're limited on what you can do because you literally have two running plays. It doesn't make sense. Leach can keep doing this and he'll win 4-5 games a year and will retire to Key West in 2 more years. Or he can adapt, add creativity and a better running game, and bump our ceiling to 7-8 wins. It's up to him.
Why were you happy though? Mullen had OOC cupcakes to beat and to instill his offense accordingly. However he only won 3 SEC games that year and wasn't that much better the next year. You and C34 have grinded out an agenda over the past 6 weeks against Leach even though everyone else can understand the odds stacking against him. You are the one with not a lot of credibility.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoopsDawg
I listen to the radio and Matt said there was only 47 scholarship players and we played 14 freshman. We have a good core of guys to build around. OLe miss dressed out 30+ more guys then we had.Quote:
Originally Posted by MetEdDawg
Georgia tech and Houston weren't cupcakes. Didn't we play the hardest schedule in the year that season?Quote:
Originally Posted by Activated Alpha
I have no agenda except I want State to win. I was optimistic when we hired Leach. This season has been one of the worst coaching jobs I've ever witnessed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Activated Alpha
LMAO- Ga Tech and Houston both won 10 games in 2009 that season. Our fans will go to any lengths to try and prop up coaches that suckQuote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
We did, hardest schedule in the country Dan’s first yearQuote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
We may not win another game in while Leach is coach here but a high school offensive coordinator saying a SEC head coach sucks is funny to me. If only you would have gotten that GA gig you would be the one we are criticizing on this board tonight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
I've never been more embarrassed for a grown ass man than I am for C34. To be a Fing HS coach and literally maintain that had he taken a GA job he'd be making 5M a year is the most uncle Rico thing I've ever literally witnessed.
And yes, he'll just move the goalposts no matter what happens going forward. Remember when he said this D would be bottom in the SEC? And then it was top till 2 they lost 4 starters? Yeah he literally counted pic 6's against the D because once the ball is intercepted the "offense becomes the defense". Literally- apparently if Costello throws an int and neither he nor the WR can run the CB down it's Arnett's fault. Now he pretends he never said any of it and shits on the O
How anyone can crap on an O with True Fr leading the way at every skill position, no depth at all, and that's getting better, I have no idea. But some still do.
And yeah this year has sucked. I'm old enough to remember (because I'm more than 1 year old) when this entire board was in agreement than JoMo had destroyed our culture and 2020 would be a loss because of it. Flash forward to 2020 and the new coach has to clear out the culture issues, and people are shocked, shocked!, that the product on the field isn't good.
Fact is Leach has fixed the culture, we have a lot of young talent that's improved drastically, and we've got Leach guys coming in. Let's not forget Leach has never been a quick fix guy, so this isn't out of the norm.
Things are looking up, it's a shame some of y'all are too stubborn to admit it/too impatient to give Leach a pass for this year
C34 and I have butted heads too many times to count, but it's dumb to be critical of him bc he's a HS coach. Hell, that makes him more qualified than almost all of us here to critique a coachQuote:
Originally Posted by Alphadog
He loses all credibility when he calls Mike Leach, who's had more success than fat boy would ever dream of, a "shit coach". C34 is patheticQuote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
this right here is correct. He just inferred that if he had taken the GA gig that he would be a successful D1 coach like Leach. To that I call bullshitQuote:
Originally Posted by msu15
I'm pretty sure this years schedule would be plenty tougher than the one Dan had in '09 then you throw in covid and our team dropping like flies.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
And not just a random SEC HC, an SEC HC that has 141 P5 wins.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alphadog
Didn't you say this defense was going to be Sirmon level bad?Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
Sounds a lot like Dan Mullen's offense most of the time he was here.Quote:
Originally Posted by KOdawg1
In 2009, we celebrated moral victories against the likes of #17 LSU. Now we beating our chest for only losing to OM by 7.Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt3467
I respect C34 and usually always enjoy reading his takes but it's clear here that he and plenty others on this board have an ax to grind with Leach. I really don't think they want him to succeed. Regardless of how our record is at the end of the year this year has been the most difficult year in the history of MSU football and it's much more difficult for us than probably any other D1 team I know of with covid, culture, opt-outs, tap outs combined. I don't always agree that moral victories are good but in this case I'm very happy with what I see. I believe that 3 years from now barring any more virus issues that we will be very good.
Yay, we hung with OM. When did they pass us as a program?Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt3467
We can change the subject. When did we pass OM as a program? Historically speaking we haven't.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
We've clearly been better the last few years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt3467
Did you (or anyone here) say OM had passed us as a program preseason? No
I think the seeds were sewn in the Moorhead era when we had a chance to create some real separation given their NCAA issues and didn?t do it. They were a 4-8 team last year and we beat them by one point at home. And recruiting-wise they?ve hit on some guys in key positions where we have not.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
This year they returned a lot offensively and have stayed in tact, while our roster was a mismatch of parts to begin with and has had a ton of turnover and young guys being thrown into the fire.
I thought they were getting way ahead of us until the last two games. Now I feel differently, even after they beat us today.
This is correctQuote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
You don't pay 5 mil for a 7-8 win ceilingQuote:
Originally Posted by KOdawg1
AMEN ThanksQuote:
Originally Posted by maroonmania
Have they? It took us losing how many players for them to beat us today?Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
It's not that there's an ac to grind. But it's clear that our offense is very limited and not because of talent. That's only obvious to those that want to see it. Hopefully adaptations are part of the offseason.Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt3467
And about Dan Mullen- if the season ended today offensively we would have averaged as many points as Dan's offense did against SEC opponents in 2010 and 2011. I'm only using SEC opponents since that's all Leach has to play in year one. Since everyone felt so good about Dan's offense in 2009.
So- in theory our offense will be the same when Leach gets upperclass players and more players that fit his system? Correct?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowbell
This despite players running open on every play.
So we should pay even more for coaches? The 5 million dollar thing is absolutely irrelevant and ridiculous.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowbell
We're not paying 5 million for one season. We're paying 5 million for long term overall success.
I'm sorry, what about last years 1 point win because of a missed extra point means we were "clearly better"? We were better the 3 years before that. But we aren't the better PROGRAM.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
A team can go up and down year to year. A program includes national perception, prestige, ability to attract a good coach, recruiting, facilities, and yes, wins. We've only been better than them recently in wins. Was 2019 Auburn the better program than 2019 Bama? No, but Auburn was able to win because teams change year to year.
Well, State never really separated from OM. We were relatively up with Jackie, we were relatively down withCroom, we were relatively up till Freeze got things going, both programs skyrocketed to even heights in '13-'15, and Om fell off about 2 wins a year relative to us for a few years after that. Now JoMo created a soft culture Leach had to fix, and Luke left Kiffin no such issues and a lot of talent on O.
We're the same. '16 we beat them but the overall W-L's were the same. '17 we lost but had the better team. '18 we beat them and had the better team. Last year we essentially tied and had even teams. This year we have even teams and a fumble was the difference in the game. Nothing about our recent relative program success over them is drastic enough to make us a better PROGRAM overall to a level where OM can't ever beat us.
How much were we paying Dan when he left, and how much did we offer him to stay? And what was his yearly avg in wins?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowbell
Todd go back read the context / he was talking down the road.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
At the end of last year's game with OM did you think we would beat OM this year? What about when we retained JOMO?Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
Did your opinion change the day we hired ML?
Did it change again?
What were your expectations this morning relative to today's game?
We aren't talking average. We are talking ceilingQuote:
Originally Posted by BeardoMSU
I'm taking scheme and play calling. There is not enough deception in this offense to slow down fast defenses. It will have to be adjusted to do anything memorable here. But I love our young players.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
If anyone's wondering we matched Florida's $6M offer.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeardoMSU
Some people are still suck in old ways. Coaching salaries have been booming for a while. Stop thinking of what a coach "deserves" to get paid or you'll always be shaking your head at how much a given coach is underperforming. The reality is the difference between a 6 win and an 8 win coach is several millions in value ot the athletic program, let alone the local economy. THAT'S why the salaries keep booming, you can't afford to not pay them
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowbell
It's limited because of Fr LT Fr QB Fr WR Fr RB's and because of reps at practice.
Dan won 10 games once, Jackie won 10 games once, and Leach has won 11 and 10 games a his previous 2 stops.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowbell
So yeah, I'd say our ceiling under Leach is about the same as our ceiling always has been