If there is no tear but he still shuts it down- he will sink like a rock in the draft. Which means he should return to college. MLB drafts pitchers to f'ing pitch.
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If there is no tear but he still shuts it down- he will sink like a rock in the draft. Which means he should return to college. MLB drafts pitchers to f'ing pitch.
ThisQuote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
I had a conversation with a Major League pitching coach recently & asked him the main difference between Major League pitchers & pitchers at most power SEC programs.
His answer, " These guys can go when I need them. 2 days a week, 3 days a week, even 4 sometimes. They can take the ball & go."
There you have it.
Yeah, how is that possible?Quote:
Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg
How is it that a MLB pitchers body seems to magically heal up so much faster than a college pitcher? It cant be age; even 30+ year old MLB guys do it and a 21 year olds body bounces back quicker. And it cant be that College pitchers haven't had enough time with high quality programs, because even 23 year old Srs from top programs can't recover like MLB guys.
I fundamentally dont get it
For you pitching experts, how does JT get that hard sink and run? Is he rolling his wrist over or is it simply from pressure with the fingers? If ya’ll think back, Bobby Reed had a hard sinker and was almost unhittable as a freshman but tore his elbow up. I know a guy who pitched in the majors for a short time. He threw slow frisbees to the plate but hurt his elbow, came back with much less movement and was out of the game because he wasn’t effective anymore.
I rambled but could the problem be the hard movement that JT is creating?
Good lord. We got no food, we got no jobs, our pets heads are falling off!
Because the MLB pitchers are genetically built like that. They're different animals than you, I, and most MLB pitchers.Quote:
Originally Posted by the_real_MSU_is_us
No. It's created by how he naturally throws. Low spin rate, 2-seam, and 11/5 rotation on the ballQuote:
Originally Posted by AlSwearengen
I hope he can get better and he is dominant when healthy. He is a competitor on the mound too.
That said, he is in a bad spot. Mlb won't be drafting someone that has health questions. And he has battled inflammation for what appears to be a second year. Who knows the next path...but I hope he chooses the one best for him.
Me either.Quote:
Originally Posted by BuckyIsAB****
Harry....I took care of it***Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawgology
What I don’t get is the few hating on him. He is a fantastic pitcher who we really need. Hope he gets better
Someone really close with Ginn just confirmed to me that he is most likely shutting the season down.
I have/had a UCL. It was the damndest thing.... some days I could throw all day and things were fine, some days after 15-20 throws my elbow hurt like a SOB and there was no working around it. I did figure out that the more over the top I throw the better, the closer I got to 3/4 it hurt much more.Quote:
Originally Posted by BuckyIsAB****
To me it's simple, if he's 100% healthy, pitch.
If not, shut it down.
We have been extremely careful with JT. Way more careful than Corbin with Kumar.
You have to throw a lot as a pitcher to build a base.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverick
I get that impression too. I wish him the best as a #1 pick in June and I’m ok with just shutting him down and just moving on. Thanks for the good Freshman season.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZedFedder
Im only jealous that Vandy has (always has) a super man ACE and we have to roll into Omaha with gamers like Payton Plumlee, Jon Harden, Jake Billingsley, and Ross Mitchell.
A player that is 28 is more physically mature than a 21 year old. If you look at a typical MLB player that's 30 years old and you stand them next to a SEC player you're going to tell a difference right off the bat with the eye test. Unless it's Bartolo Colon. Plus MLB guys are used to and conditioned to throw longer- which happens over time. We don't pay attention to that as MSU fans because we see college and MLB. We don't see the development and progression that goes on in the minor leagues. In college they only pitch once a week if they are a starting pitcher and the college season is only 56 games during the regular season and if you add the postseason around six-maybe twenty games depending on how far your team goes above that which is still less than half of a MLB season even if your team goes all the way through Omaha and plays for the National Title.Quote:
Originally Posted by the_real_MSU_is_us
A guy that plays for the M-Braves or Shuckers is throwing probably every 5-6 days and they're going at least 100 pitches usually unless they are getting shelled and they're building up their endurance for MLB if they get a chance to make it.
And MLB has changed a lot too over the years. They used to have four man rotations and some teams have thrown around the idea of even a six man rotation. They're not going too much over 100 pitches a start themselves nowadays. And honestly- some of them maybe even most have had arm trouble in college or the pros at some point in time.
And here's an example- Justin Verlander led MLB with 34 games started last year. A SEC guy is going to start 20-21 starts if they go deep in the postseason.
Yeah it's a tough situation Bucky. They love the game of baseball and I'm hoping and praying for the best for JT.Quote:
Originally Posted by BuckyIsAB****
The thing about it is to get guys like that we need a guy like a JT Ginn to do well here. I definitely get the frustration because I share it too.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Federalist Engineer
Good luck to Mr Glass in MLB
Very low likelihood that he can just shut it down all year and be a first round pick in June. Best of luck to him either way though. We have babied him to death since he's been on campus and if he's still got an arm injury then there just wasn't any way to prevent it. Only thing we might could have done differently would have been to make him a closer to really reduce his innings pitched.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Federalist Engineer
And make him shut it down almost the entire off season. Arm mechanics are very difficult to correct once you have been pitching for 8-10 years. Either you have the type of arm movement that can literally pitch every other day or you don't. Some guys, even as young high school players can sling it 100 pitches and be good to throw it around after a days rest. When I was younger I ran into a few of these guys. After I pitched, I couldn't lift a milk jug with my right arm for about two days.
MLB guys are fully matured physically, have trained their bodies to handle 4 days rest after pitching 100+ an outing, and some have the genetics needed to just bypass those arm issues.
Seems to me, when I was younger I wouldn't touch a baseball for 5 months after the season. Busy playing different sports, doing different types of motions and different types of damage to my body. Players are too specialized these days. Heck, I would pitch a game and then get pulled and switch places with the shortstop or 3rd baseman and keep going.
son of a !%#*. I was really hoping he would come in and everything go smoothly for 2 years then he would get drafted #1 overall for our benefit and his. I was hoping it would show that kids can go to college and end up in a better spot in 2 years. He is really jinxed. I hope he gets well soon and is able to finish the season out on a high note.
I'm sure JT is extremely disappointed. A guy that forego's that kind of money to come to State definitely wants to help us win. It's not his fault that his arm just won't stay healthy. I'm sure he's doing everything possible to try to make sure it does, but sometimes shit happens. Can't blame him, parents or coaches in this case...it's just bad luck. I hope the best for him, and I am so grateful he chose State. Really feel bad for the kid, because he will feel guilty no matter how far we go if we don't win it all...bc that was his plan when he came here. I just hope his arm heals and he has a killer pro career.
Great post, CD.Quote:
Originally Posted by CadaverDawg
Hell, we need to pass the hat around until we come up with enough to offset whatever signing bonus he loses. Dude took a big risk to play for us and anyone disparaging him needs to check themselves.
I remember back during his junior and senior years there was debate here about where he would be drafted based solely on his arm action and effort. Unfortunately those concerns are real. Pray things work out.
Hell, we need to pass the hat around until we come up with enough to offset whatever signing bonus he loses. Dude took a big risk to play for us and anyone disparaging him needs to check themselves.
I remember back during his junior and senior years there was debate here about where he would be drafted based solely on his arm action and effort. Unfortunately those concerns are real. Pray things work out.
Good post. It just sucks that these situations never seem to work out for us.Quote:
Originally Posted by CadaverDawg
Malik Newman
Ginn
I guess Jeffrey Simmons worked out.
It is possible because it becomes a job. 24/7 365 baseball baseball baseball. They are getting coached by the best guys in the business. Their trainers and strength guys are the best in their particular field focusing on baseball players. The support staff around those guys is tremendous.Quote:
Originally Posted by the_real_MSU_is_us
I was amazed at how much I didn't know going from college to Pro ball as far as taking care of my body etc. It is just a completely different thing from college to pro ball.
Chris JonesQuote:
Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg
Reggie perry
I'm sure there is considerable insurance in play here. If you turn down 2.5 million, you get insurance on that asset. I wonder if the insurance pays if there is no tear or surgery though?Quote:
Originally Posted by AlSwearengen
IF he has to have surgery- he will most likely still be a Bulldog in 2022. His career is not over
From what it sounds like, it's nothing so bad that wouldn't allow him to come back in a month or two. But it's just a matter of him and his family taking that chance. And I get it, it's a tough decision to make.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
But if he wants to have a pro career, he's got to pitch. He jumped in the water. We can all speculate what he should've done out of high school, but he's in now. So all he can do is swim.
ThisQuote:
Originally Posted by KOdawg1
Not pitching and going high in the draft is not an option.
If he wants to make good money on the draft, he's got to pitch for MSU.
I could see him taking this year off and pitching for MSU next year, but just taking the year off and expecting someone to pay him 7 figured Isnt realistic
Drew Rassmussen of Oregon State only pitched 37 innings in final year before being drafted as a #1. This was 2017.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg
Rassmussen was their closer until he felt stronger and started games towards the end of the year. I know there is a huge difference between pitching 37 innings inclusive of Omaha to just 3 innings vs Wright State. But conceptually, he could rest and come back for the last 10 SEC series and then the Road to Omaha. That would match Rassmussen.
http://www.thebaseballcube.com/playe....asp?ID=188180
Absolutely. He's kind of in a Catch 22 situation but there is little that can be done about it at this juncture except get whatever it is fixed and go out and pitch. Whenever that may be.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg
If Ginn agrees to come back then he needs to be our closer. An inning won't overwork his arm and we still get to have him in pressure situations. Also, shores up the closer issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by KOdawg1
Well Ginn did turn down top draft money to play at Msu, no reason he want continue his journey at Msu.
I wish him all the best and pray he gets his money and a chance in MLB.
It's baseball, pitchers are kinda like running backs in football, most are short lived at the next level.
I'm not sure why Ginn wasn't a bullpen guy to begin with. Was it just because he was a 3-pitch guy? Someone said he never threw a ton of innings in HS. Why make him a starter? Did someone drop the ball on evaluation?
MLB doesn't pay big money or draft pitchers early to be closers. You have to be a starter to get the big check, that's why they did it.Quote:
Originally Posted by MaroonFlounder
He has the insurance they give but I have no idea how that works.