Giving Croom credit

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Originally Posted by Coach007

Are we about to go into losses of all our coaches to see who has had an unexpected loss? Like to south Alabama... ETC? At least Croom beat bama. Talk about motivation. Saban lost at bama to ULM.

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AN unexpected loss? As in, one? Croom routinely lost to teams we had no business losing to.
2004 - Maine, UAB, Vanderbilt
2005 - Houston
2006 - Tulane
2007 - no embarrassing losses but kept trotting Henig out vs. LSU to the tune of 5 ints.
2008 - La Tech

In comparison, Mullen had what I consider two bad losses over his career:
2009 - Houston
2016 - USA

And yeah, I'll give Croom credit for sometimes beating teams we weren't supposed to beat, but at the end of the day that's even WORSE. How do you knock off a ranked Florida team yet LOSE to Maine, Vanderbilt, and UAB in the same year? A decent coach would have had his team prepared to win at least two of those, and a good coach would have had his team ready to win all three. We lost out on bowl bids because Croom didn't know what the Hell he was doing.

But he always had an excuse. No talent? He inherited plenty of it. He just didn't know how to coach it.

Croom is the worst coach in the history of MSU football. This idea that he “cleaned up the program” is a joke and a crutch that people use to try and make his tenure look better than it was. He kicked off half the team because he is a complete idiot. That was completely unnecessary. He gave us the self imposed death penalty. He proceeded to bring in “his guys” who had more legal problems than the ones he kicked off the team. Then he has the audacity to get mad at MSU for firing his ass. I have zero respect for him and if we ever honor him at MSU it is a mistake.

Fact: Croom was a horrible SEC head coach. End thread/

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Originally Posted by Really Clark?

The goal line play vs LSU at the end of the game in Mullen?s first year wasn?t a jump pass. We ran an option and Tyson (Henig wasn?t the QB) decided to keep instead of pitching to Dixon. I still believe Dixon scores easily, Tyson just made the wrong decision. The play call was there for a score and win.

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We did run a jump pass in that series at the end of the game on the goal line. The ball was knocked away by that LSU safety that also played on the baseball team, chad something. Tyson Lee was the qb.

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Originally Posted by BankerDog

1) Fletcher Cox
2) Gabe Jackson
3)KJ Wright
4) Boobie
5) Johnathan Banks
6) Derek Pegues
7) Derek Sherrod
8) Pernell McPhee
9) Charles Mitchell
10) Jamar Chaney
11) Kyle Love
12) Deontae Skinner
13) Nickoe Whitley

I wouldn?t really call that list terrible when the top 3 guys are three of the highest paid players in the NFL, an additional two are still playing, and 11 of the 13 played in the NFL. As I said in the post above, Anthony Johnson and Mike Brown were sure fire NFL picks. Yes the on field results absolutely sucked and yes I was pissed when he ran off Nick Turner and Darren Williams, but you have to give him a little more credit. He is also the last coach to beat Bama for us and did it in twice.

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He never coached Fletcher Cox or McPhee. So sure if you want to parse words like that, but let's not give him more credit on those. Still not a guarantee they sign with us with Croom as the head coach because Saban came after Cox hard. Hell, Croom wasn't even the head coach when they signed the dotted line on signing day.

Folks giving him credit for beating Bama are hilarious in grasping straws. Bama then isn't anything like Bama now. It's insane to even make that as a positive. If you added the win total of those 2 Bama teams Croom beat together, I believe 6 Bama teams since then have gotten that many wins or more in 1 season. So can we dispense with the garbage of "beating Bama" without providing the necessary context. Which was a bigger impact on our program, beating Bama or losing to Maine? I'll hang up and listen.

Ask some of his former players what they think about Croom. I?ve heard a few of them say they couldn?t stand him and his arrogance.

Croom's job was to be a head coach. I saw nothing to indicate that he could do that job effectively. He was a failure. An absolute terrible hire.

One of my favorites is when he was asked about the small number of wideouts on the roster. He responded that it was no big deal because "I can find a wideout on every street corner in Miami." But he never visited those street corners and got them apparently, because when Mullen showed up, he mentioned how he didn't have enough bodies at wideout to even practice. He had to play Cam Lawrence (early entry from high school) at wideout in the spring to have enough bodies to run drills.

Croom may have been a great assistant head coach. But as a head coach, he was just terrible.

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Originally Posted by MetEdDawg

He never coached Fletcher Cox or McPhee. So sure if you want to parse words like that, but let's not give him more credit on those. Still not a guarantee they sign with us with Croom as the head coach because Saban came after Cox hard. Hell, Croom wasn't even the head coach when they signed the dotted line on signing day.

Folks giving him credit for beating Bama are hilarious in grasping straws. Bama then isn't anything like Bama now. It's insane to even make that as a positive. If you added the win total of those 2 Bama teams Croom beat together, I believe 6 Bama teams since then have gotten that many wins or more in 1 season. So can we dispense with the garbage of "beating Bama" without providing the necessary context. Which was a bigger impact on our program, beating Bama or losing to Maine? I'll hang up and listen.

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You didn?t say the players he coached, you said his top 10 recruits. Those are recruits.

All I said was he was the last coach to beat Bama. They weren?t as good then as they are now, yes but it still hasn?t been done with our ?best teams ever?. But hey Mullen also lost to South AL at home with more talent and still never beat Bama. I?m not arguing Croom was some incredible coach, but he you have to give him credit for a few things.

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Originally Posted by Jarius

Croom is the worst coach in the history of MSU football. This idea that he “cleaned up the program” is a joke and a crutch that people use to try and make his tenure look better than it was. He kicked off half the team because he is a complete idiot. That was completely unnecessary. He gave us the self imposed death penalty. He proceeded to bring in “his guys” who had more legal problems than the ones he kicked off the team. Then he has the audacity to get mad at MSU for firing his ass. I have zero respect for him and if we ever honor him at MSU it is a mistake.

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THIS. Croom was a great dude, but an absolutely terrible head coach.

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Originally Posted by BankerDog

You didn?t say the players he coached, you said his top 10 recruits. Those are recruits.

All I said was he was the last coach to beat Bama. They weren?t as good then as they are now, yes but it still hasn?t been done with our ?best teams ever?. I?m not arguing Croom was some incredible coach, but he you have to give him credit for a few things.

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He recruited them yes, but he didn't sign them. Mullen did. So they don't count because we all know that Croom very easily could have lost one or both of them had he stayed. No guarantee he keeps them at all.

I just don't see how we can give him credit when the SEC straight up boat raced us during his tenure. Sure he got a couple good players. EVERY coach in the SEC got some good players while they were there. I just don't see how we can credit him for doing anything to progress our program. What were we better at when Croom left than when he got there?

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Originally Posted by MetEdDawg

He recruited them yes, but he didn't sign them. Mullen did. So they don't count because we all know that Croom very easily could have lost one or both of them had he stayed. No guarantee he keeps them at all.

I just don't see how we can give him credit when the SEC straight up boat raced us during his tenure. Sure he got a couple good players. EVERY coach in the SEC got some good players while they were there. I just don't see how we can credit him for doing anything to progress our program. What were we better at when Croom left than when he got there?

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Again, you said list out his top 10 recruits. I did and it?s a pretty impressive group.

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Originally Posted by BankerDog

Again, you said list out his top 10 recruits. I did and it?s a pretty impressive group.

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Like MetEd already said, you're going to get some good players simply by playing in the SEC. What that list says to me more than anything is that, in hindsight, he couldn't recruit for shit on offense. The way I see it that could be explained one of two ways (or a combination of both): 1. his over-complicated, outdated, boring offense couldn't attract enough good players, or 2.) his over-complicated, outdated, boring offense was unable to utilize and showcase the offensive talent he did have.

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Originally Posted by thf24

Like MetEd already said, you're going to get some good players simply by playing in the SEC. What that list says to me more than anything is that, in hindsight, he couldn't recruit for shit on offense. The way I see it that could be explained one of two ways (or a combination of both): 1. his over-complicated, outdated, boring offense couldn't attract enough good players, or 2.) his over-complicated, outdated, boring offense was unable to utilize and showcase the offensive talent he did have.

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I truly wish I could have seen Omar Conner and Jerious Norwood in Mullen's offense. It would have been a lot of fun.

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Originally Posted by BankerDog

Again, you said list out his top 10 recruits. I did and it?s a pretty impressive group.

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So if I list the Top 10 guys Mullen attempted to get on campus that counts right?

You know what I meant. Of course it's Top 10 guys that signed and made it to campus. Mullen recruited Cam Newton. So let's count him toward Mullen's count. See how little sense that makes?

His Top 10 list of kids that made it to campus while he was head coach is not that impressive. Yes there are good kids on there. There's supposed to be. But you compare that lis to every other schools list during that same time and it won't turn out in our favor.

It's not a super impressive list when multiple people in your Top 10 were out of the NFL completely in less than 3 years.

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Originally Posted by Coach007

I 100% believe we had a man of integrity that set the strong foundation for the next man to build up MSU right. You might disagree, and that is ok. Makes the world go around. But I believe he cleaned up a lot of things and started the righting of the ship.


https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=h...6-2005.jpg&f=1

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To sum this up: the NCAA decided to pound us ultimately for hiring Jackie Sherrill. So they did with a 3 year investigation that buried us no matter the penalties. To keep the penalties mitigated, we hired a decent man and the SECs first black head coach. It worked. The penalties were not in line with the length of the investigation. He was also not ready to run a program starting in that condition, but he did the best he could and did in fact build team cohesion.

You aren?t going to get many message board fans to praise his work. That said, Its long past time State fans let it go with bashing the man. I question whether anyone could have recovered our program in under 5 years.

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Originally Posted by MetEdDawg

So if I list the Top 10 guys Mullen attempted to get on campus that counts right?

You know what I meant. Of course it's Top 10 guys that signed and made it to campus. Mullen recruited Cam Newton. So let's count him toward Mullen's count. See how little sense that makes?

His Top 10 list of kids that made it to campus while he was head coach is not that impressive. Yes there are good kids on there. There's supposed to be. But you compare that lis to every other schools list during that same time and it won't turn out in our favor.

It's not a super impressive list when multiple people in your Top 10 were out of the NFL completely in less than 3 years.

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Yeah..but I gave you guys he recruited and committed that made it to campus. Outside of Cox, Banks, and McPhee he coached all of those guys. So now you?re backing off what you initially said.
The average NFL career is 3 years..just saying.

Look the guy wasn?t a world beater, his problem was more then recruiting. I?m not saying build a statue for the man. He started playing the recruiting game way too late. His misses with Tes Ginn, LaMichael James, Suh, McNeil, Cam Newton the first time, and countless others were inexcusable. Had he adapted his offense to a spread with Omar Conner and Norwood things may have turned out different for him.

Searching for "great dude" evidence

https://media.giphy.com/media/zQ3pFTXU7LC92/giphy.gif

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Originally Posted by tcdog70

Also HENIG wasn't the QB against LSU under Dan. The Croom Error was almost as awful as the Shria Error. If the Slytanic was worth a shit why has He never been more than RB coach since? Because, he hasn't not a clue how to be a head Coach. If you remember he removed Omarr and replaced Him with HENIG. He ****ing punted from the other teams 35 yard line. He lost to Maine and then said they had a better team. His clock management was a clinic for how not to manage the clock. He lost to Tulane after Katrina decimated them. He benched a great kicker and replaced with one that couldn't kick a 35 Yarder. We had 5 turn over from Ga. and still lost, because instead of kicking a winning FG, he let HENIG, TRY A STUPID PASS. AND GOT SACKED. I could go on and on, like Croom not taking all His in home visits. 007 your stance on ole Sly has stomped a mud hole in any credibility you had.

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No.. I will say it again. This thread is not about his record. This thread is not "Croom was a great HC". Learn to differentiate in what's being said.

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Originally Posted by R2Dawg

Boy so true. SEC and PF hated JWS because he was a threat to make MSU a year end, year out contender. JWS started to own Bama and others and they were all upset at Jackie.

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JWS's last 3 years, were horrible and resulted in MSU on probation. Never won more than 3 games. His last year we won only 2.

We lost to:

2003:
Tulane
Houston
Did not win a single SEC game

2002:

Lost every SEC game.

2001:

Lost to TROY St At HOME COMING


Again, this thread is about what Croom did right. Not him as a HC.

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Originally Posted by QuadrupleOption

AN unexpected loss? As in, one? Croom routinely lost to teams we had no business losing to.
2004 - Maine, UAB, Vanderbilt
2005 - Houston
2006 - Tulane
2007 - no embarrassing losses but kept trotting Henig out vs. LSU to the tune of 5 ints.
2008 - La Tech

In comparison, Mullen had what I consider two bad losses over his career:
2009 - Houston
2016 - USA

And yeah, I'll give Croom credit for sometimes beating teams we weren't supposed to beat, but at the end of the day that's even WORSE. How do you knock off a ranked Florida team yet LOSE to Maine, Vanderbilt, and UAB in the same year? A decent coach would have had his team prepared to win at least two of those, and a good coach would have had his team ready to win all three. We lost out on bowl bids because Croom didn't know what the Hell he was doing.

But he always had an excuse. No talent? He inherited plenty of it. He just didn't know how to coach it.

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He inherited no such thing. That talent had spent 3 years only winning 3, 3, and 2 games. He inherited a program that had been allowed to run amok. The Alumni was pissed at the player issues and lack of control that landed us on a 4 year probation.

That is the facts of what he inherited. He inherited A parade AA who counterfeited money before he got there. He gave that player another chance, and the player didn't take it. So he dismissed his Top RB.

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Originally Posted by Coach007

Again, this thread is about what Croom did right. Not him as a HC.

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What are you trying to separate here? Everything he did while he was at State was as a head coach. He was a terrible head coach. Therefore almost everything he did was indeed terrible. He signed some good players. He gave a nice welcoming speech. He had a couple of good upsets. He didn't get us into more trouble with the NCAA and he left the cupboard decently stocked at a few positions for Mullen. If you're looking for more positive things to say about Croom than what I just listed you're gonna be waiting in your "Croom is Great" bunker for a very long time.

Before you continue to shit all over Jackie just remember his wife was battling cancer at the same exact time our program bottomed out.

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Originally Posted by MetEdDawg

He never coached Fletcher Cox or McPhee. So sure if you want to parse words like that, but let's not give him more credit on those. Still not a guarantee they sign with us with Croom as the head coach because Saban came after Cox hard. Hell, Croom wasn't even the head coach when they signed the dotted line on signing day.

Folks giving him credit for beating Bama are hilarious in grasping straws. Bama then isn't anything like Bama now. It's insane to even make that as a positive. If you added the win total of those 2 Bama teams Croom beat together, I believe 6 Bama teams since then have gotten that many wins or more in 1 season. So can we dispense with the garbage of "beating Bama" without providing the necessary context. Which was a bigger impact on our program, beating Bama or losing to Maine? I'll hang up and listen.

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He also coached one of the best RBs in MSU history. He went pro too. Norwood.

Fact for you. JWS was losing to Bama for 3 years or more prior. THose were also during the dark ages for Bama. 2001, Bama won 4 sec games only. 2003 they only won 2 SEC games. And MS ST was NOT beating them then.

So again... Yes, Bama had a poor decade.. 2 Coaches during that time had a chance to set beating them in motion. Only Croom beat them.

I just read where Croom inherited the best talent etc... YET during Bama dark years, JWS could not take that talent and win?? But Croom could? Can't have it both ways.

So once again.. a team with player issues to the point that the alumni was pissed. Put us on Probation. 4 of Crooms 5 years was under probation.

Mississippi State's football program was placed on probation by the NCAA for four years, stripped of eight scholarships over the next two seasons. allowed just 81 football scholarships for the 2005 and 2006 seasons, and are limited to 45 expense-paid recruiting visits in each of the 2004-05 and 2005-06 academic years
-- 11 per year fewer than the maximum allowed by the NCAA. JWS had Ms ST considered a repeat offender because the school also lost 13 scholarships after an investigation in 1996.

There was a massive cloud over Ms St at that time. So yeah, recruiting was bad... But he still managed to get better classes than the previous year. And when that cloud/reductions/visits was lifted.... The recruiting got better.

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Originally Posted by gravedigger

To sum this up: the NCAA decided to pound us ultimately for hiring Jackie Sherrill. So they did with a 3 year investigation that buried us no matter the penalties. To keep the penalties mitigated, we hired a decent man and the SECs first black head coach. It worked. The penalties were not in line with the length of the investigation. He was also not ready to run a program starting in that condition, but he did the best he could and did in fact build team cohesion.

You aren?t going to get many message board fans to praise his work. That said, Its long past time State fans let it go with bashing the man. I question whether anyone could have recovered our program in under 5 years.

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That's correct. And few people were going to come in and take the reins of a team that had a total of 8 wins in 3 season with 2 of those being SEC wins that had the NCAA going all out on them. It wasn't a winning program and the NCAA was hammer it.

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Originally Posted by Dawg61

Before you continue to shit all over Jackie just remember his wife was battling cancer at the same exact time our program bottomed out.

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I get it. Not saying anything other than what Croom walked into regardless the situation. JWS saw our University get hammered as a repeat offender.

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Originally Posted by Coach007

I get it. Not saying anything other than what Croom walked into regardless the situation. JWS saw our University get hammered as a repeat offender.

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True but the NCAA was also out to get Sherrill. They couldn't of given two shits about Croom or what he did while here. Not saying we should have but if we were ever gonna cheat our asses off the best time was probably under Croom since once we hired him the NCAA immediately went sniffing elsewhere.

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Originally Posted by Dawg61

True but the NCAA was also out to get Sherrill.

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That doesn't really have a part of the conversation and I hope he wins in court. The only thing that pertains to this conversation is where we were and how Croom gets credit for guiding through those years.

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but if we were ever gonna cheat our asses off the best time was probably under Croom since once we hired him the NCAA immediately went sniffing elsewhere.

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We were repeat offenders.. that was our status and you wanted us to cheat? SERIOUSLY?

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Originally Posted by Dawg61

Before you continue to shit all over Jackie just remember his wife was battling cancer at the same exact time our program bottomed out.

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He was also being harassed by the NCAA/Ole Miss witch hunt for his last 2 or 3 years which made it very difficult to sign HS players for the long term (remember the approx 22 JC players in one class disaster) or keep asst coaches ( last year or so was a halfway house for over the hill ex- head coaches.). BTW, Jackie was never implicated directly in any of the violations.

Croom was a dud. Blamed all his failures on someone else. Again, why did bama not hire him when they had the opening? Answer, they knew he was not head coach material. So did the NFL, career RB coach, before and after his time at State.

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Originally Posted by Coach007

That doesn't really have a part of the conversation and I hope he wins in court. The only thing that pertains to this conversation is where we were and how Croom gets credit for guiding through those years.



We were repeat offenders.. that was our status and you wanted us to cheat? SERIOUSLY?

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Anyone who fell asleep on a recruit's sofa during a visit probably couldn't have stayed awake long enough to introduce the bagman!*****

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Originally Posted by Coach007

\We were repeat offenders.. that was our status and you wanted us to cheat? SERIOUSLY?

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You can't read apparently cause I literally said "not saying we should have". The point is that the NCAA wasn't paying any attention to Croom so he coulda gotten away with murder if he wanted to. To praise him for not getting us in NCAA trouble while the NCAA doesn't give a 17 what he does is dumb praise.

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Originally Posted by Coach007

JWS's last 3 years, were horrible and resulted in MSU on probation. Never won more than 3 games. His last year we won only 2.

We lost to:

2003:
Tulane
Houston
Did not win a single SEC game

2002:

Lost every SEC game.

2001:

Lost to TROY St At HOME COMING


Again, this thread is about what Croom did right. Not him as a HC.

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Not to nitpick, but we did win a SEC game in 2003 over Jay Cutler and Vandy 30-21. I was there.

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Originally Posted by Coach007

No.. I will say it again. This thread is not about his record. This thread is not "Croom was a great HC". Learn to differentiate in what's being said.

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What? Differentiate what is being said.. Dude what is being said is your are a dumbass for thinking that Sly did jackshit anything but take millions for not a damn thing but bringing embarrassment to MSU.

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Originally Posted by Coach007

He also coached one of the best RBs in MSU history. He went pro too. Norwood.

Fact for you. JWS was losing to Bama for 3 years or more prior. THose were also during the dark ages for Bama. 2001, Bama won 4 sec games only. 2003 they only won 2 SEC games. And MS ST was NOT beating them then.

So again... Yes, Bama had a poor decade.. 2 Coaches during that time had a chance to set beating them in motion. Only Croom beat them.

I just read where Croom inherited the best talent etc... YET during Bama dark years, JWS could not take that talent and win?? But Croom could? Can't have it both ways.

So once again.. a team with player issues to the point that the alumni was pissed. Put us on Probation. 4 of Crooms 5 years was under probation.

Mississippi State's football program was placed on probation by the NCAA for four years, stripped of eight scholarships over the next two seasons. allowed just 81 football scholarships for the 2005 and 2006 seasons, and are limited to 45 expense-paid recruiting visits in each of the 2004-05 and 2005-06 academic years
-- 11 per year fewer than the maximum allowed by the NCAA. JWS had Ms ST considered a repeat offender because the school also lost 13 scholarships after an investigation in 1996.

There was a massive cloud over Ms St at that time. So yeah, recruiting was bad... But he still managed to get better classes than the previous year. And when that cloud/reductions/visits was lifted.... The recruiting got better.

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JWS beat some good Bama teams and Bama was up and down back then; he beat some ranked Bama teams and Bama won SEC in 1999. Yes they tanked at end of JWS years and during Croom years. JWS had a very, very talented freshman class that he left Croom - fact. As others mentioned, JWS had a wife battling cancer and had to take his brother off life support in those final years. He also had a bad JUCO group as well as some real bad assist coaches at the end did JWS in. JWS didn't have great talent on D.

The NCAA had an ax to grind; what was so bad that MSU did to deserve a 4 year punishment? Compared to outright cheating today, they owe us an apology and 10-15 scholarships on top of 85 today for the junk going on at other schools who get a free ride - Auburn, LSU, Bama, OleMiss, etc.

I have no clue what makes anyone say he is a good man. He was lazy, took millions to do a job poorly and then blamed anyone but himself when fired. I will admit I don’t know him personally but show me evidence he was good. I have not seen any to date. He still is bitter for getting fired for doing a horrible job and does not understand that he sucked as a head coach.

I supported him when he was our coach but he lost me at 3-2

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Originally Posted by tcdog70

What? Differentiate what is being said.. Dude what is being said is your are a dumbass for thinking that Sly did jackshit anything but take millions for not a damn thing but bringing embarrassment to MSU.

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The embarrassment were the things done that made us a repeat offender and put our program in the gutter. It's dumb for you to think otherwise.

I have no clue what makes anyone say he is a good man. He was lazy, took millions to do a job poorly and then blamed anyone but himself when fired. I will admit I don’t know him personally but show me evidence he was good. I have not seen any to date. He still is bitter for getting fired for doing a horrible job and does not understand that he sucked as a head coach.

I supported him when he was our coach but he lost me at 3-2

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JWS had a very, very talented freshman class that he left Croom - fact.

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A class does not make a team. You should know that from looking at the Mullen years. NEVER THE LESS JWS HAD THOSE 2 CLASSES for 2 years and won 5 games with them.

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He also had a bad JUCO group as well as some real bad assist coaches at the end did JWS in. JWS didn't have great talent on D.

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Wait, so we praise JWS (who is solely responsible for our repeat offender status) for having bad coaches, but knock Croom over it? We bash Croom over it being hard to recruit during the 4 years Ms ST was on probation with loss of post season play, scholarships, and visits but it's excusable for JWS?

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what was so bad that MSU did to deserve a 4 year punishment?

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I understand, but what does that have to do with the cloud that Croom stepped into?

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Compared to outright cheating today, they owe us an apology and 10-15 scholarships on top of 85 today for the junk going on at other schools who get a free ride - Auburn, LSU, Bama, OleMiss, etc.

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I can get on board with that.

croom was a breath of fresh air cuz it was something new for a period. thats it he sucked

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Originally Posted by Coach007

A class does not make a team. You should know that from looking at the Mullen years. NEVER THE LESS JWS HAD THOSE 2 CLASSES for 2 years and won 5 games with them.

Never said a class made a team, you are mixing my comments with others. But to say he had no talent as some have said is not true. Many parade all americans in that freshmen class that JWS left Croom, not as good as what Joe walked into for sure. No one is saying Croom had an easy job the first year or even two but the program ran off the cliff under his watch - 5 years of it. Greg Byrne was the best thing to happen to MSU when he came. He would not accept failure and demanded accountability. Crooms response on the special says it all. He didn't get enough time. He has no clue about coaching big time NCAA football. He had 5 years and hadn't improved anything.

JWS and Mullen both took what little talent they inherited from previous coaches and competed instantly. History speaks for it self.


Wait, so we praise JWS (who is solely responsible for our repeat offender status) for having bad coaches, but knock Croom over it? We bash Croom over it being hard to recruit during the 4 years Ms ST was on probation with loss of post season play, scholarships, and visits but it's excusable for JWS?

Who said we praised JWS for the last coaching hires? JWS had been at MSU for over a decade of success and winning. hard to keep it going and not have a bad hire or two. A lot of bad things happened at the same time in the end. Croom on the other hand stood by bad assistants and did not change one thing in 5 years. Apples and oranges.


I understand, but what does that have to do with the cloud that Croom stepped into? Everything because you were blaming JWS for it, For most teams what we did would not even get investigated much less any penalties. JWS got penalized because he was winning at MSU and it was an easy way to get him back. JWS had been at another big school, nothing would have happened.



I can get on board with that.

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Great we agree on something.

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Originally Posted by Hot Rock

I have no clue what makes anyone say he is a good man. He was lazy, took millions to do a job poorly and then blamed anyone but himself when fired. I will admit I don’t know him personally but show me evidence he was good. I have not seen any to date. He still is bitter for getting fired for doing a horrible job and does not understand that he sucked as a head coach.

I supported him when he was our coach but he lost me at 3-2

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This also, 3-2. Worse college game I have seen in 50 plus years at State! BTW, how many of you permanent officers of the Sly Croom Fan Club would hire he and Woody again? Again, why did bama, his alma mater, who actually had a spring practice award named after him, not hire him?