Favorite to land Tommy Stevens

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04-27-2019, 09:12 AM
Coach007

I'm going to say that KT will play a role in the Offense. We will see 2 QBs in the backfield....
04-27-2019, 09:14 AM
Todd4State

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ari Gold

If this kid can come in and win the job EVERYONE should be all in with this.
No knock on KT, if he beats him out then great

I will say this about the locker room. The way Mullen and the staff handled Fitz and Williams had that locker room divided. That’s a fact.
And like some have said in this thread , the courting of KB seemed to be a positive thing amongst the players.

I don't understand why anyone would be against it. It seems like more and more people are coming around. People can't say that he should adapt his offense to our players and then be mad when he's trying to bring on a player that fits his system because it may make some players unhappy.

If this was baseball and we needed another really good starting pitcher our fans would be all for it. It wouldn't be "But the team might get mad if Peyton Plumlee is bumped because of this guy."

I just don't understand the logic of our fans sometimes.
04-27-2019, 09:17 AM
Todd4State

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach007

I'm going to say that KT will play a role in the Offense. We will see 2 QBs in the backfield....

I think that's very likely. Joe likes to do that. See Tommy Stevens.
04-27-2019, 09:27 AM
Jarius

Quote:

Originally Posted by Todd4State

I don't understand why anyone would be against it. It seems like more and more people are coming around. People can't say that he should adapt his offense to our players and then be mad when he's trying to bring on a player that fits his system because it may make some players unhappy.

If this was baseball and we needed another really good starting pitcher our fans would be all for it. It wouldn't be "But the team might get mad if Peyton Plumlee is bumped because of this guy."

I just don't understand the logic of our fans sometimes.

There are a couple that have an eye rolling agenda that is very typical in 2019. Not everyone, but some.
04-27-2019, 09:35 AM
Coach007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Todd4State

I think that's very likely. Joe likes to do that. See Tommy Stevens.

It's something the current SEC has not seen a lot of either
04-27-2019, 09:38 AM
BiscuitEater

Quote:

Originally Posted by bulldawg28

Dan left the job unfinished. I'm convinced had he stayed we only lose to maybe Bama

Nope .. Not if he was spending all his time job hunting instead of actually coaching he wouldn't.
04-27-2019, 09:43 AM
TrapGame

Quote:

Originally Posted by gravedigger

That isnt true. The internet fanbase isnt indicative of the rest.

Digger, I know a dozen State fans that do not lurk on sites. They could not tell you the difference between Gene's, ED or 6pack. That Florida game had them spitting mad at Joe.
04-27-2019, 09:59 AM
the_real_MSU_is_us

Quote:

Originally Posted by BiscuitEater

Nope .. Not if he was spending all his time job hunting instead of actually coaching he wouldn't.

He wouldn't start job hunting till after he had secured an impressive season, ie if he had at most 1 loss entering the Bama game. After Bama, yeah he'd check out but this time I think the team was so good they'd still win out vs Arky and OM, so Dan's checking out wouldn't affect the regular season W-L total
04-27-2019, 10:19 AM
Relardo Sidney

Keytaon ain't no Peyton Plumlee is the problem. He's a tad bit better than that. If I thought KT was a back of the bench pitcher I wouldn't be bitching about Joe whoring out to the entire western hemisphere for a Qb.
04-27-2019, 10:37 AM
tcdog70

Damn, it is simple. If you can get a better player--then do it. Joe is here to win. If KT wants to play QB then be better than your competition..
04-27-2019, 10:41 AM
Relardo Sidney

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcdog70

Damn, it is simple. If you can get a better player--then do it. Joe is here to win. If KT wants to play QB then be better than your competition..

If you truly believe in someone and fully invest in them they tend to rise to meet your expectations. Joe doesn't get this. KT has all the tools needed to win games in the SEC.
04-27-2019, 10:51 AM
the_real_MSU_is_us

Quote:

Originally Posted by Relardo Sidney

Keytaon ain't no Peyton Plumlee is the problem. He's a tad bit better than that. If I thought KT was a back of the bench pitcher I wouldn't be bitching about Joe whoring out to the entire western hemisphere for a Qb.

We've seen absolutely nothing that says KT is good. He beat L'Ville, but had a mediocre at best stat line and it was McLaurins 3 INT's that won that game. He had great numbers vs SFA, but KT was late throwing the ball and SFA was literally leaving guys 15 yards open so that's not anything to read into. He looked lost in his small action against A&M, but that's not much data. Moorhead keeping Fitz in vs LSU when he was 4-19 with 3 INT's, so he didn't have much faith in KT at the time. Then Moorhead went after KB indicating he didn't have complete faith in KT to develop. Then KT put up bad numbers in spring camp, and now we're going after Stevens...

And that's it. That's all the data we have on KT either way. He's never had an impressive passing game, he's never put the team on his back and carried them to a victory, he's never made a run that wowed me like Fit'z did his first year as a starter or Dak does every 3rd game in the NFL. He may be a worldbeater and I really hope he is, but there's nothing to support that. We though he'd be one when he was a Fr, but there's no evidence since then to say he is. I don't know either way but the early returns aren't looking good for us honestly
04-27-2019, 11:20 AM
gravedigger

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrapGame

Digger, I know a dozen State fans that do not lurk on sites. They could not tell you the difference between Gene's, ED or 6pack. That Florida game had them spitting mad at Joe.

I realize that, but most people who have a closeup view of the team under Mullen know that his offense was not all that mentally challenging. Sort of a power spread, if you will. What Joe runs takes a more cerebral qb. Good route runners.

We lost to Florida for one reason. Dan and Grantham knew how to stop the only offensive weapon we had better than anyone. He knew exactly how Fitz would react in every situation.

Our success under a joe will depend on how he nationally attracts kids who are capable of getting their offensive assignments and keeping Bob Shoop or someone of his caliber running the defense.

Regular fans just want a bowl game and an egg bowl win. This is why last season wasn?t the disaster to them that it was to the message board hero?s.

My prediction is at some point in the season we realize the offense is very effective but low IQ kids, no matter how talented, won?t work in it. In the long run that is good news for MSU. It will remove us from the bidding wars in this state for marginal kids. But we will will be back in the running for an AJ Brown. We never were as long as Mullen was here. Mullen?s offense was the reason we couldn?t land wr recruits.

The bad news is that it will take Joe at least 1-2 more recruiting cycles to build it.

I?m glad Mullen did what he did, but I believe within the next two years we will be glad he moved on.
04-27-2019, 11:30 AM
Relardo Sidney

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_real_MSU_is_us

We've seen absolutely nothing that says KT is good. He beat L'Ville, but had a mediocre at best stat line and it was McLaurins 3 INT's that won that game. He had great numbers vs SFA, but KT was late throwing the ball and SFA was literally leaving guys 15 yards open so that's not anything to read into. He looked lost in his small action against A&M, but that's not much data. Moorhead keeping Fitz in vs LSU when he was 4-19 with 3 INT's, so he didn't have much faith in KT at the time. Then Moorhead went after KB indicating he didn't have complete faith in KT to develop. Then KT put up bad numbers in spring camp, and now we're going after Stevens...

And that's it. That's all the data we have on KT either way. He's never had an impressive passing game, he's never put the team on his back and carried them to a victory, he's never made a run that wowed me like Fit'z did his first year as a starter or Dak does every 3rd game in the NFL. He may be a worldbeater and I really hope he is, but there's nothing to support that. We though he'd be one when he was a Fr, but there's no evidence since then to say he is. I don't know either way but the early returns aren't looking good for us honestly

He was the Gatorade POY in Louisiana his senior year and he didn't get that award from just rushing. He's also set more than half a dozen MSU records already in the 3 games he's played in. Y'all would be fighting like hell if Joe was trying to bench Dak for his PSU boy well I'm doing the same for KT cause I think KT can be that good if he'd just be given a damn chance. Who gives a shit about a spring game performance. I haven't watched a spring game in over a decade because they are totally worthless.
04-27-2019, 12:26 PM
Coach007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Relardo Sidney

He was the Gatorade POY in Louisiana his senior year and he didn't get that award from just rushing. He's also set more than half a dozen MSU records already in the 3 games he's played in. Y'all would be fighting like hell if Joe was trying to bench Dak for his PSU boy well I'm doing the same for KT cause I think KT can be that good if he'd just be given a damn chance. Who gives a shit about a spring game performance. I haven't watched a spring game in over a decade because they are totally worthless.

Has been given a chance from the moment he stepped foot on campus. This isn't about a spring game. This is a collective body of work.

46%
6
%

No way around that. This offense won't work with that. It's not Joe's job to appease you. It's to win and to do so in the quickest amount of time. He has an opportunity to get a guy who has been in a system he designed for 3 years. He's 60+% passer and a runner. KT will be fine and will be the starter next year.
04-27-2019, 12:29 PM
Really Clark?

Quote:

Originally Posted by gravedigger

I realize that, but most people who have a closeup view of the team under Mullen know that his offense was not all that mentally challenging. Sort of a power spread, if you will. What Joe runs takes a more cerebral qb. Good route runners.

We lost to Florida for one reason. Dan and Grantham knew how to stop the only offensive weapon we had better than anyone. He knew exactly how Fitz would react in every situation.

Our success under a joe will depend on how he nationally attracts kids who are capable of getting their offensive assignments and keeping Bob Shoop or someone of his caliber running the defense.

Regular fans just want a bowl game and an egg bowl win. This is why last season wasn?t the disaster to them that it was to the message board hero?s.

My prediction is at some point in the season we realize the offense is very effective but low IQ kids, no matter how talented, won?t work in it. In the long run that is good news for MSU. It will remove us from the bidding wars in this state for marginal kids. But we will will be back in the running for an AJ Brown. We never were as long as Mullen was here. Mullen?s offense was the reason we couldn?t land wr recruits.

The bad news is that it will take Joe at least 1-2 more recruiting cycles to build it.

I?m glad Mullen did what he did, but I believe within the next two years we will be glad he moved on.

The offense we ran (or any offense at the time of AJ’s recruitment) wouldn’t have mattered. That was inconsequential to the “recruiting process” for him. Bama backed off him as well, for a reason
04-27-2019, 01:43 PM
bulldawg28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach007

Has been given a chance from the moment he stepped foot on campus. This isn't about a spring game. This is a collective body of work.

46%
6
%

No way around that. This offense won't work with that. It's not Joe's job to appease you. It's to win and to do so in the quickest amount of time. He has an opportunity to get a guy who has been in a system he designed for 3 years. He's 60+% passer and a runner. KT will be fine and will be the starter next year.

Stephens has completed like 20 passes total in 5 years. Penn state didn't even trust him to throw the ball so they turned him into an option Qb.
04-27-2019, 01:53 PM
Goldendawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by bulldawg28

Stephens has completed like 20 passes total in 5 years. Penn state didn't even trust him to throw the ball so they turned him into an option Qb.

This. But all of a sudden he can be an SEC QB in Jo's pass first, big play (hopefully), offense.
04-27-2019, 01:55 PM
TrapGame

Quote:

Originally Posted by Relardo Sidney

He was the Gatorade POY in Louisiana his senior year and he didn't get that award from just rushing. He's also set more than half a dozen MSU records already in the 3 games he's played in. Y'all would be fighting like hell if Joe was trying to bench Dak for his PSU boy well I'm doing the same for KT cause I think KT can be that good if he'd just be given a damn chance. Who gives a shit about a spring game performance. I haven't watched a spring game in over a decade because they are totally worthless.

If KT was as good as you think he is Joe would have put him in after Florida. Fitz being a 5th yr senior be damned.
04-27-2019, 02:05 PM
Jarius

Quote:

Originally Posted by Relardo Sidney

If you truly believe in someone and fully invest in them they tend to rise to meet your expectations. Joe doesn't get this. KT has all the tools needed to win games in the SEC.

Joe does not think you are correct. You are making this judgement on his recruiting profile and 3 games against absolute dog shit defenses where he threw for under 50 % completion % and lost to the worst defense in the country. Joe is making this decision based on his livelihood and seeing the kid every single day for the past year and a half. Do you really believe that you know more about our quarterback situation than one of the best offensive coordinators in college football? Are you that arrogant?
04-27-2019, 02:27 PM
MetEdDawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Relardo Sidney

He was the Gatorade POY in Louisiana his senior year and he didn't get that award from just rushing. He's also set more than half a dozen MSU records already in the 3 games he's played in. Y'all would be fighting like hell if Joe was trying to bench Dak for his PSU boy well I'm doing the same for KT cause I think KT can be that good if he'd just be given a damn chance. Who gives a shit about a spring game performance. I haven't watched a spring game in over a decade because they are totally worthless.

KT is in his 4th year of college. If you have to use him being a high school player of the year to bolster your argument of how good he is, that should tell you all you need to know about what he's actually done in college.

Dak and KT aren't even freaking comparable
04-27-2019, 02:33 PM
Goldendawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by MetEdDawg

KT is in his 4th year of college. If you have to use him being a high school player of the year to bolster your argument of how good he is, that should tell you all you need to know about what he's actually done in college.

Dak and KT aren't even freaking comparable

Stevens is in his 5th year of college with a lot of his very limited QB stats coming in the 4th quarter of blowout wins. Even if we get him, here's to hoping either KT or Stevens can have a break out year. If neither can or does, things on O don''t look good.
04-27-2019, 02:37 PM
msstate7

Quote:

Originally Posted by MetEdDawg

KT is in his 4th year of college. If you have to use him being a high school player of the year to bolster your argument of how good he is, that should tell you all you need to know about what he's actually done in college.

Dak and KT aren't even freaking comparable

Key is starting his 3rd year, but yeah, HS stuff is useless at this point
04-27-2019, 03:47 PM
Relardo Sidney

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jarius

You are making this judgement on his recruiting profile and 3 games against absolute dog shit defenses where he threw for under 50 % completion % and lost to the worst defense in the country.

In what world is it even remotely not disgusting to use the Fitz broken ankle game where KT was suddenly thrust into a game the opponent was intentionally spearing his ankles as grounds for not starting KT? Are you human?

Quote:

Originally Posted by MetEdDawg

Dak and KT aren't even freaking comparable

Freshman/Sophomore Dak & KT are absolutely comparable. Are you high? Dak didn't really become Dak till his junior year.
04-27-2019, 03:47 PM
Really Clark?

Quote:

Originally Posted by bulldawg28

Stephens has completed like 20 passes total in 5 years. Penn state didn't even trust him to throw the ball so they turned him into an option Qb.

Yeah it had nothing to do with them having an extremely good starting QB in McSorely. Heisman candidate at that. He sucks because he couldn?t oust him...got it. It was a close competition that McSorley eventually won over Stevens. It wasn?t like he sucked so bad they had no choice but to play McSorley and he just worked out for Penn St
04-27-2019, 03:49 PM
Relardo Sidney

Quote:

Originally Posted by Really Clark?

Yeah it had nothing to do with them having an extremely good starting QB in McSorely. Heisman candidate at that. He sucks because he couldn?t oust him...got it.

Sounds pretty similar to KT not being able to oust Fitz doesn't it?
04-27-2019, 03:50 PM
Really Clark?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Relardo Sidney

In what world is it even remotely not disgusting to use the Fitz broken ankle game where KT was suddenly thrust into a game the opponent was intentionally spearing his ankles as grounds for not starting KT? Are you human?

Freshman/Sophomore Dak & KT are absolutely comparable. Are you high? Dak didn't really become Dak till his junior year.

You need to re-read Dak’s soph stats if you think that is close to comparable. 2700-2800 total yards and 23 TD’s
04-27-2019, 03:52 PM
Really Clark?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Relardo Sidney

Sounds pretty similar to KT not being able to oust Fitz doesn't it?

Not even close. Not even in the same universe. You have no clue what you are talking about with that comparison
04-27-2019, 03:55 PM
Jarius

Quote:

Originally Posted by Relardo Sidney

In what world is it even remotely not disgusting to use the Fitz broken ankle game where KT was suddenly thrust into a game the opponent was intentionally spearing his ankles as grounds for not starting KT? Are you human?

Freshman/Sophomore Dak & KT are absolutely comparable. Are you high? Dak didn't really become Dak till his junior year.

In the world where you try to convince everyone that you have a better grasp on our quarterbacks than Joe Moorhead. When you make stupid arguments you get the fact that KT has done absolutely zero in actual football games to warrant this outrage over our head coach wanting a different quarterback thrown in your face.
04-27-2019, 04:31 PM
BuckyIsAB****

Quote:

Originally Posted by Relardo Sidney

I'm questioning Moorhead's ability to develop QBs right now with his hand constantly in the cookie jar searching for something else. Mullen could take nobodies and turn them into All-SEC types. I realize that's rare and very few can do that but damn if Joe doesn't even want to take on the challenge. Keytaon has plenty of tools to win a lot of games. Develop a damn playbook tailored for him and stop looking everywhere else for your solution at the QB position.

Yeah Relf, Tyson Lee, Russell were All SEC QBs
04-27-2019, 04:35 PM
BuckyIsAB****

Quote:

Originally Posted by gravedigger

I realize that, but most people who have a closeup view of the team under Mullen know that his offense was not all that mentally challenging. Sort of a power spread, if you will. What Joe runs takes a more cerebral qb. Good route runners.

We lost to Florida for one reason. Dan and Grantham knew how to stop the only offensive weapon we had better than anyone. He knew exactly how Fitz would react in every situation.

Our success under a joe will depend on how he nationally attracts kids who are capable of getting their offensive assignments and keeping Bob Shoop or someone of his caliber running the defense.

Regular fans just want a bowl game and an egg bowl win. This is why last season wasn?t the disaster to them that it was to the message board hero?s.

My prediction is at some point in the season we realize the offense is very effective but low IQ kids, no matter how talented, won?t work in it. In the long run that is good news for MSU. It will remove us from the bidding wars in this state for marginal kids. But we will will be back in the running for an AJ Brown. We never were as long as Mullen was here. Mullen?s offense was the reason we couldn?t land wr recruits.

The bad news is that it will take Joe at least 1-2 more recruiting cycles to build it.

I?m glad Mullen did what he did, but I believe within the next two years we will be glad he moved on.

It doesnt take high IQ kids to run this offense. It does take some football sense, but if you dont have football sense by your freshmen year in college you aint ever gonna
04-27-2019, 04:36 PM
Maroonthirteen

The difference in Mullen and Moorhead at this point in their careers at MSU.... is the fan base was starving for wins in Mullen’s first year.

I’m thinking ... it isn’t so much tinkering as Moorhead wants more....: mores production and more wins.
04-27-2019, 04:36 PM
BuckyIsAB****

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrapGame

If KT was as good as you think he is Joe would have put him in after Florida. Fitz being a 5th yr senior be damned.

Or in the bowl game after Fitz did his own thing 3 plays in a row on the goaline....or at LSU when he threw 50 interceptions. Moorhead put KT in at WR and RB. I love KT but that says a lot
04-27-2019, 05:35 PM
Relardo Sidney

Quote:

Originally Posted by Really Clark?

You need to re-read Dak’s soph stats if you think that is close to comparable. 2700-2800 total yards and 23 TD’s

KT has started 3 games. How bout you compare Dak's first 3 started games instead of using an entire season.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Really Clark?

Not even close. Not even in the same universe. You have no clue what you are talking about with that comparison

Oh so suddenly McSorley is miles better than Fitzgerald now huh

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jarius

In the world where you try to convince everyone that you have a better grasp on our quarterbacks than Joe Moorhead.

Typical Genespage response. Don't bother ever discussing anything on a message board cause the head coach always makes the best decisions cause head coach durrrr. Still a dick move to use KT's game vs Ole Miss as reason to not start him this season too btw and KT would have won that game had our DBs and Grantham learned how to cover anything thrown over 15 yards deep.
04-27-2019, 05:37 PM
Relardo Sidney

Quote:

Originally Posted by BuckyIsAB****

Or in the bowl game after Fitz did his own thing 3 plays in a row on the goaline....or at LSU when he threw 50 interceptions. Moorhead put KT in at WR and RB. I love KT but that says a lot

Or Moorhead just doesn't like KT. Wouldn't be the first coach to not play a player cause they don't like them. Mullen did it all the time. Remember the thread started by Swedenburg on this very thing.
04-27-2019, 06:01 PM
NCDawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Relardo Sidney

KT has started 3 games. How bout you compare Dak's first 3 started games instead of using an entire season.

Oh so suddenly McSorley is miles better than Fitzgerald now huh

Typical Genespage response. Don't bother ever discussing anything on a message board cause the head coach always makes the best decisions cause head coach durrrr. Still a dick move to use KT's game vs Ole Miss as reason to not start him this season too btw and KT would have won that game had our DBs and Grantham learned how to cover anything thrown over 15 yards deep.

You're probably right about the Ole Miss game and Grantham's defense. I would add also we would have probably won if one of our LB's had made a better effort to tackle their RB who ran right by him twice for 2 TD's.
04-27-2019, 06:04 PM
Really Clark?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Relardo Sidney

KT has started 3 games. How bout you compare Dak's first 3 started games instead of using an entire season.

Oh so suddenly McSorley is miles better than Fitzgerald now huh

Typical Genespage response. Don't bother ever discussing anything on a message board cause the head coach always makes the best decisions cause head coach durrrr. Still a dick move to use KT's game vs Ole Miss as reason to not start him this season too btw and KT would have won that game had our DBs and Grantham learned how to cover anything thrown over 15 yards deep.

Uh...I’ve always thought McSorley was better. Don’t know who you are addressing.

You were the one who shot off about the entire Freshman/Soph comparison between Dak and KT. Dont try to change the criteria when you looked foolish
04-27-2019, 07:16 PM
Relardo Sidney

Quote:

Originally Posted by Really Clark?

Uh...I’ve always thought McSorley was better. Don’t know who you are addressing.

You were the one who shot off about the entire Freshman/Soph comparison between Dak and KT. Dont try to change the criteria when you looked foolish

Sorry but I disagree that McSorley is better than Fitzgerald but even if he is it's not like he's miles better so the comparison between Stevens situation and KT's is actually quite similar. How do you not see that? And I'm not changing the criteria at all you are by comparing an entire season vs 3 games. That's not a comparison. That's like comparing Rooker's entire last season to Rowdey's first 12 games of this season.
04-27-2019, 08:05 PM
Really Clark?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Relardo Sidney

Sorry but I disagree that McSorley is better than Fitzgerald but even if he is it's not like he's miles better so the comparison between Stevens situation and KT's is actually quite similar. How do you not see that? And I'm not changing the criteria at all you are by comparing an entire season vs 3 games. That's not a comparison. That's like comparing Rooker's entire last season to Rowdey's first 12 games of this season.

You specifically said KT’s Freshman and Soph YEARS are comparable to Dak’s. Not his first 3 starts (which he hasn’t even had) vs Dak’s first 3 starts. That is the definition of changing the criteria after trying and failing to make a point.

Doesn’t matter that you don’t think McSorley wasn’t any better than Fitz, experts, early Heisman pundits, Vegas, the draft, they all disagree with you
04-27-2019, 08:18 PM
bulldawg28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Really Clark?

Yeah it had nothing to do with them having an extremely good starting QB in McSorely. Heisman candidate at that. He sucks because he couldn?t oust him...got it. It was a close competition that McSorley eventually won over Stevens. It wasn?t like he sucked so bad they had no choice but to play McSorley and he just worked out for Penn St

You're making excuses. The dude has not shown he can pass or be a starter. He had a chance to beat out McSorely and couldn't. This spring he couldn't even beat out the current Qb after McSorely graduated hence the reason he's transferring. What are you looking at?

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