Sankey?s Letter in the gun law.....

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02-08-2018, 08:13 PM
Liverpooldawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg

There are not a lot of people drinking before and during their optometrist appointment. There are also not thousands of fans of rival optometrists crammed in close quarters in that office who are rabidly supporting their favorite Doc. It's not remotely the same situation. What happens when a drunk goes after a carrier with a cowbell? What happens if a drunk starts winning a fight with a carrier in a big way? I've just seen too much crap at games from otherwise responsible people. However you feel about this is beside the point though. I didn't start this thread to start a debate about gun rights. I started it to point out that if this bill passes as is then at the least we will play every SEC game on the road. I suspect most other teams and leagues would do the same to us. We very easily could get kicked out of the SEC and find that no one would take us or play us. THAT is the choice here. If you are cool with that then by all means support this bill.

And a point of order: Sankey wasnt talking about post season stuff like the NCAA, he was talking about regular season games. I kind of like having home games.
02-08-2018, 08:14 PM
starkvegasdawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg

There are not a lot of people drinking before and during their optometrist appointment. There are also not thousands of fans of rival optometrists crammed in close quarters in that office who are rabidly supporting their favorite Doc. It's not remotely the same situation. What happens when a drunk goes after a carrier with a cowbell? What happens if a drunk starts winning a fight with a carrier in a big way? I've just seen too much crap at games from otherwise responsible people. However you feel about this is beside the point though. I didn't start this thread to start a debate about gun rights. I started it to point out that if this bill passes as is then at the least we will play every SEC game on the road. I suspect most other teams and leagues would do the same to us. We very easily could get kicked out of the SEC and find that no one would take us or play us. THAT is the choice here. If you are cool with that then by all means support this bill.

Again, this bill changes no law. What you are opposed of has been legal for 7 years and nobody has been kicked out of the SEC. It is right now perfectly legal to bring a gun into DWS if you have an enhanced permit.
02-08-2018, 08:16 PM
Liverpooldawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by starkvegasdawg34

It?s a very real risk I admit. And an enhanced carry license offers no legal or civil protection if you shoot an innocent person. We had that drilled into us in our class. Drawing a weapon is an act of absolute last resort because there?s no unpulling the trigger. But if put in that situation, I?d rather have the ability to try and protect my wife and children or someone else?s wife and kids instead of standing there helpless watching them die.

So if you are that scared why do you even want to go to a game? A piece of advice, don't go to Europe.
02-08-2018, 08:17 PM
Liverpooldawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by starkvegasdawg34

Again, this bill changes no law. What you are opposed of has been legal for 7 years and nobody has been kicked out of the SEC. It is right now perfectly legal to bring a gun into DWS if you have an enhanced permit.

And it's also perfectly legal for MSU to set it's own rules and deny you entry. That's what this bill will change.
02-08-2018, 08:20 PM
starkvegasdawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg

And it's also perfectly legal for MSU to set it's own rules and deny you entry. That's what this bill will change.

You can?t set rules contrary to law. Can they decide to serve alcohol and make the drinking age 16?
02-08-2018, 08:21 PM
starkvegasdawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg

So if you are that scared why do you even want to go to a game? A piece of advice, don't go to Europe.

I didn?t say I?m scared and I?ve never carried in a game. I?m just saying it?s been legal since 2011.
02-08-2018, 08:22 PM
Liverpooldawg

One more time and to the point: If you do not care whether MSU can play at home, or even play, then by all means support this bill. If you do care, then ask your legislator to amend the bill to allow stadiums and arenas, at least at the universities and colleges, to not allow guns. The SEC is serious, ask Arkansas. They provided for this exception in their law similar to this after the SEC sent them this same ultimatum. That's why I started this thread, to point out the choice we face.
02-08-2018, 08:23 PM
Liverpooldawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by starkvegasdawg34

You can?t set rules contrary to law. Can they decide to serve alcohol and make the drinking age 16?

That's just it, setting that rule is not against the law.
02-08-2018, 08:24 PM
BeardoMSU

Quote:

Originally Posted by RocketDawg

Nah. Only winning by 26 at the moment.

Now it's 42....yikes
02-08-2018, 08:25 PM
Liverpooldawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by starkvegasdawg34

I didn?t say I?m scared and I?ve never carried in a game. I?m just saying it?s been legal since 2011.

It's legal, but it is also against the rules and terms of your ticket you agreed to when you bought it. That IS also legal. You don't have aright to attend a game. You won't get arrested, but you will and should be denied entry.
02-08-2018, 08:27 PM
BrunswickDawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by RougeDawg

Your interpretation of Scalia?s opinion means you believe that law enforcement cannot carry in these areas as well? Correct?

This state law is simply saying that off duty enforcement and their citizen equivalents can carry in these places. You can?t have it both ways, and I?m still waiting f for someone to tell me the difference in a police office who gets off st 5 pm, from 4:59 pm to 5:01 pm? What changes so much about that person that they are now denied the ability to carry their firearm into an area 2 minutes before they could? This is the the law in its simplest form.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RougeDawg

Dude. Just stop and please fix your bing or google. Jefferson and others wrote in depth about this very argument aside from constitution. They didn?t even develop the idea. The idea came from the John Locke?s, Adam Smith?s and other great philosophers before them, who believed we all had unalienable rights granted to us by being born in The image of God that no government could take away. That was the founding of our consorititiin and one of those God given human rights is the ability for one to defend themselves.

First - I was not implying that law enforcement couldn?t carry off duty. You are inserting your opinion into a factual statement - Scalia believed in limitations to the 2nd amendment that applied to types of guns that should be available to general citizens and the ability to exclude some classes from ownership (such as felons and the mentally ill). I didn?t draw any conclusions - I only pointed out how jntersting it is that the foremost conservative strict constitutionalist had that view.

Second, I?m well aware of Locke, Smith, and the basis of the thought behind different elements of the constitution - I?ve got 2 degrees in history with my masters in Colonial American history. Forgive me for not writing a dissertation on my message board post. My username isn?t Todd4State, so I try not to do that. Yes, self protection was part of the basis for the 2nd amendment - however read the amendment. It literally ties the need for self protection to the need of the government to raise a militia. Self defense and the common defense of the nation. My point is just as valid.
02-08-2018, 08:33 PM
starkvegasdawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg

That's just it, setting that rule is not against the law.

Yes it is. The AG has said MS law allows for carry in stadiums. It has been the law since 2011.
02-08-2018, 08:33 PM
Liverpooldawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg

First - I was not implying that law enforcement couldn?t carry off duty. You are inserting your opinion into a factual statement - Scalia believed in limitations to the 2nd amendment that applied to types of guns that should be available to general citizens and the ability to exclude some classes from ownership (such as felons and the mentally ill). I didn?t draw any conclusions - I only pointed out how jntersting it is that the foremost conservative strict constitutionalist had that view.

Second, I?m well aware of Locke, Smith, and the basis of the thought behind different elements of the constitution - I?ve got 2 degrees in history with my masters in Colonial American history. Forgive me for not writing a dissertation on my message board post. My username isn?t Todd4State, so I try not to do that. Yes, self protection was part of the basis for the 2nd amendment - however read the amendment. It literally ties the need for self protection to the need of the government to raise a militia. Self defense and the common defense of the nation. My point is just as valid.

I'm as conservative as Scalia, and I agree with his opinions on this.
02-08-2018, 08:34 PM
BeardoMSU

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg

First - I was not implying that law enforcement couldn?t carry off duty. You are inserting your opinion into a factual statement - Scalia believed in limitations to the 2nd amendment that applied to types of guns that should be available to general citizens and the ability to exclude some classes from ownership (such as felons and the mentally ill). I didn?t draw any conclusions - I only pointed out how jntersting it is that the foremost conservative strict constitutionalist had that view.

Second, I?m well aware of Locke, Smith, and the basis of the thought behind different elements of the constitution - I?ve got 2 degrees in history with my masters in Colonial American history. Forgive me for not writing a dissertation on my message board post. My username isn?t Todd4State, so I try not to do that. Yes, self protection was part of the basis for the 2nd amendment - however read the amendment. It literally ties the need for self protection to the need of the government to raise a militia. Self defense and the common defense of the nation. My point is just as valid.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to BrunswickDawg again.
02-08-2018, 08:39 PM
Liverpooldawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by starkvegasdawg34

Yes it is. The AG has said MS law allows for carry in stadiums. It has been the law since 2011.

It is, but it's also legal for a stadium to set its own rules against it. They won't arrest you and can't, but they can eject you from the stadium. It's not illegal to be a total jerk at a game either, but it it can get you thrown out. I almost got thrown out up at Oxford for throwing a cup when I was a student . That sure as heck ain't illegal, but it will get you thrown out. I may have missed my calling, I talked my way out of it like a public defender!) I even had a enhanced carry instructor tell me that individual venues can set their own rules, fairly recently. He knew what he was talking about. If t wasn't ok to deny entry then this bill would never have come up since that is EXACTLY what it is trying to change.
02-08-2018, 08:40 PM
Dawg61

Similar stance was taken by Sankey towards Arkansas last year I believe. Arkansas just made it so you can't bring the guns into the stadiums. Issue was solved. Sankey isn't threatening kicking MSU/OM out he is warning us that other conferences won't travel here because of this rule. We should listen to him and follow Arkansas' lead on this same exact issue they already dealt with.
02-08-2018, 08:41 PM
Liverpooldawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg

One more time and to the point: If you do not care whether MSU can play at home, or even play, then by all means support this bill. If you do care, then ask your legislator to amend the bill to allow stadiums and arenas, at least at the universities and colleges, to not allow guns. The SEC is serious, ask Arkansas. They provided for this exception in their law similar to this after the SEC sent them this same ultimatum. That's why I started this thread, to point out the choice we face.

Still no takes in this I see. You can argue second amendment all you want, but the SEC can still kick us out or refuse to play in Mississippi if they want to. Mississippi law can't change that at all.
02-08-2018, 08:41 PM
Commercecomet24

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeardoMSU

Now it's 42....yikes

48 point win, but dang we didn?t hit 100! Running suicides after the game for not breaking100 lol
02-08-2018, 08:41 PM
RocketDawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by starkvegasdawg34

You can?t set rules contrary to law. Can they decide to serve alcohol and make the drinking age 16?

No, but they might as well since they look the other way. And openly allow "premium" seat to stock their lockers the day before a game.
02-08-2018, 08:44 PM
Liverpooldawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dawg61

Similar stance was taken by Sankey towards Arkansas last year I believe. Arkansas just made it so you can't bring the guns into the stadiums. Issue was solved. Sankey isn't threatening kicking MSU/OM out he is warning us that other conferences won't travel here because of this rule. We should listen to him and follow Arkansas' lead on this same exact issue they already dealt with.

I agree that's all we need to do, but read the letter 61. He wasn't talking about other conferences, he was talking about SEC members refusing to play here. That is explicit in the letter. It also sounded like a veiled threat to our memebership, to me anyway.
02-08-2018, 08:44 PM
BrunswickDawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg

I'm as conservative as Scalia, and I agree with his opinions on this.

And I?m a gun owner who enjoys shooting, and has taught his children to shoot,who is somewhere to the left of Bernie Sanders, and I do as well. You want a concealed carry permit, there should be licensing, training, and qualifications. You want enhanced cc, then that level of training needs to be at a very high level - boarderline professional. You want to collect and shoot military grade weapons - then you need all of that, secure storage, and insurance. I?d bet most of you have similar opinions. Letting ALEC and the NRA push us into guns, guns everywhere is just as bad as many liberals push to take them away.
02-08-2018, 08:52 PM
starkvegasdawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg

It is, but it's also legal for a stadium to set its own rules against it. They won't arrest you and can't, but they can eject you from the stadium. It's not illegal to be a total jerk at a game either, but it it can get you thrown out. I almost got thrown out up at Oxford for throwing a cup when I was a student . That sure as heck ain't illegal, but it will get you thrown out. I may have missed my calling, I talked my way out of it like a public defender!) I even had a enhanced carry instructor tell me that individual venues can set their own rules, fairly recently. He knew what he was talking about. If t wasn't ok to deny entry then this bill would never have come up since that is EXACTLY what it is trying to change.

No business or entity can set policy contrary to existing law. Back to my example, if a business or stadium could do that then Keenum could decide to set policy at DWS that they will sell alcohol and to maximize profits they?ll set the drinking age at the game at 16.

To your example, throwing a cup could be considered assault or disturbing the peace.

All this bill is doing is allowing enhanced carriers a legal recourse if they were denied to do what they are legally guaranteed to do. They stated multiple times this bill does not change the law.
02-08-2018, 08:57 PM
Dawg61

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg

I agree that's all we need to do, but read the letter 61. He wasn't talking about other conferences, he was talking about SEC members refusing to play here. That is explicit in the letter. It also sounded like a veiled threat to our memebership, to me anyway.

You're getting yourself riled up over something that will be worked out long before it would ever get close to MSU getting kicked out of the SEC. Here read this thread it'll calm your tits.

https://www.secrant.com/rant/sec-foo...pass/75314754/
02-08-2018, 08:58 PM
Spiderman

Quote:

Originally Posted by LC Dawg

I think this is an extremely dumb idea for many reasons but I don't carry so I don't study the numbers. Out of curiosity what is a guess at the number of enhanced carry license holders that would be in Davis Wade during an SEC game?

I have been since it became law.

This isn't NEW... everyone needs to understand that
02-08-2018, 09:00 PM
Liverpooldawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg

And I?m a gun owner who enjoys shooting, and has taught his children to shoot,who is somewhere to the left of Bernie Sanders, and I do as well. You want a concealed carry permit, there should be licensing, training, and qualifications. You want enhanced cc, then that level of training needs to be at a very high level - boarderline professional. You want to collect and shoot military grade weapons - then you need all of that, secure storage, and insurance. I?d bet most of you have similar opinions. Letting ALEC and the NRA push us into guns, guns everywhere is just as bad as many liberals push to take them away.

Very sensible.
02-08-2018, 09:00 PM
Liverpooldawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dawg61

You're getting yourself riled up over something that will be worked out long before it would ever get close to MSU getting kicked out of the SEC. Here read this thread it'll calm your tits.

https://www.secrant.com/rant/sec-foo...pass/75314754/

I agree it will, but it won't if we don't voice opposition to it as is. I think you would agree with that.
02-08-2018, 09:03 PM
Liverpooldawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spiderman

I have been since it became law.

This isn't NEW... everyone needs to understand that

Then you are in violation of the terms of the contract that your ticket is. MSU could sue YOU.
02-08-2018, 09:03 PM
Spiderman

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pollodawg

You have no need for a weapon in a sporting event or courthouse. Sorry.

Soory, you are wrong
02-08-2018, 09:05 PM
Liverpooldawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spiderman

Soory, you are wrong

So what is your need, esp at a guarded courthouse with metal detectors? If I was a judge I would resign if this passes. I suspect many will.
02-08-2018, 09:07 PM
Spiderman

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg

Then you are in violation of the terms of the contract that your ticket is. MSU could sue YOU.

No they can't, if they frisked me and found the weapon, all they can do is ask me to leave.
02-08-2018, 09:10 PM
Dolphus Raymond

The fact that our "leaders" are even considering such moronic legislation says all that really needs to be said about why Mississippi continues to be mired in economic and social backwardness. Mississippi allows itself to be victimized by poor leadership, while we continue to allow, and even encourage it. There is really nothing else that needs to be said. Pathetic.
02-08-2018, 09:11 PM
Liverpooldawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spiderman

No they can't, if they frisked me and found the weapon, all they can do is ask me to leave.

If you got in the stadium you would be in breach of contract. They would ask you to leave, and force you to if you refused. And if you had to be forced then they COULD prosecute you.
02-08-2018, 09:15 PM
BrunswickDawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dolphus Raymond

The fact that our "leaders" are even considering such moronic legislation says all that really needs to be said about why Mississippi continues to be mired in economic and social backwardness. Mississippi allows itself to be victimized by poor leadership, while we continue to allow, and even encourage it. There is really nothing else that needs to be said. Pathetic.

I guarantee they won?t let you bring your gun into the Capitol Building, because they should be secure...
02-08-2018, 09:17 PM
Liverpooldawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by starkvegasdawg34

No business or entity can set policy contrary to existing law. Back to my example, if a business or stadium could do that then Keenum could decide to set policy at DWS that they will sell alcohol and to maximize profits they?ll set the drinking age at the game at 16.

To your example, throwing a cup could be considered assault or disturbing the peace.

All this bill is doing is allowing enhanced carriers a legal recourse if they were denied to do what they are legally guaranteed to do. They stated multiple times this bill does not change the law.

It DOES change the law. It effectively removes the rihpght of businesses and others to set their own rules for attendance. The courts have repeatedly said that governments and private entities DO have the right to regulate firearms in a reasonable manner. If this passes it will be challenged in federal court by MSU and Ole Miss and numerous private entities. They WILL win. It's stupid and foolish, and ultimately futile.
02-08-2018, 09:19 PM
Spiderman

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg

If you got in the stadium you would be in breach of contract. They would ask you to leave, and force you to if you refused. And if you had to be forced then they COULD prosecute you.

I wouldn't refuse.

But I'd still not be in violation of state law, unlike everyone who smuggles in whiskey, or has it delivered to the club level and skyboxes
02-08-2018, 09:20 PM
Spiderman

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg

I guarantee they won?t let you bring your gun into the Capitol Building, because they should be secure...

Wrong, I have. Just can't carry it into the floor while in session
02-08-2018, 09:23 PM
BrunswickDawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spiderman

Wrong, I have. Just can't carry it into the floor while in session

That?s surprising. Georgia Legislature made them legal on campus, but banned them from the Capitol in the same bill. They don?t believe in irony.
02-08-2018, 09:26 PM
Spiderman

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg

That?s surprising. Georgia Legislature made them legal on campus, but banned them from the Capitol in the same bill. They don?t believe in irony.

Read the law, it's been there for years, everybody is wigging out because most just now realize it's been law.

All this is gonna do now is slow down the lines to get in the stadium because they will now probaly start frisking everybody.

and there is a major difference in a concealed carry permit and the Enhanced permit. Only pertains to EC's
02-08-2018, 09:27 PM
Liverpooldawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg

I guarantee they won?t let you bring your gun into the Capitol Building, because they should be secure...

Actually there was a Democratic Senator brandishing an unloaded one on the Senate floor this morning.
02-08-2018, 09:29 PM
Liverpooldawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spiderman

I wouldn't refuse.

But I'd still not be in violation of state law, unlike everyone who smuggles in whiskey, or has it delivered to the club level and skyboxes

But you would be in violation of your contract, and one everybody is serious about, unlike the alcholol rules.

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