This makes too much senseQuote:
Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg
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This makes too much senseQuote:
Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cary Hudson's little bro
Speaking of fishing in the deep water...appears we've offered OLB Avery Huff from STA. Any insight on this offer?
https://twitter.com/Averyhuff9/statu...35434531819520
https://247sports.com/college/missis...hool-115029095
Looks like Bama is moving in on Pickering.
RelaxQuote:
Originally Posted by Bothrops
Other offers Alabama, Louisville & Miami.Quote:
Originally Posted by Perpetual Underachiever
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg
I get it. Because it's a kid that committed to OM you want there to be some conspiracy around his ranking. But the reality is this exact situation has happened on our end several times.
MSU/OM get a commit from an unranked kid. Paul/David submit their ranking request and suggesting to the national guys, they get an initial ranking usually within 24 hours.
85-88 is the wheelhouse for where these kids are usually ranked upon initial review.
My problem is they consistently still rank our guys way too low and it hurts our rankings. I'm not sure how many 8-9 win seasons we have to have before they realize that we're not some flash in the pan program.Quote:
Originally Posted by jumbo
I don't know what the solution is.
Ignoring is the solution. Analyst recruiting opinions do not win football games. You also also win nothing by recruiting rankings. The measure is do you trust the coaches evaluation? You don't get a trophy for recruiting rankings.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
Rankings are based on money, not talent. Plus, those guys can’t determine talent any better than the average fan. I mean, they let people like Shurbutt rank guys. It’s all a scam to get your $10+ a month. Not a lot different than that bullshit NSR recruiting crap.
I agree to a degree in that is how it "should be" but the fact of the matter is people like Ole Miss use the rankings to rally support even after they go 2-10 and that perception helps their program. And I guarantee you that if our rankings were good on paper it would help our perception and program too. It's just that MSU hasn't really gotten into it. Mainly because of Dan.Quote:
Originally Posted by bulldawg28
ThisQuote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
Only people that haven't paid attention or live in some college football utopia still say that recruiting rankings don't matter. They do. They build the perception & in many cases the statistical profile & define the ceiling of your program.
Exactly. And if you go look at recruiting rankings there is absolutely a correlation to performance and rankings. I think people just like to say they don?t matter to try and justify where we have finished in the past.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg
Now have we overperformed against our recruiting ranking? Probably so. But the data very clearly shows that unless you are Top 10 in recruiting at least every other year with a consistent Top 15, you aren?t going to make the playoffs. We have gotten close, but more talent would help. What would happen if we pulled in a kid like Simmons every year? Can?t tell me we wouldn?t be better and have more chances to win games we typically lose. If you?ve got better players, you win more frequently plain and simple. Coaching does matter, but very rarely anymore do you see teams with a lot of talent have awful coaching. They go hand in hand more than they ever have before.
I think there's a correlation but I also think the correlation comes from the teams then rankings not the other way around. The top 50-100 kids are easy to spot they stick out like a sore thumb. After that it gets tough. Well what's the easiest way to rank them well who are the top schools offering/committing? Oh he has a legit Bama offer? Move him up if he's good enough for Saban he has to be a top prospect. Ohio St took his commitment? Move him up because Urban isn't just taking anybody. People have to remember recruiting sites are entertainment these aren't "experts". If they were they would already be on Saban staff. You're paying for entertainment not exact rankings.
Nah. Outside the top handful of teams, nobody knows where the rest rank in recruiting. You don't see FL or LSU beating their chests for finishing in the teens in recruiting. Recruiting rankings are fools gold. Hell, AL isn't even happy with a top 10 class. It's not the rankings that help teams. It's the marketing of those teams as a whole and the school. You get way more bump out of winning games than recruiting rankings.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg
I disagree. It's great message board discussion and highschool player ego's. Outside of that it's pointlessQuote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
2019 Early Big board coming soon. Will get up with my guys and contacts before spring ball cranks up.
True, but they go hand in hand. If you don't have the top recruits, it's virtually impossible to win on a consistent basis. You can have a couple years or in a one game setting like UCF you can beat a big time team. But consistently the best teams have the best talent and that's why they win games.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooterpoot
Awesome! I'm ready for this thread to get back to recruits names and rumors about said recruits. There's too much garbage being posted in this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ari Gold
Now this is the truth.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ifyouonlyknew
Which is why I said outside of the top handful of teams. Because those teams are getting the top talent every year almost no matter what. And those kids could be rated by a blind man.Quote:
Originally Posted by MetEdDawg
Absolutely right!Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooterpoot
I subscribe to 247 because those guys bring me good information about who MSU is recruiting. I generally look at who has offered these kids to determine their quality. It is a good source of this info because those guys are in it everyday. Otherwise I would have no reliable source of this information. It is well worth the $10/mo.Quote:
Originally Posted by bulldawg28
Here's the deal guys, recruiting rankings absolutely matter. If you can get your head out of your ass long enough to check the stats, they 100% matter. In the SEC, the team with more talent on paper wins like 80% of the time per Dave Bartoo. Nationally, in the recruiting ranking era, you can't win a national championship (nor SEC championship) if you don't have 50% or more of your teams roster made up of 4 and 5 star recruits. Not signing a top 5, 10, 15 class doesn't mean you can't be relatively good and win 7-9 games. It doesn't mean you're going to lose to every team that is more talented than you. If just means, if you have championship aspirations, you HAVE to recruit at a championship level. Here's some more info on the subject if you want to educate yourselves: https://www.footballstudyhall.com/20...rankings-right
Where people have problems for example at the end of the day on signing day BAMA was number nine. Then the next morning they were number seven. The total number of recruits stayed the same. It just made me think that these recruiting service recalculate and do what they need to in order to make the larger group of followers happy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pipedream
Also Tenn, Florida and A&M have up to this year have been in the top 8 and you see what they got them.
Well obviously you need a combination of good coaching and facilities to go with the recruiting rankings. I don't think the argument is that all programs who rank top 8 in recruiting will be top 8 football programs, but to win a natty you must be top 10 recruiting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Lambert
It would be interesting if someone had the recruit rankings for each championship team before each player committed and post. I certainly believe you have to have great players to win championships, but I think the recruiting sites adjust player ratings after the original rating. Ie ... If player A is getting recruited to bama, he gets a bump. By doing this, the sites help themselves with the above info you stated. With that said, I want to get as many 4 and 5 stars as we can getQuote:
Originally Posted by Pipedream
ETA... the last 12 natties breakdown like this: 5 by saban, 3 by urban, 1 by miles, 1 by chizik, 1 by jimbo, and 1 by dabo. Whoever broke down the info in your post, could have just said if you want a natty hire urban or saban.
247 used to have a graph on a players profile that would track their rankings
I dunno if recruiting services cater to select programs... and I dunno if players outside top ~200 are accurately rated...
But, I do know this:
A. These are the most successful SEC teams:
1) Alabama
2) LSU
3) UGA
4) Auburn
5) Florida
and,
B. These are the most successful SEC teams:
1) Alabama
2) LSU
3) UGA
4) Florida
5) Auburn
note: Data is based on Regular Season SEC wins and Average 247 Recruiting Ranking years 2015-2017
Bonus Fact: Mizzou and Vandy recruited the worst, and won the least.
Florida has 23 (10, 9, 4) wins from 2015-2017. State has 24 (9, 6, 9) from 2015-2017. Georgia won more games than LSU during that periodQuote:
Originally Posted by TUSK
Win totals were based on SEC Competition, only.... It's not statistically reliable if OOC games are included, IMO...Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
I do appreciate fact checking me, though... Thanks!
Kinda surprised by OM recruiting so far. I really thought they would be going all in again, but so far it does not appear to be the case. They have 8 commits with the highest rated most certainly going mlb and 5 commits with no other sec offers. Throw out ealy (doubtful they get him anyway) and their avg per recruit is .8602.
They have plenty of timeQuote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
Yes, they do. Just surprised they are filling up so quickly with players that are not highly rated. Players could be outstanding for all I know, but not really OM styleQuote:
Originally Posted by vv83
Matt Luke cleaning up the program*********Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
They don't mind dumping them if better comes along.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
They're not about to dump a bunch of instate kids.Quote:
Originally Posted by msbulldog
Betcha IYOK.
They cannot just go back to doing business as usual. Getting caught again in the repeat offender window would be a disaster.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
I don't think that will stop them.Quote:
Originally Posted by sandwolf
From the other thread, 4* Donte Starks is visiting this week
https://247sports.com/Player/Donte-Starks-45573479