Babe 17ing Ruth---

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Originally Posted by Commercecomet24

The specialist part i agree with. But there were just as many if not more 90+ throwers in Ruth?s era as bonds.

And Ruth didn?t have the steroids/hgh help.

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Thank you. Walter Johnson says hello.

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Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg

Here is what makes Babe Ruth stand out above any other player, ever, in baseball.

He single handedly transformed the sport. Everything about the game was changed because of what Ruth was doing. He showed that offense and power was the future. To capitalize on what Ruth was doing, they changed rules, the ball, changed the size of ball parks, and the philosophy of how the game should be played, all to focus on Home Runs. Name another player - in any sport - that has had that type of an impact on the sport.

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That rocks sir. Pretty much sums up my original intent of the thread. Gracias.

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Originally Posted by Bully13

Thank you. Walter Johnson says hello.

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Yep the Big Train! Smokey Joe Wood, Addie Joss, Iron Joe Mcginnity, Cy Young, the list could go on forever of flame throwers from that era(although Hubbell was more know for his screwball).

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Originally Posted by Commercecomet24

Yep the Big Train! Smokey Joe Wood, Addie Joss, Iron Joe Mcginnity, Cy Young, the list could go on forever of flame throwers from that era(although Hubbell was more know for his screwball).

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Yeah- Cy Young got his nickname (Cyclone) becasue his fastball broke wooden boards at baseball stadiums. I've been trying for years to try to translate how fast that would be since Thomas Edison was too lazy to invent the radar gun in 1890.**

Yeah but there was only a handful of hard throwers back then. Plus Cy Young pitched every other day- so there is no way he had that fastball every time out

Players were smaller and didn’t train like today.

Ruth was the most dominant player of any era- there is no doubt about it. If he would have kept pitching he could have been a 300 game winner. Just amazing to be that dominant

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

Yeah- Cy Young got his nickname (Cyclone) becasue his fastball broke wooden boards at baseball stadiums. I've been trying for years to try to translate how fast that would be since Thomas Edison was too lazy to invent the radar gun in 1890.**

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Lol it sure would cool to know exactly how hard they threw but if you play coach and watch enough Baseball you can tell how hard someone?s throwing.

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Originally Posted by Commercecomet24

You?re Right about all that, Brunswick. Very good comparison to Bo. He really was genuinely a 5 tool guy. He hit more hrs over 600 feet than anyone that ever played. Lol there?s a whole website dedicated to it. Most folks don?t know but he was the number 1 RB recruit in the country and was committed to play at Oklahoma. He was the ultimate of power,speed and arm. Just a shame that the injuries and partying cost him so much. And he played through a ton of those injuries. I don?t think he ever took the field 100% healthy after his rookie year.

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Damn good post. The Mick kicked ass. Gracias senior.

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Originally Posted by Commercecomet24

Lol it sure would cool to know exactly how hard they threw but if you play coach and watch enough Baseball you can tell how hard someone?s throwing.

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I saw somewhere, can't remember where but sure it was on MLB network, that folks who do this sorta thing figure Walter Johnson was the first guy to throw 90.

And I do not believe very many guys threw as hard then as they do now. Strike zone was MUCH MUCH bigger but I just don't think there were many guys at all that averaged too close to 90

Great baseball thread here.
Can anyone in this thread dig up which pitcher
had the best stats of all time against the Babe??
May not be possible to pull up since it was so long
ago.

Yall know that I know less than dick about baseball, but does Ted Williams even deserve a mention in this conversation (as a BA hitter)?

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Originally Posted by TUSK

Yall know that I know less than dick about baseball, but does Ted Williams even deserve a mention in this conversation (as a BA hitter)?

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Without a doubt. Teddy Ballgame was a stud! Lost 5 of his prime years to military service. No telling what numbers he would?ve put up. Probably knew more about hitting than anyone who ever lived. The Science Of Hitting is a must read for any baseball player.

When discussing the greatest hitters of all time, I always think of Tony Gwynn. Sure he was no power threat, but a career .338 hitter with an ops of .847. 3,141 hits and only struck out an amazing 4.2% in over 10,000 PAs

I do not put him in the conversation with Ruth and bonds bc Gwynn was a singles guy. He could really handle the bat though

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Originally Posted by TUSK

Yall know that I know less than dick about baseball, but does Ted Williams even deserve a mention in this conversation (as a BA hitter)?

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Ted Williams and Stan Musial both deserve to be at the top of the list. I think Williams may very well be the actual greatest hitter that ever lived. The shift we see today was first used against Williams and he still didn't try to go oppo. He was one of, if not the best of all time and he knew it. He was a real life John Wayne.

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Originally Posted by shoeless joe

Ted Williams and Stan Musial both deserve to be at the top of the list. I think Williams may very well be the actual greatest hitter that ever lived. The shift we see today was first used against Williams and he still didn't try to go oppo. He was one of, if not the best of all time and he knew it. He was a real life John Wayne.

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Well said!

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Originally Posted by msstate7

When discussing the greatest hitters of all time, I always think of Tony Gwynn. Sure he was no power threat, but a career .338 hitter with an ops of .847. 3,141 hits and only struck out an amazing 4.2% in over 10,000 PAs

I do not put him in the conversation with Ruth and bonds bc Gwynn was a singles guy. He could really handle the bat though

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What's really amazing to me is Ruth had higher BA than Gwynn. Think on that one for a moment.

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Originally Posted by Commercecomet24

Without a doubt. Teddy Ballgame was a stud! Lost 5 of his prime years to military service. No telling what numbers he would?ve put up. Probably knew more about hitting than anyone who ever lived. The Science Of Hitting is a must read for any baseball player.

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I know something about baseball!!!!

Hangin' another banner!

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Originally Posted by TUSK

I know something about baseball!!!!

Hangin' another banner!

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Lol keep puttin? em up! What?s one more!

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Originally Posted by TUSK

I know something about baseball!!!!

Hangin' another banner!

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When Ted met Richard Nixon, he said hi mr president im teddy 17ing ballgame! Ted had a pretty foul mouth lol

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Originally Posted by msstate7

Yeah, but how many of his peers would play today? How many 90+ fastballs did Ruth see? A hitter today sees pretty much nothing but high octane velocity and pitching specialists.

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ok they only had 8 teams, so the talent was not diluted. They had pitcher that could bring it. you never heard of Walter Johnson? plus it was the dead ball era. I f the Babe had the juiced balls of today he would have hit a 100 homers--Plus back then pitchers threw from an elevated mound-it has been lowered since the 60's. because nobody could hit Koufax-Drysdale-Marachel-Score-Ryan Duren or the mighty Bob Gibson. Steroids>hot dogs.

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Originally Posted by Commercecomet24

When Ted met Richard Nixon, he said hi mr president im teddy 17ing ballgame! Ted had a pretty foul mouth lol

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on of my best friends Caught for the Red SOX and he caught fungo for Ted in the spring--He said Ted had cuss words nobody had ever heard before. He said when he stuck his hand back for another ball you better have on e ready.

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Originally Posted by dawgday166

Haha. Probably take about 100 or so off the Babe's record.

I'm going with Mays, then Andruw.

RF I'm going with Clemente.

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Jimmy Piersall might have been the CF of all time. but he was bi-polar and struggled with it.

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Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

That?s irrelevant in this discussion.

I?m judging him as a player on the field.

Was he convicted of steroids?

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Steroids-hell no his head just doubled in size from eating Wheaties***

One of the things that has always been fascinating about baseball history is that in spite of being the most statistically analyzed sport in the world, you still can not truly compare players from one era to another. So much has changed over the past 175 years, creating so many variables, even advanced math doesn't really work. The ball has changed multiple times. Bats have changed significantly. Battling and pitching techniques have changed considerably. The fields have changed in size, fencing, lighting, and ground conditions considerably. Player conditioning and nutrition have become required (although, I'd argue pre-war players were probably just as well conditioned because a) many worked off-season in manual labor oriented jobs; and b) they ate more natural, less processed foods that the body metabolized better - think "country strong").

The result are long running generational arguments about who was best. Love it.

I have really enjoyed this thread and I wanted to say thanks for the quality read.

The Babe is the greatest of all-time in any era. He could have played and dominated in any era of baseball regardless of pitching, athletes, field dimensions, etc. The Babe's abilities were off the charts, and that's leading a rough lifestyle.

Read a tweet today that said Babe Ruth is still 12th all-time in ERA as a pitcher. Thats really amazing considering his hitting numbers.

Here is where you really see his greatness in my mind:

94-46 as a pitcher
2.28 ERA
Only pitched in 4 games in his last 16 seasons as a player. He had 90 wins by age 24
He easily ends up a 300 game winner if he pitches for the Yankees instead of moving to RF full-time- maybe a 400 game winner

He had only 514 of his 2873 hits in his 1st 6 seasons as a player because he pitched. He could have easily added another 500 hits to his lifetime total had he just played OF full-time. That would have put him around 3,300 hits and 800 Home Runs

There are so many great baseball posters on this board. Very intelligent people(well at least most, ha) that know the game and the history of the game. Some awesome discussions.

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Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg

One of the things that has always been fascinating about baseball history is that in spite of being the most statistically analyzed sport in the world, you still can not truly compare players from one era to another. So much has changed over the past 175 years, creating so many variables, even advanced math doesn't really work. The ball has changed multiple times. Bats have changed significantly. Battling and pitching techniques have changed considerably. The fields have changed in size, fencing, lighting, and ground conditions considerably. Player conditioning and nutrition have become required (although, I'd argue pre-war players were probably just as well conditioned because a) many worked off-season in manual labor oriented jobs; and b) they ate more natural, less processed foods that the body metabolized better - think "country strong").

The result are long running generational arguments about who was best. Love it.

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Great post!

http://www.baberuth.com/stats/

It's amazing when you look as his stats 80 years later and where he still ranks

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Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

Barry Bonds is/was better.

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Of course you're right, and it's not close when you look at Bonds' durability. But The Babe is probably the biggest sports' legend of all time. He is a mythical hero, and he can smite an untold number of challengers.And that's the end of it.

That's why 714 is better fixed in my mind than whatever the actual record is today, a number I've seen but don't know.