OT - Net Neutrality has now been removed.

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Originally Posted by SheltonChoked

Run like a business like the power company? Run like a business like the phone company?

Imagine if GE, who makes the power, made electric power that only worked with the appliances.

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Implement blackout periods except for users of GE appliances

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Originally Posted by preachermatt83

Amen

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You realize there is no such thing as a true free market right? Purely due to the Barriers of Entry and the size of the corporations, removing Net Neutrality will lead to monopoly type situations. This can even affect how politicians are elected. If Comcast doesn't like a politician then it could either slow the access or completely prevent you from getting information on anyone but the corporations chosen candidate. That is an extreme possibility but it isn't out of the realm of imagination.

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Originally Posted by preachermatt83

Standard deduction doubles. That should help a lot of ppl.

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Kicking peanuts to the middle class while kicking millions/billions to the corporations and 1%ers isn’t really helping the middle class. It’s a bait and switch to get them on board for a plan that on the surface sounds good for them but in reality ****s them. End of story. There’s no 2 ways about it. Multiple center-right publications with strong big money leanings (Forbes, the Wall Street journal, etc) have bashed this tax plan as a giant cluster**** that is going to hurt Americans.

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Originally Posted by TrapGame

The sky is not falling snowflake.

2015 internet standards were just as good as 2017.

Get over it.

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There it is again... snowflake. The new buzzword for the intellectually challenged.

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Originally Posted by dawgs

Kicking peanuts to the middle class while kicking millions/billions to the corporations and 1%ers isn’t really helping the middle class. It’s a bait and switch to get them on board for a plan that on the surface sounds good for them but in reality ****s them. End of story. There’s no 2 ways about it. Multiple center-right publications with strong big money leanings (Forbes, the Wall Street journal, etc) have bashed this tax plan as a giant cluster**** that is going to hurt Americans.

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Bush 41 said it best - it?s voodoo economics. Always has been. Anyone who believes Arthur Laffer is a bloody idiot. Just ask anyone living in Kansas how well it works.

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Originally Posted by Lord McBuckethead

Yep, my wife gets all heated about stuff all the time. I remind her that they either voted for it, or didn't come out to the polls. Why be bothered by it?

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Many of our wives, mine included are downright infuriated.

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Originally Posted by Lord McBuckethead

Well I like the conversation fellas. Glad to know on this one issue, I think almost everyone can agree.
Now lets get this tax cut passed and hope it benefits people like us more than it benefits people with a few billion in the bank.

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Well... you?re in for a 17?n shock. But if you?re a party line kinda guy, either you won?t acknowledge or you?ll somehow blame the other side.

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Originally Posted by preachermatt83

Amen

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How do the few of you who think that what happened today is a good thing continue to not understand what is happening? Like, I get having a different opinion on things (let's keep tax talk to the political board), but 100% of you who are happy about this don't even seem to grasp what is going on.

Let me try, one more time, to explain why this is really, really bad.

Up until 2015, TeleComs tried on multiple occasions, to regulate the flow of information and access to content that went through their service. Because they controlled both the access (to a monopoly level) and had their own content, this was ruled by multiple court cases to be an unfair business practice because they tried to restrict access to competitors. In order to save everyone time, the FCC in 2015 created Net Neutrality, to rule that once and for all that Telecoms can't do that because the internet, at this stage in society, is a necessary good. Now that Net Neutrality has been killed, the TeleComs will go back to regulating flow and access themselves. This is what people like you seem to be confusing about the situation- the NN regulation is actually an anti-regulation regulation, making it so that everyone has equal access to the internet and the services and content provided by it.

I really can't make this any clearer. I do not understand why anyone would want Comcast, the country's least favorite company, to be able to control what you can access.

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Originally Posted by Turfdawg67

There it is again... snowflake. The new buzzword for the intellectually challenged.

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Sorry I hit a nerve Francis.

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Originally Posted by TrapGame

Sorry I hit a nerve Francis.

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Not a nerve. Just a contempt for cheap-shot language.

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Originally Posted by sonofozarka

My guess is that they want to be able to allow the ISP's to grow, profit, and charge more to the consumer and to the content providers.

This may be a way for companies like Comcast to offset the huge losses they're seeing in cable subscriptions dropping by allowing them to charge content producers

Also guess this may end up in court, because if they were to have passed it, ISP's may have a case saying the law is hindering their ability to get market value for their service.

We may consider the internet a public service, but it's run by businesses, not the gov't. The businesses want to be able to maximize profit, and the Comcast's of the world are in the pocket of the Republicans

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This is it. I know I guy that owns a small ISP in Mississippi. He said net neutrality basically forced him to subsidize companies like Hula and Netflix by providing their infrastructure for them . It forced Comcast and the like subsidize their competitors. It wasn't fair. It favored some companies over others. It was crony capitalism at the highest level.

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Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg

This is it. I know I guy that owns a small ISP in Mississippi. He said net neutrality basically forced him to subsidize companies like Hula and Netflix by providing their infrastructure for them . It forced Comcast and the like subsidize their competitors. It wasn't fair. It favored some companies over others. It was crony capitalism at the highest level.

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Exactly....that?s why all the big boys were for it....thank God Trump saw through the BS!

So, the internet?s been around since the 90?s and has operated openly and freely since its inception. But, now, we Should suddenly be concerned about *big, evil corporations* exploiting it for profit? And why? Because a politician tells you you should be?

If limiting access to certain websites is such a big concern, why weren?t the ISP?s doing it in 2000 - 2010? There were no Net Neutrality laws to prevent them from doing it. What stopped them then and what will continue to stop them now is the free market economy. If Comcast starts limiting access or charging more to access certain sites, they?ll lose customers and the market will force them to change their asinine policies.

Again, Net Neutrality is a government power grab framed as a solution to a non-existent problem. Why would you want to give the government control over something so important to your daily life? I mean, they did so well with healthcare, why not give them the internet too?

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Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg

This is it. I know I guy that owns a small ISP in Mississippi. He said net neutrality basically forced him to subsidize companies like Hula and Netflix by providing their infrastructure for them . It forced Comcast and the like subsidize their competitors. It wasn't fair. It favored some companies over others. It was crony capitalism at the highest level.

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That''s fair. But where is this? I can't seem to find a small ISP to subscribe with. My choices are only ATT or the cable company.

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Originally Posted by drunkernhelldawg

That''s fair. But where is this? I can't seem to find a small ISP to subscribe with. My choices are only ATT or the cable company.

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All his story shows is that this is good for he TeleComs and bad for literally everyone else.

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Originally Posted by drunkernhelldawg

Not a nerve. Just a contempt for cheap-shot language.

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Seems appropriate to me.

A few of y'all have your Lefty slips showing. If a righty really believes this is bad and can convince me I'll listen with an open mind but I'm not buying Lefty talking points.

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Originally Posted by TrapGame

A few of y'all have your Lefty slips showing. If a righty really believes this is bad and can convince me I'll listen with an open mind but I'm not buying Lefty talking points.

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There?s several in this thread already, but I guess you won?t take my word on that because my ?lefty slip? is showing. The guy who started this thread advocated for the tax plan ffs.

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Originally Posted by BulldogDX55

There?s several in this thread already, but I guess you won?t take my word on that because my ?lefty slip? is showing. The guy who started this thread advocated for the tax plan ffs.

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Then they can persuade me. I'm open to listen but I've read four or five articles over the last hour that lead me to believe this is getting blown way out of proportion.

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Originally Posted by TrapGame

A few of y'all have your Lefty slips showing. If a righty really believes this is bad and can convince me I'll listen with an open mind but I'm not buying Lefty talking points.

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Adorable.

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Originally Posted by TrapGame

A few of y'all have your Lefty slips showing. If a righty really believes this is bad and can convince me I'll listen with an open mind but I'm not buying Lefty talking points.

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Good god

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Originally Posted by dawgs

Good god

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Yes, God is good.

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Originally Posted by TrapGame

A few of y'all have your Lefty slips showing. If a righty really believes this is bad and can convince me I'll listen with an open mind but I'm not buying Lefty talking points.

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Lmao at "I'm not listening to a Democrat." *This* is why our politics is a freaking disaster.

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Originally Posted by bluelightstar

Lmao at "I'm not listening to a Democrat." *This* is why our politics is a freaking disaster.

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Says the liberal.

C'mon guys this is too easy.

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Originally Posted by TrapGame

Says the liberal.

C'mon guys this is too easy.

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Your troll game is very elaborate, baby cakes**

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Originally Posted by TrapGame

Says the liberal.

C'mon guys this is too easy.

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Are you just deliberately trolling the thread or do you want to seriously discuss the issue at hand?

Anyone supporting anything Comcast wants needs to take the next Uber to Canada and stay there permanently

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Originally Posted by TrapGame

Seems appropriate to me.

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It doesn't seem appropriate to me. It seems insulting or denigrating. It's a term meant to drain respect from those to whom it is applied.

I do acknowledge that it may not be as bad as it seems. However, it was disgusting that the FCC insisted on going ahead with the vote even though millions of fake comments supporting the change have been revealed to have occured on the official FCC discussion of the issue.

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Originally Posted by drunkernhelldawg

I do acknowledge that it may not be as bad as it seems. However, it was disgusting that the FCC insisted on going ahead with the vote even though millions of fake comments supporting the change have been revealed to have occured on the official FCC discussion of the issue.

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Hell, I also acknowledge it might not end up being that bad. However, if we left NN in place, then we KNOW the potentially catastrophic things won?t happen. Why get rid of it? Who here actually trusts Comcast not to bend us over?

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Originally Posted by Ezsoil

It never amazes me the number of people who fail to realize that government regulation is nothing more than selecting winners and losers and limiting access to the free market by force. Licensing is nothing more than a barrier to market entry. Net Neutrality was a nifty name for government and not the marketplace to determine who can provide your servivce. I'd much rather have a free market where anyone can enter the market and provide any service that I'm willing to pay for .. than to have a limited number of providers who only offer a set of service standards as determined by government....I'm smart enough to determine what is good for me.

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But are you smart enough to realize that not anyone can jump into the market to compete for your dollars, not bc of regulation but bc it?s too damn expensive and risky to lay the infrastructure to compete against what is already there? Zero regulation only works in a perfect world. Complete government control has no place in reality either. Protecting consumers (this isn?t luxury products, it?s a cornerstone of our economy) is an excellent idea when we have no alternatives. I?m very okay with the Feds regulating the major gas pipelines that supply my local utility companies with their fuel. Why? Bc they are in a unique position to royally **** us over due to virtually zero competition. I?m okay with regulating broadband as well bc they could easily do the same - just with megabytes instead of molecules.

All that said, it?s up to citizens to make sure that regulation doesn?t become overbearing and overextends its purpose of consumer protection. This knee jerk ?all regulations are bad? attitude I see today is not only lazy logic, it can be down right dangerous for our safety it we get too drunk with scaling essential regs back.

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Originally Posted by BulldogDX55

Who here actually trusts Comcast not to bend us over?

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Nobody trusts Comcast. The Trump Trolls are just getting what they love best right now. Ruffling the feathers of the rest of us "snowflakes". They don't care that it will cost them more money because it's worth it to them to enjoy pissing off everyone else. Trump Trolls are now awaiting their leader to issue the next troll. Should be only days away. One big one happens once a week on schedule.

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Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg

This is it. I know I guy that owns a small ISP in Mississippi. He said net neutrality basically forced him to subsidize companies like Hula and Netflix by providing their infrastructure for them . It forced Comcast and the like subsidize their competitors. It wasn't fair. It favored some companies over others. It was crony capitalism at the highest level.

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This is why net neutrality was passed. Comcast started charging Netflix a fee to not throttle them. In 2013. Here is the WSJ story.
https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/net...ing-1393175346

Now it begins again.... Getting ready to pay more for content. Or I hope you like NBC universal programming.

And your friend was not forced by Netflix and Hulu. He was forced to to continue to deliver the bandwidth he sold to his customers. We don't let the power company off the hook when they cut off your power because you use too much, and still charge you. Isp's shouldn't either.

Another reason y'all should be pissed about today is that it's going to be dragged out in the courts for awhile costing billions of tax dollars. I believe 22 states have already filed to sue the FCC because of the decision today.

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Originally Posted by SheltonChoked

This is why net neutrality was passed. Comcast started charging Netflix a fee to not throttle them. In 2013. Here is the WSJ story.
https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/net...ing-1393175346

Now it begins again.... Getting ready to pay more for content. Or I hope you like NBC universal programming.

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I?m just hoping Obama comes out with a public service message that it is a bad idea to jump off a cliff.

It would amount to genocide.

Not too bad for Netflix, cause they are established and have a company that could possibly pay for it. They will raise rates.

Now for the next "Netflix"....well they do not have the capital to pay the bullshit toll. Their service will slow down to a crawl. They will go bankrupt.

This thread is most definitely headed for the political board so if anyone wants to contribute to it when it does be sure to PM Scoobadawg and ask for access as he is the only one with the keys to the stable.

I’d feel like a ***** if I didn’t think I could live without the interwebs.

Look guys I'm sure there are pros and cons. I'm not sold on the robber barons of the internet argument. It's been enlightening but I'm out of this discussion. I'm not here to be an asshole and spew venom.

I really just want to talk sports. Have a good one. Merry Christmas and Happy Hanukkah.

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Originally Posted by TrapGame

Look guys I'm sure there are pros and cons. I'm not sold on the robber barons of the internet argument. It's been enlightening but I'm out of this discussion. I'm not here to be an asshole and spew venom.

I really just want to talk sports. Have a good one. Merry Christmas and Happy Hanukkah.

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the rubber Barron's of the internet is not an argument. It's history. It happened. That's how we got the FCC net neutrality in the first place. Read my WSJ link above.

Then think, would I even know what the next Netflix is if they had to pay the isp's for bandwidth.