HEARD FROM VERY HIGH PLACED SOURCE...

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Originally Posted by LockeDawg

IMO, the NCAA dragging this out even longer is directly counter to the purpose of the NCAA to protect and support student-athletes. The NCAA should move rapidly and let these kids transfer out, holding them hostage on a sinking ship is just wrong on so many fronts.

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No sympathy for them knowingly jumping into a sinking ship.

Plus another year added on to it, at least........

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Originally Posted by louisvilledawg

No sympathy for them knowingly jumping into a sinking ship.

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They are kids, they made a mistake and went for the flashy instantaneous benefits. IMO, it's an injustice to the "student-athletes" for the NCAA to not rule as promptly as possible so that they have an opportunity to transfer immediately.

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Originally Posted by LockeDawg

They are kids, they made a mistake and went for the flashy instantaneous benefits. IMO, it's an injustice to the "student-athletes" for the NCAA to not rule as promptly as possible so that they have an opportunity to transfer immediately.

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I have no sympathy for the players that signed with them last year. They knew what they were getting. I have no sympathy for any player that took an illegal benefit. You knew this was possible.

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Originally Posted by LockeDawg

They are kids, they made a mistake and went for the flashy instantaneous benefits. IMO, it's an injustice to the "student-athletes" for the NCAA to not rule as promptly as possible so that they have an opportunity to transfer immediately.

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They knew it was against the rules. They did it anyway and now they pay the price. No injustice has been done to the guilty

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Originally Posted by Technetium

"The question for the rebels is, what do they decide to do with it?"

I don't understand this type of question about it. Unless the current allegations will, by themselves, result in the death penalty, the NCAA has every incentive to keep investigating and tacking on additional penalty-causing allegations when they find more evidence. Failing to do so tells other schools that there is a upper limit to how far the NCAA is willing to go, and so continuing to cheat during an investigation has a predictable and capped/limited risk.

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True regarding this statement, but the NCAA's issue at hand concerns their new penalty matrix they introduced in 2013. This is really the first "mega" case where penalties are to be applied via the new matrix and DeviousDog has previously shown that systematically running the numbers results in 40+ scholarship losses (i.e., basically the death penalty in and of itself). And that's just with 21 Level I's (not counting the number of times many of these Level I's occurred more than once, which somebody said it's approaching 100 rules-breaking incidents).

And TCUN is still breaking the rules and can't come to grips that they've gotta play by the NCAA's rules (which they agreed to do upon accepting membership into the NCAA). This case truly is precedent-setting, and as I've said before, will make SMU look like an appetizer compared to the main course the NCAA is about to serve at the dinner table (think TCUN cooked well-done on a platter).

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Originally Posted by LockeDawg

They are kids, they made a mistake and went for the flashy instantaneous benefits. IMO, it's an injustice to the "student-athletes" for the NCAA to not rule as promptly as possible so that they have an opportunity to transfer immediately.

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Originally Posted by Pollodawg

I have no sympathy for the players that signed with them last year. They knew what they were getting. I have no sympathy for any player that took an illegal benefit. You knew this was possible.

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Agree with Pollo. MSU wasn't good enough for them when they signed on to play for these cheats then, so no way in hell do I want any of them to look to transfer our way when the NCAA drops the hammer. They should be made to lie in the bed they helped make (but they'll be given the opportunity to transfer even though they were aware of the backpacks of cash, loaner vehicles and other "opportunity fund" rewards).

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Originally Posted by WSOPdawg

Agree with Pollo. MSU wasn't good enough for them when they signed on to play for these cheats then, so no way in hell do I want any of them to look to transfer our way when the NCAA drops the hammer. They should be made to lie in the bed they helped make (but they'll be given the opportunity to transfer even though they were aware of the backpacks of cash, loaner vehicles and other "opportunity fund" rewards).

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I didn't say they should transfer to MSU, I simply feel like they should be informed as soon as possible about the bowl-ban so that they can transfer to any program that will take them.....Hell, most D-1 schools are probably full and have no room at this point. Doesn't mean the NCAA should drag out the penalty phase to the point where the student-athletes are held hostage and can't go elsewhere.

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Originally Posted by Saltydog

Plus another year added on to it, at least........

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No it hasn't. There is nobody to accept the self-imposed sanctions. The members of the COI which will hear this case have not been identified. UNM is way past the point where they could have pre-empted undeclared penalties. They chose the full investigative route. While the COI can include that self-imposed sanction they have no members assigned to do so at this time.

The investigators do not make recommendations in this process they make a report of facts. Not suggested penalties.

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Originally Posted by gravedigger

Maybe. I hear everyone referring to it as a second NOA but I've seen nothing official calling it that. It could be an amended 1st and not subject to repeat offender. That said, if something outside that has been found, I'm under the impression that it won't matter either way. The NCAA will see it as unmitigated arrogance and punish just the same.

My instinct says the NCAA would actually prefer to give them penalties that extend the timeframe in order to be able to come back again if necessary. If the death penalty is used, the NCAA might look like a villain. Probably will be able to attain the same results without the stigma of the term.

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This response is to you and the poster you responded to. The "repeat offender" stipulation has to do with infractions occurring after the COI has handed out penalties to any sport in the atheletic department. For UNM, that happened in Oct. 2016. Any infractions found AFTER that date triggers the repeat offender clause. It doesn't matter if is an addendum to the first NOA, if is a part of a 2nd or 3rd NOA. They are already on probation so in infraction that occurs after that date for the next several years is subject to repeat offender, regardless of where the NCAA decides to attach those those infractions to whichever NOA. So far as we know right now, anything discovered to have occurred after last Oct is not with the additional allegations that have been received and are awaiting a response, supposedly. But we know how forthcoming they are with facts so until its made public we can't say for certain. Best guess is the COI completes the penalty phase from the addendum 1st NOA and if these rumors are true a 2nd NOA includes the new infractions occurring after Oct.

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Originally Posted by Political Hack

I'll just be happy when State folks don't feel "threatened to cheat" anymore because they don't have to compete with OM's antics when recruiting MS kids. A lot of people don't realize it, but if OM, Auburn, and TN would clean it up the cheating level in the SEC would be next to nothing. No more pressure to keep up with the Jones's. Playing in the SEC has enough benefits. All the cheating occurs because SEC school X is trying to outrecruit SEC school Y. End that and 90%+ of the major cheating would go away.

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Very true.....Rep Given

Rosebowl doesn't think there is anything to this new rumor of another NOA.

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Originally Posted by Really Clark?

This response is to you and the poster you responded to. The "repeat offender" stipulation has to do with infractions occurring after the COI has handed out penalties to any sport in the atheletic department. For UNM, that happened in Oct. 2016. Any infractions found AFTER that date triggers the repeat offender clause. It doesn't matter if is an addendum to the first NOA, if is a part of a 2nd or 3rd NOA. They are already on probation so in infraction that occurs after that date for the next several years is subject to repeat offender, regardless of where the NCAA decides to attach those those infractions to whichever NOA. So far as we know right now, anything discovered to have occurred after last Oct is not with the additional allegations that have been received and are awaiting a response, supposedly. But we know how forthcoming they are with facts so until its made public we can't say for certain. Best guess is the COI completes the penalty phase from the addendum 1st NOA and if these rumors are true a 2nd NOA includes the new infractions occurring after Oct.

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Please explain the October date... the NOA addendum came out in May 2016... That being said.... The NCAA settled the basketball and track issues last fall. That was a FINAL, my understanding, for those two programs, ONLY???? And that FOOTBALL investigation was on going.....

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Originally Posted by Really Clark?

This response is to you and the poster you responded to. The "repeat offender" stipulation has to do with infractions occurring after the COI has handed out penalties to any sport in the atheletic department. For UNM, that happened in Oct. 2016. Any infractions found AFTER that date triggers the repeat offender clause. It doesn't matter if is an addendum to the first NOA, if is a part of a 2nd or 3rd NOA. They are already on probation so in infraction that occurs after that date for the next several years is subject to repeat offender, regardless of where the NCAA decides to attach those those infractions to whichever NOA. So far as we know right now, anything discovered to have occurred after last Oct is not with the additional allegations that have been received and are awaiting a response, supposedly. But we know how forthcoming they are with facts so until its made public we can't say for certain. Best guess is the COI completes the penalty phase from the addendum 1st NOA and if these rumors are true a 2nd NOA includes the new infractions occurring after Oct.

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I concur, but my larger point is that this thing is bigger than anyone on either side could have imagined.

Players talking to agents and fighting with family members at home they couldn't afford.
Public drug use
Former players Openly admitting to taking money
Academic fraud going back to 2007
Coaches fired
Pay for visits
Recruits lying to investigators
Burner phones

Their new penalty structure just didn't account for all of this. Additionally the death penalty sounds bad but if they were given that for next year and were told to "start over" it might not have the lasting impact the SMU case had.

Somehow the NCAA needs to bring this thing home with a don't let this happen to you message attached.

Of course the new defense of everyone will be "well we cheated some, but not like Ole Miss did."

I just don't see the NCAA allowing this to be anything but a "we're back" moment.

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Originally Posted by Mimi's Babies

Please explain the October date... the NOA addendum came out in May 2016... That being said.... The NCAA settled the basketball and track issues last fall. That was a FINAL, my understanding, for those two programs, ONLY???? And that FOOTBALL investigation was on going.....

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Wouldn't the official probation clock have started the moment the other two programs were place on probation? Resulting in repeat offender status "if" anything happened after that date in any other sport, i.e. OM goes on probation Oct '16 for WBB & Track, "if" a recruiting violation in any other sport occurs after Oct '16 then they could be a repeat offender because it occurred inside their probation window.

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Originally Posted by LockeDawg

I didn't say they should transfer to MSU, I simply feel like they should be informed as soon as possible about the bowl-ban so that they can transfer to any program that will take them.....Hell, most D-1 schools are probably full and have no room at this point. Doesn't mean the NCAA should drag out the penalty phase to the point where the student-athletes are held hostage and can't go elsewhere.

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IF the players received BENEFITS they will NOT be allowed to transfer..... We know of at least 8 in the class of 2016.... that received benefits..... :o

SOME Players/RECRUITS and PARENTS have been CAUGHT LYING to the NCAA... :mad:

Some High school coaches..... were giving benefits to certain recruits ILLEGAL...... :mad:

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Originally Posted by Mimi's Babies

Please explain the October date... the NOA addendum came out in May 2016... That being said.... The NCAA settled the basketball and track issues last fall. That was a FINAL, my understanding, for those two programs, ONLY???? And that FOOTBALL investigation was on going.....

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To be eligible for repeat offender status, you have to have an athletic program (doesn't matter which one, men's or women's) already on probation with the final penalties handed out by the NCAA COI. For them, track and women's basketball, was settled in Oct 2016 and they began the penalty/probation phase. Any sport found to have committed infractions after last Oct (the infraction actually occurring after that date) could trigger the repeat offender clause.

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Originally Posted by gravedigger

I concur, but my larger point is that this thing is bigger than anyone on either side could have imagined.

Players talking to agents and fighting with family members at home they couldn't afford.
Public drug use
Former players Openly admitting to taking money
Academic fraud going back to 2007
Coaches fired
Pay for visits
Recruits lying to investigators
Burner phones

Their new penalty structure just didn't account for all of this. Additionally the death penalty sounds bad but if they were given that for next year and were told to "start over" it might not have the lasting impact the SMU case had.

Somehow the NCAA needs to bring this thing home with a don't let this happen to you message attached.

Of course the new defense of everyone will be "well we cheated some, but not like Ole Miss did."

I just don't see the NCAA allowing this to be anything but a "we're back" moment.

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I agree and along with others have said that the NCAA are in some uncharted waters with this case. Throw in the new penalty matrix and a much larger HC responsibility (ignorance of what was going on no longer absolves a HC) and that is why every school is watching the final outcome very very closely.

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Originally Posted by LockeDawg

Wouldn't the official probation clock have started the moment the other two programs were place on probation? Resulting in repeat offender status "if" anything happened after that date in any other sport, i.e. OM goes on probation Oct '16 for WBB & Track, "if" a recruiting violation in any other sport occurs after Oct '16 then they could be a repeat offender because it occurred inside their probation window.

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That is correct

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Originally Posted by Really Clark?

To be eligible for repeat offender status, you have to have an athletic program (doesn't matter which one, men's or women's) already on probation with the final penalties handed out by the NCAA COI. For them, track and women's basketball, was settled in Oct 2016 and they began the penalty/probation phase. Any sport found to have committed infractions after last Oct (the infraction actually occurring after that date) could trigger the repeat offender clause.

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Boy, oh boy is the crap getting deeper... One KNOWN high school coach (an OM booster also) transporting a said recruit to OM football games.... pictures and all shown to others..... What about the former NOA that OM received... was that NOA penalty (maybe 2013) over BEFORE this investigation started????? Eventually it will come out as to WHAT/HOW MUCH these coaches at the local high schools were paid..... ugh


Had someone in the know said that they were told on Monday -- that OM received more NCAA Paperwork.... carry on NCAA.

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Originally Posted by Mimi's Babies

Boy, oh boy is the crap getting deeper... One KNOWN high school coach transporting a said recruit to OM football games.... pictures and all..... What about the former NOA that OM received... was that NOA penalty over BEFORE this investigation started????? Eventually it will come out as to what these coaches at the local high schools were paid..... ugh

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You have to understand, because of draft night and other allegations coming to light, the original NOA was actually split. They decided to go ahead and finalize track and women's basketball to start the clock in Oct 2016. Now any football infractions BEFORE that date, known and the time or even if it's discovered later, does not trigger the repeat offender clause. Any thing found in any sport after last Oct can trigger the repeat offender. But specifically for football, the death penalty would likely only come into play with infractions after that date and while the school is on probation. For arguments sake, let's say they get 4 years probation. Any infractions from Oct 2016 until the end of probation plus an additional up to 5 year window can trigger the repeat offender clause with a major infraction.

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Originally Posted by Really Clark?

You have to understand, because of draft night and other allegations coming to light, the original NOA was actually split. They decided to go ahead and finalize track and women's basketball to start the clock in Oct 2016. Now any football infractions BEFORE that date, known and the time or even if it's discovered later, does not trigger the repeat offender clause. Any thing found in any sport after last Oct can trigger the repeat offender. But specifically for football, the death penalty would likely only come into play with infractions after that date and while the school is on probation. For arguments sake, let's say they get 4 years probation. Any infractions from Oct 2016 until the end of probation plus an additional up to 5 year window can trigger the repeat offender clause with a major infraction.

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Bring it own.... November 2016, Farrar was STILL in high schools and nothing changed from November 2015.... Who knows just what happened with the class of 2017 -- know one high school coach was committing illegal actions.... BRING IT OWN..... Probation should be about 5 years and 10 Show cause for freezeus.... But what about academic fraud... and not the ACT.... hearing that there is evidence of academic fraud????

Re draft night: NCAA was investigating high school crap when that BOMB of a Bong dropped.....:confused:

Whether you are OM or state fan, their lack of integrity for the educational requirements at one of our state supported universities pisses me off big time. I've heard buying GED's at another state supported JUCO in the furthest northern part of the delta. Then moving on to Wayne County for the ACT test. I have not heard anything from the states appointed committee of Higher Education. Glenn Boyce is president of this committee. I know Glenn Personally and I just can't fathom why their are not heads rolling. I'm going to call Glenn and I've decided to give them the benefit of the doubt and wait until after the NCAA is done with their punishments. I think its a matter that helps to destroy our educational system further then it already is. We as taxpayers have a right in this, your thoughts?

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Originally Posted by Really Clark?

This response is to you and the poster you responded to. The "repeat offender" stipulation has to do with infractions occurring after the COI has handed out penalties to any sport in the atheletic department. For UNM, that happened in Oct. 2016. Any infractions found AFTER that date triggers the repeat offender clause. It doesn't matter if is an addendum to the first NOA, if is a part of a 2nd or 3rd NOA. They are already on probation so in infraction that occurs after that date for the next several years is subject to repeat offender, regardless of where the NCAA decides to attach those those infractions to whichever NOA. So far as we know right now, anything discovered to have occurred after last Oct is not with the additional allegations that have been received and are awaiting a response, supposedly. But we know how forthcoming they are with facts so until its made public we can't say for certain. Best guess is the COI completes the penalty phase from the addendum 1st NOA and if these rumors are true a 2nd NOA includes the new infractions occurring after Oct.

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Great to see you back Clark!
Rep tried, I've given you too many +'s

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Originally Posted by Mimi's Babies

Please explain the October date... the NOA addendum came out in May 2016... That being said.... The NCAA settled the basketball and track issues last fall. That was a FINAL, my understanding, for those two programs, ONLY???? And that FOOTBALL investigation was on going.....

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If Ole Miss had women's rowing team that went on probation in October or 2016 Any infractions in ANY sport they offer would come under the repeat offender clause for five years from that date. The sport doesn't t matter.

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Originally Posted by Bodaski

Whether you are OM or state fan, their lack of integrity for the educational requirements at one of our state supported universities pisses me off big time. I've heard buying GED's at another state supported JUCO in the furthest northern part of the delta. Then moving on to Wayne County for the ACT test. I have not heard anything from the states appointed committee of Higher Education. Glenn Boyce is president of this committee. I know Glenn Personally and I just can't fathom why their are not heads rolling. I'm going to call Glenn and I've decided to give them the benefit of the doubt and wait until after the NCAA is done with their punishments. I think its a matter that helps to destroy our educational system further then it already is. We as taxpayers have a right in this, your thoughts?

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IHL -- will only turn their noses up... Just like the MSHSAA.... NOTHING about the coaches selling players to OM..... Allowing recruiters through the back door into the school, passing money in the school to recruits, on the field during games, in the field house before, during and after the games, and being introduced as an OLE MISS ALUM.... when he was the bag man/recruiter(cough) for OM... one high school coach (an Om booster) hauling a recruit in the personal vehicle to an OM home game... Might want to investigate the Ath department accounting records in the high schools for large donations or did the bag man pay them in CASH?

There is so much corruption in the state of Mississippi it is a shame.

I am hearing of a newly created degree at Om for football players.... and many of the players Freeze has enrolled in a "General Studies" Degree. (I have not had time to investigate this degree YET... not sure what you could do with this -- nothing?????) I am hearing that some players are NOT making the grades that made in high school and are having TROUBLE in class... 1st you must go to class. I was told from another source that has proof of academic fraud at Om. Interesting that two different people, from two different states, that don't know each other, tell the same thing a day apart... Interesting.... How LOW will OM go?

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Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg

If Ole Miss had women's rowing team that went on probation in October or 2016 Any infractions in ANY sport they offer would come under the repeat offender clause for five years from that date. The sport doesn't t matter.

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Thanks..... I am learning the Legalities of the NCAA... quickly....
I SAW what went down... haha...

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Originally Posted by Buddy

Rosebowl doesn't think there is anything to this new rumor of another NOA.

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Buzz kill

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Originally Posted by Bully13

Buzz kill

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I was told that "SOMEONE is the know heard this on Monday". I told on this site months ago there should be at LEAST one more NOA..... I hope the NOA's don't stop coming.....

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Originally Posted by Bully13

Buzz kill

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Yes and no. Given his track record then I would say the new rumor is BS. THAT being said what has already come to light is enough to drive old Dixie down, and in a BIG way.

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Originally Posted by JDog13

It's true. They've been ratted out by a recruit with proof post noa2.

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Two recruits. At least two have given the goods recently.

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Originally Posted by RougeDawg

Two recruits. At least two have given the goods recently.

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Outstanding

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Originally Posted by Mimi's Babies

Boy, oh boy is the crap getting deeper... One KNOWN high school coach (an OM booster also) transporting a said recruit to OM football games.... pictures and all shown to others..... What about the former NOA that OM received... was that NOA penalty (maybe 2013) over BEFORE this investigation started????? Eventually it will come out as to WHAT/HOW MUCH these coaches at the local high schools were paid..... ugh


Had someone in the know said that they were told on Monday -- that OM received more NCAA Paperwork.... carry on NCAA.

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This is correct... It happened last Friday... Per my 1st post. Rosebowl is incorrect in saying may not be true... IT HAPPENED...

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Originally Posted by Reunion Dog

This is correct... It happened last Friday... Per my 1st post. Rosebowl is incorrect in saying may not be true... IT HAPPENED...

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Reunion Dog....
I AM doing the HAPPY Dance.....
For a coach to use a CHILD for personnel gain is inexcusable...
This could not happen soon enough.
Now for the next NOA...

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Originally Posted by Reunion Dog

This is correct... It happened last Friday... Per my 1st post. Rosebowl is incorrect in saying may not be true... IT HAPPENED...

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What Rosebowl meant is that he doesn't think this is a part of a current investigation. That may mean someone knows it happened and hasn't reported it or that they have reported it and it hasn't been corroborated within the investigation.

The NCAA's files for this case must look like this:

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/MSNBC/Co...660;7;70;0.jpg

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Originally Posted by Reunion Dog

This is correct... It happened last Friday... Per my 1st post. Rosebowl is incorrect in saying may not be true... IT HAPPENED...

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This shit is so systematic that it's damn near impossible to shut it down completely. Money flowing through back channels for years on end is difficult to shut the flow off even under the most critical of circumstances. You can't cut off the $$ flow when churches, FCA organizations, HS coaches, street agents are involved. People want their cut, period.

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Originally Posted by gravedigger

What Rosebowl meant is that he doesn't think this is a part of a current investigation. That may mean someone knows it happened and hasn't reported it or that they have reported it and it hasn't been corroborated within the investigation.

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"You never say never, but I'm not expecting anything else at this point."----This is his exact quote. He also said that we could all work together for 5 more years and not find half of the shit that they have going on up there. It's hard to bet against him at this point, but I hope he's wrong.

Rosebowl's actual quote: "You never say never, but I'm not expecting anything else at this point. I've heard rumors of potential wrong doing in the 2017 class, but I'm not sure how much substance there is to any of that at this point. Let me say again, we could all work together for the next five years and not find half of it."

So the short of it is this: the person with the most to lose if he's wrong about the validity of the rumor is not putting much stock into it. Some with less to use (message board posters) believe it to be true and claim sources. I'd say that puts this rumor squarely in the doubtful category, along with most rumors. Still, it's fun to hope it's true and dream of watching the NCAA add even more fuel to that dumpster fire...