Where did I say that? I said our floor is 6 wins.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reason2succeed
I'm just saying the reality is he can be replaced and we can realistically do better.
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Where did I say that? I said our floor is 6 wins.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reason2succeed
I'm just saying the reality is he can be replaced and we can realistically do better.
I disagree.....that was a pretty stout football team - much better than they got credit for. And that was mullen at his best - creative running game setting up a very basic passing attack that worked because defenses were geared on stopping the run. We haven't seen much of that offense since then, but I hope it makes a return this year.Quote:
Originally Posted by Random Poster
My question is what if we finish 8-4 with a third straight Egg Bowl loss? Do we extend him then? To me there really isn't much difference between 8-4 or 7-5 if we lose the Egg Bowl either way. Its hard to say, "Well Dan, we would have given you an extension but you lost that Arkansas game, so no dice."Quote:
Originally Posted by Random Poster
My bad that was C3... I mean Random Poster who said that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
Yes, Dan gets an extension if HE wants an extension but he might not. Have you ever considered that maybe Dan only wants to sign extensions after a great year so that he can make the most money? If he signs an extension after a down year he may be forced to stay in that contract after a season when he could have demanded more.Quote:
Originally Posted by HSVDawg
If he goes 8-4 in what should be a down year, yes, you extend him, even if he ends up with an egg bowl loss. 8-4 this year means we should be set up for 9 or 10 wins in 2017.Quote:
Originally Posted by HSVDawg
He was not offered an extension after last season. That is a fact. I think the whole discussion is whether Strick / Keenum should offer him an extension after this season and what variables affect that decision. Whether or not he signs it is on him, and pretty much irrelevant to the current topic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reason2succeed
I seriously wonder whether the people who are disgruntled about Mullen serve in leadership positions in their profession or in the community. My experience shows me that everything NEVER goes the way that you want it to go. In leadership you always find yourself having to make do with what you have right now on the way to something better. For Mullen it's called building a football program.
How quickly we forget what shape this program was in after Sherrill and Croom's tenure. Both of them left this place a wreck. Mullen is still building the brand of Mississippi State football in the minds of not only recruits but his coaching peers. Not everyone can do that. Not everyone is willing to do that.
Also, leaders realize that there are often things that go on behind the scenes that onlookers do not understand. Yes, you could start this guy or recruit that way but it would only be a temporary fix because it would kill the morale of your team. Look at Auburn where it looks like Gus has lost his locker room. How does that happen? Easy. When you place talent before responsibility and it spreads like a disease through your entire program.
If you are paying attention you will realize that Mullen is coaching for the long haul. Yes, OM has a run going on us but they are about to be buried by the NCAA because of it. Yes, JWS had some good years but at all three of his jobs he could not sustain it over four or five years. That's only one great signing class. Mullen has done it with totally different casts of characters as players and coaches.
So once again. Calm down. Be patient. Let the man work. When he leaves or if we have to let him go we will be in a better position than when he came in to move to the next level.
He wasn't offered an extension after this past season because of all the job shopping. I think if he goes 8-4 he gets an extension even with an EB loss.Quote:
Originally Posted by HSVDawg
I don't see how 2017 is setting up big. We lose a lot of good players- plus a lot on the OL. Then the schedule flips on us with Bama and LSU at home with the toss ups on the road.
You people? HahahaQuote:
Originally Posted by Random Poster
Very well said.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reason2succeed
what Mississippi is doing is a very small part of the way myself and others feel.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reason2succeed
It's about holding on to the poorest recruiter on staff and being subpar at his position talent wise
It's about job searching every November and hurting recruiting
It's about being 3-22 vs Saban, Miles, Sumlin, and Freezus
As I keep saying- we'll see what happens this season
I certainly agree. But there are circumstances that might also warrant offering an extension even if he only goes 7-5 and loses to OM. For instance, if we lose all 5 games by a TD or less, or if we lose one game on some freakish play like the Alex Collins backwards pass against OM or the prayer at Jordan Hare, you still definitely give him the extension. Then you have to consider how hard we get hit by injuries and many other factors. The whole talk that the extension will only be based on overall record and the Egg Bowl result is way overly simplistic. The actual decision makers will be looking a lot more in depth than that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnson85
Saban is Saban at Alabama. Beating them means you are in the NC discussion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Random Poster
Miles coaches LSU. We've beaten them once in Death Valley at night which most teams cannot say. Before Mullen got this program on track from where it was under Croom there couldn't have been an expectation that we actually beat them.
Sumlin had Johnny Manziel for two years and it happens that Dak's mother died the week of this game.
OM has been cheating their arse off and about to be hammered. Without chewing they would not have a better record than us over top teams. But even with it they have they same 19 wins in the last two seasons.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reason2succeed
Wish I could give this rep a thousand times.
I find it pretty short sighted to base any of Dan Mullen's extension talk off of the outcome of the Egg Bowl.
Everyone wants to find an objective measure by which to evaluate Mullen, but it's subjective. I want to see our program continuing to move in the right direction, I want to see progress on the OL, I want to see progress at RB, I want to see us develop another QB. If Mullen does all that well & we only win 7 or 8 games, then I don't see why the outcome of a 60 minute football game would have anything to do with whether Mullen is the right coach for the future of MSU.
Plus, everyone seems to selectively forget that Ole Miss is a unionized football team that won't hardly exist in 1 to 2 years. Why would you base the performance of a coach that does things the right way vs his performance against a unionized team?
I completely agree. I was just saying that an extension after 8-4 is a no brainer.Quote:
Originally Posted by HSVDawg
If A&M ends up playing up to their talent, and Arkansas takes a step forward, and neither UM nor Auburn let locker room/off the field issuse impact them, then 7-5 and being competitive in every game is more worthy of an extension than 8-4 will be if A&M and Auburn both end up imploding and we lose to Bama, LSU, UM, and Arkansas, in which case we could have a 2012 type year where we have a good regular season record while not beating any team that's better than average. But 8-4, pretty much anyway we get there, is worthy of an extension. Even if we don't beat anybody but non-conference teams and SEC teams that are imploding, Mullen would deserve an extension for basically keeping MSU with Bama and LSU as far as the only programs in the West that have avoided imploding in the last seven years.
I get frustrated as hell at some of Dan's weaknesses, but it's idiotic to zero in on weaknesses when actually determining whether you want him to stay. If you want a coach taht is not frustrating as hell to committed fans, you basically get to choose between Saban and Saban. The question is whether you think we are realistically likely to upgrade if he leaves, and the answer is no. Other people can certainly win here, but lots of SEC teams manage to 17 up hires. Our highly optimistic scenario would be to hire somebody that manages to repeat what Mullen has done. Our likely scenario is somebody comes in and wins some but with a floor that drops to 5 wins. You don't encourage Mullen to leave in order to roll the dice with a new guy. Even if we win 6 this year and 6 the next, you keep with him as long as he is trying to get better (and he pretty much has attempted to address every weakness other than Hev).Quote:
Originally Posted by Random Poster
Good post. Another point worth mentioning is that its been explictly stated that "no one is talking about firing Mullen". But implicitly, when talking about not offering extensions for a couple of years in a row, you are essentially talking about running him off which is more or less the same thing. That is especially true in Mississippi when the max contract length is only 4 years to begin with. No head coach in this state is going to stick around at any job if he has only 2 guaranteed years on the horizon even if he hasn't been fired. You'll see Mullen bolt out of here at light speed if an extension isn't signed at the end of this year, regardless of whether he deserves it or not. And he may decide to go anyways even if one is offered. So if Strick and Keenum decide not to offer him an extension this year, they do need to strongly consider the implications before doing so.Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnson85
Good grief, man, you have just managed to make the most rational, reasonable, well thought out post yet! Mullen is frustrating at times but he's done a dang good job building a winner at a school without a lot of history. I wonder if he did get rid of hev, what would move up to number one on the complaint list lol. All you have to do is look around to see how easy it is to screw up hires. Tennessee still hasn't recovered since they got rid of fulmer, UF screwed up hiring muschamp,etc.,,Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnson85
It took Bowden 11 years before he started winning 10+ games a year, it took Beamer a decade, it took Oregon over a decade, and the list goes on and on. We in pretty good shape with Dan!
If Nick Saban is the ultimate standard by which modern day coaches are judged, then I would say Dan is ahead of schedule. Go back and look at his record at Michigan State. And Dan inherited a program in much worse shape and in a lot tougher conference, much less division. I hope he is here for a long time, buy when he does leave as all coaches do, any success we are able to sustain will have a lot to do with what he did while here. I swear we are our own worst enemies! All coaches make decisions that frustrate their fan base.
All you have to do is look at the Bama melt after the unm loss last year. They were all ready to fire Saban, saying things like he got complacent, lost his fire, bad decision maker, blah, blah, blah. All that sound familiar? Our society is now one of instant gratification. People don't have patience to watch someone build something it has to be right now. I, for one, like stability even if that's not popular right now. I believe Dan is learning and growing as a coach. Can you imagine the melt if he left and won a NC somewhere else?Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokerDawg
This is how I feel although I would like to see some more creativity on offense as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Random Poster
They are a big factor for us if for no other reason than they are in state. We will have a chance to bury them again. Will Dan do it? Or will he continue to recruit questionably and allow them to stay around?Quote:
Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg
A good coach should be able to completely send Ole Miss to Vanderbilt territory. We let them off the hook in 1995. We can't allow it to happen again.
Absolutely right in that we have a chance to bury them and we need too. Dan has hired the right people to recruit at a high level both in state and nationally this past offseason. Dan had become frustrated with the level of unm cheating and nothing being done. The reason he was looking around so hard last year. He has worked hard to build us the right way and then freeze and company come in taking shortcuts. I would be frustrated too! After it got real for unm with the NCAA he got re energized. He has a chance to bury them now. I agree a good coach will step on their throat at this point . We shall see.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
Nobody is saying fire him. But 6-6 and 2-6 in the SEC is not going to get him a contract extension. We can hire anybody to do that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnson85
You guys keep trying to compare to Croom- you cant do that. No AD makes that terrible hire other than LT. To add to that, we are in an different era now than when Crooms was coach. Our budget is much larger. We have a bowled in stadium on one end now, SEC Network. SEC Prestige is much higher. We have 4 built in OOC wins every year now. 2-6 in the SEC is not good- and you dont reward that.
We'll see what happens this season and where things may go from there. Its going to be interesting.
Why are you so obsessed about us going 6-6 and 2-6 in the SEC? Even if he does it would not be the end of the world as you are saying. TWO YEARS AGO WE WERE #1 FOR 5 WEEKS!!! Not everyone can do that. Freeze hasn't, Richt never did, miles struggles to, Sumlin hasn't, Butch Jones hasn't...Quote:
Originally Posted by Random Poster
Let me spell it out since you don't seem to understand. I AM SATISFIED WITH THE PROGRESS OF OUR PROGRAM!!! That doesn't make me a chicken little (I'm predicting at least 8 wins this year). It doesn't mean that I am glossing over deficiencies in the OL. It means that I trust Mullen more than I trust Monday morning QBs from the comfort of their couch.
You can trust who you want- but the Monday Morning QB was the one that told you Mullen was trying like Hell to get out of Starkville. And you challenged the MMQB and said he was wrong- but he turned out to be right. You were WRONG on that. Soooooooo, be careful who you trustQuote:
Originally Posted by Reason2succeed
If Mullen goes 8-4 as you say- then all this doesnt matter. But if we go 6-6 or so- then there is going to be alot of rumblings. We didnt extend him after last season- and we wont extend him again. Thats all I'm saying
Yea but arky and auburn were top 5 teams.Quote:
Originally Posted by Random Poster
But you just got here this July?!?***Quote:
Originally Posted by Random Poster