And just like that- we are tied for 7th in the SEC at the halfway point

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Originally Posted by HSVDawg

As a reality check to the "fire cohenz" crowd, I'd just like to give a friendly reminder that we finished dead ****ing last in the SEC last year. We won 8 damn SEC games, a total that we have already matched this year. Quite frankly, this team had light years to go from last year to even get to be a respectable regional 3 seed this year, and here we are with 5 weeks to go talking about what we need to do to host. I'm as disappointed as the next guy about this past weekend, and would hate it if we eventually can't host in part because of it, but lets keep things in perspective. Some fans in their minds just set up Cohen to fail this year with their expectations. Going from last place in the SEC to a national seed or regional host over one season pretty much never happens, and can't be reasonably expected from any coach.

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I agree to an extent....but we never should have been as shitatastic as we were last year. So expecting far better than last year should have been the expectation. That being said, we have overachieved this season, so your point still stands.

I just don't want our fans to downplay our potential too much. We are a proud baseball school, and can win big here, make no mistake. Last year should not happen very often at MSU. Last year was not something Cohen inherited...he built that shit show, so he doesn't get a pass or to compare future teams to last year when that was his team that underperformed.

Again, not disagreeing, just pointing that out.

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Originally Posted by MarketingBully

So with your attitude, why do we even build the new stadium?

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Because it's something we CAN do, to give ourselves an advantage. When engie said it was 4th or 5th in the west, that was a stretch. I think we are probably 2nd in the west behind LSU. The ones with the advantages are Vanderbilt, Florida, Georgia, Tennessee and LSU.

This isn't hard. Your viewpoint is as wrong as an opinion can be. I told you earlier that it's best if you just went ahead and exited this thread. You can't win.

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Originally Posted by engie

No one is making excuses. We are trying to give a reality check. Something our fanbase seems to have lost a long time ago in baseball. The fact that we are where we are is very telling to just how good of job our coaching staff has done this year. Yet they are presented as blind squirrels occasionally finding a nut. The assumption that we can go out and cherrypick the next greatest coach in college baseball if we were to fire the ones we have with what they have accomplished seems ridiculous. It's not an easy place to win. Part of what Polk got right in his rant. The cards aren't stacked in our favor. I'd imagine if a neutral party were to rank the SEC baseball jobs -- we would be 4th or 5th in the west right now. That's just our own division. It's a nationally elite fanbase but not a nationally elite job.

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You make a few good points, but you are way too woe is us. Cohen isn't doing anything (other than the fluke CWS run) that every MSU coach before him couldn't do. If it's so hard to win at MSU, we must be damn good at picking coaches bc Polk, Mcmahon, Polk II, & Cohen have all won at MSU.

So yes, we have some disadvantages, but let's not poor mouth this thing to an exaggerated level either.

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Originally Posted by Taog Redloh

Because it's something we CAN do, to give ourselves an advantage. When engie said it was 4th or 5th in the west, that was a stretch. I think we are probably 2nd in the west behind LSU. The ones with the advantages are Vanderbilt, Florida, Georgia, Tennessee and LSU.

This isn't hard. Your viewpoint is as wrong as an opinion can be. I told you earlier that it's best if you just went ahead and exited this thread. You can't win.

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I agree with this

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Originally Posted by Taog Redloh

Because it's something we CAN do, to give ourselves an advantage. When engie said it was 4th or 5th in the west, that was a stretch. I think we are probably 2nd in the west behind LSU. The ones with the advantages are Vanderbilt, Florida, Georgia, Tennessee and LSU.

This isn't hard. Your viewpoint is as wrong as an opinion can be. I told you earlier that it's best if you just went ahead and exited this thread. You can't win.

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So expecting a national championship or a championship program at MSU in baseball is as wrong as wrong can be. Engie is acting like Cohen is the best possible coach we could get which I think is false. But if you guys are good with basically getting the same results our basketball program did under Stansbury then by all means let's keep the status quo.

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Originally Posted by CadaverDawg

You make a few good points, but you are way too woe is us. Cohen isn't doing anything (other than the fluke CWS run) that every MSU coach before him couldn't do. If it's so hard to win at MSU, we must be damn good at picking coaches bc Polk, Mcmahon, Polk II, & Cohen have all won at MSU.

So yes, we have some disadvantages, but let's not poor mouth this thing to an exaggerated level either.

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I will say its a tougher chore for Cohen to win now in the SEC than it was for Polk or McMahon. Back in Polk I and McMahon you didn't have the scholarship situation so out of whack from state to state like you have now. I mean just about every SEC state other than MS, AL and Ark now has a lottery that provides in state kid scholarships that don't count against the 11.7. Also, we had a much bigger "tradition" advantage and facilities advantage back in the 80s and 90s because we were one of the few that cared about baseball. I'm not sure Polk could have even survived in today's cutthroat environment of college baseball the way he recruited and with all the schools putting money into the sport.

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Originally Posted by CadaverDawg

You make a few good points, but you are way too woe is us. Cohen isn't doing anything (other than the fluke CWS run) that every MSU coach before him couldn't do. If it's so hard to win at MSU, we must be damn good at picking coaches bc Polk, Mcmahon, Polk II, & Cohen have all won at MSU.

So yes, we have some disadvantages, but let's not poor mouth this thing to an exaggerated level either.

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Please explain how it was a fluke CWS run. We won like 45 games going into the NCAA tourney. We had 20 or 21 SEC wins including the SEC tournament. We were ranked in the top 15 virtually all season, hosted a regional, and were 2 or 3 regular season wins away from being a national seed. No MSU coach since Polk in the late 80's / early 90's had a season that successful from start to finish, and that was before the NCAA tournament even began. If that CWS run was a fluke, then the whole season was a fluke.

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Originally Posted by Taog Redloh

Because it's something we CAN do, to give ourselves an advantage. When engie said it was 4th or 5th in the west, that was a stretch. I think we are probably 2nd in the west behind LSU. The ones with the advantages are Vanderbilt, Florida, Georgia, Tennessee and LSU.

This isn't hard. Your viewpoint is as wrong as an opinion can be. I told you earlier that it's best if you just went ahead and exited this thread. You can't win.

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We are not the second most desirable job for a coach in the SECWest. Not even close.

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Originally Posted by maroonmania

I will say its a tougher chore for Cohen to win now in the SEC than it was for Polk or McMahon. Back in Polk I and McMahon you didn't have the scholarship situation so out of whack from state to state like you have now. I mean just about every SEC state other than MS, AL and Ark now has a lottery that provides in state kid scholarships that don't count against the 11.7. Also, we had a much bigger "tradition" advantage and facilities advantage back in the 80s and 90s because we were one of the few that cared about baseball. I'm not sure Polk could have even survived in today's cutthroat environment of college baseball the way he recruited and with all the schools putting money into the sport.

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I agree.

Bottom line, Cohen recruits great and coaches well enough to keep us competitive and in Regionals most years....but he isn't good enough of an in-game coach to make us elite considering the built in disadvantages we have to overcome. He's still going to recruit at a high enough level to where we will have years of making Super's and even a CWS from time to time, so I can gladly live with that. His meddling will probably keep us from ever getting back to a Final or winning it though....but that takes luck too, so....

We just have to keep expectations in check and keep supporting.

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Originally Posted by HSVDawg

Please explain how it was a fluke CWS run. We won like 45 games going into the NCAA tourney. We had 20 or 21 SEC wins including the SEC tournament. We were ranked in the top 15 virtually all season, hosted a regional, and were 2 or 3 regular season wins away from being a national seed. No MSU coach since Polk in the late 80's / early 90's had a season that successful from start to finish, and that was before the NCAA tournament even began. If that CWS run was a fluke, then the whole season was a fluke.

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"Fluke" may be a poor choice. I agree. But it was about getting hot at the right time....we were a Cinderella team in the CWS. We weren't expected to make it near as far as we did is what I meant.

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Originally Posted by engie

We are not the second most desirable job for a coach in the SECWest. Not even close.

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Who is second?

It goes LSU 1 in the west, then who Engie? Arkansas? We have a better baseball program then they do. A&M? We have a better program then they do. Heck, the coach they have now has only been to the CWS once in 11 years. Who else?

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Originally Posted by CadaverDawg

You make a few good points, but you are way too woe is us. Cohen isn't doing anything (other than the fluke CWS run) that every MSU coach before him couldn't do. If it's so hard to win at MSU, we must be damn good at picking coaches bc Polk, Mcmahon, Polk II, & Cohen have all won at MSU.

So yes, we have some disadvantages, but let's not poor mouth this thing to an exaggerated level either.

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What exactly did I exaggerate?

Cohen is FAR MORE disadvantaged than any of those that came before him since at least the Gregory days before my lifetime.

Polk -- first full-time paid head baseball coach in the SEC. Big advantage. Got DNF built. Huge advantage. Didn't initially face the rules that now exist.
McMahon -- got DNF expanded. Was the first skyboxes in the country for college baseball. Was still the best stadium in the country at that point till the 2nd or 3rd Baum expansion in 2001-2003 or thereabouts.
Polk 2 -- Inherited a ton of talent which he wasted. Still inherited a competitive advantage facilities wise which he wasted in allowing the OM program to be built. Got the first dedicated IPF in college baseball history.
Cohen -- Inherited a total shit show on the field. Inherited the 2nd best stadium in north Mississippi. Inherited a fanbase where all of the old money wanted him fired before he ever showed up, many of which still do to this day. Inherited a 30 year old pile of bricks that was at best the 4th or 5th best stadium in the west the day he arrived and is unquestionably either 6th or 7th best in it's own division depending on how "best" is defined now.

Given the different SEC he's faced compared to all of those that came before him, it's amazing that he's won as much as he has to this point. We won't know how good he can be until we catch up in the facilities race(which is absolutely a huge portion of the deal among elite level recruits these days -- per 2 former SEC coaches).

But by all means -- our fanbase is good at sticking their head in the sand about what is really going on all around them -- show up for SBW -- and decide we are an imminent national power that should be so much better than the top 10 team we currently are. Nothing I can do to stop it -- nor is there anything going to prevent me from calling it ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by engie

What exactly did I exaggerate?

Cohen is FAR MORE disadvantaged than any of those that came before him since at least the Gregory days before my lifetime.

Polk -- first full-time paid head baseball coach in the SEC. Big advantage. Got DNF built. Huge advantage. Didn't initially face the rules that now exist.
McMahon -- got DNF expanded. Was the first skyboxes in the country for college baseball. Was still the best stadium in the country at that point till the 2nd or 3rd Baum expansion in 2001-2003 or thereabouts.
Polk 2 -- Inherited a ton of talent which he wasted. Still inherited a competitive advantage facilities wise which he wasted in allowing the OM program to be built. Got the first dedicated IPF in college baseball history.
Cohen -- Inherited a total shit show on the field. Inherited the 2nd best stadium in north Mississippi. Inherited a fanbase where all of the old money wanted him fired before he ever showed up, many of which still do to this day. Inherited a 30 year old pile of bricks that was at best the 4th or 5th best stadium in the west the day he arrived and is unquestionably either 6th or 7th best in it's own division depending on how "best" is defined now.

Given the different SEC he's faced compared to all of those that came before him, it's amazing that he's won as much as he has to this point. We won't know how good he can be until we catch up in the facilities race(which is absolutely a huge portion of the deal among elite level recruits these days -- per 2 former SEC coaches).

But by all means -- our fanbase is good at sticking their head in the sand about what is really going on all around them -- show up for SBW -- and decide we are an imminent national power that should be so much better than the top 10 team we currently are. Nothing I can do to stop it -- nor is there anything going to prevent me from calling it ridiculous.

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What a drama queen.

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Originally Posted by MarketingBully

It goes LSU 1 in the west, then who Engie? Arkansas? We have a better baseball program then they do.

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No we don't.

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A&M? We have a better program then they do.

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No we don't.

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Heck, the coach they have now has only been to the CWS once in 11 years. Who else?

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How many times has State been in the past 17 or so?

I guess you will agree that Ole Miss has a superior football program to us -- for the same reasons of your current argument?

A $55 million state of the art stadium to an already great baseball school power = a top five program. Yet the results will stay the same if we keep Cohen. Make the tournament regularly, host occasionally and make the CWS maybe once in 5-6 years. No conference championships. Maybe a tournament championship every once in a while. If you are okay with those results, by all means let's keep Cohen. Btw Goat, I was using sarcasm after Engie basically stated our baseball program sucks and Cohen is the best coach we can get for poor ol State.

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Originally Posted by engie

No we don't.


No we don't.


How many times has State been in the past 17 or so?

I guess you will agree that Ole Miss has a superior football program to us -- for the same reasons of your current argument?

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LOL, that's classic right there.

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Originally Posted by CadaverDawg

What a drama queen.

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Nice refute. But maybe I'll be wrong about something baseball-related this year at some point. I mean, it's a long season, and I can only bat 1.000 for so long before I miss on something. I know you'll be sure to let me know when that time comes.

But you already think you know more baseball than John Cohen, so...

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Originally Posted by MarketingBully

A $55 million state of the art stadium to an already great baseball school power = a top five program. Yet the results will stay the same if we keep Cohen. Make the tournament regularly, host occasionally and make the CWS maybe once in 5-6 years. No conference championships. Maybe a tournament championship every once in a while. If you are okay with those results, by all means let's keep Cohen. Btw Goat, I was using sarcasm after Engie basically stated our baseball program sucks and Cohen is the best coach we can get for poor ol State.

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Fahr Cohenz!?!? Good thing he has a $55 million picture on the wall without an announced ground breaking to help him recruit his 11.7 though!1!

You are a damn moron without a lick of perspective on SEC/college baseball. But I already knew that when you took the initial position.

What the morons that don't understand the game over at D1Baseball have to say about it. http://www.d1baseball.com/analysis/t...y-the-numbers/

The same Arkansas team that will lay an egg and finish close to last in the west this year? Also, get back to me on A&M when their entire starting lineup is gone next year. Wouldn't surprise me if they get tripped up before they can even make the CWS.

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Originally Posted by engie

Nice refute. But maybe I'll be wrong about something baseball-related this year at some point. I mean, it's a long season, and I can only bat 1.000 for so long before I miss on something. I know you'll be sure to let me know when that time comes.

But you already think you know more baseball than John Cohen, so...

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Do you see the irony in this post? Wow, what a douche post. Ha

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Originally Posted by maroonmania

The simpler explanation is that our back end pitching is just not very good, which its not. Humphreys is decent but even he got knocked around yesterday. Outside of Hudson, Sexton and Rigby, there is really not a pitcher we have that you can send to the mound and not be fearful they will implode.

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Too many fielding errors and the pitchers had a few of them.

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Originally Posted by MarketingBully

The same Arkansas team that will lay an egg and finish close to last in the west this year? Also, get back to me on A&M when their entire starting lineup is gone next year. Wouldn't surprise me if they get tripped up before they can even make the CWS.

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Ah -- since overall programs are measured on a one-year on-field success basis. But -- oh -- if they are successful right now -- just wait till next year when they aren't!1 You got me there. Definitely didn't prove my point that everything is an overreaction to whatever is directly behind you**

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Originally Posted by CadaverDawg

Do you see the irony in this post? Wow, what a douche post. Ha

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I see just as much irony in my post as you see it in yours. Ha

But I know that you don't actually want to debate any of it -- so I'll leave you to your minimelt.

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Originally Posted by engie

Ah -- since overall programs are measured on a one-year on-field success basis. You got me there. Definitely didn't prove my point that everything is an overreaction to whatever is directly behind you**

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I was on the keep Cohen and see where it leads us this year before this weekend. This weekend made me realize, A) he is always going to screw with the lineup no matter what talent he has on the team, B) he will never have a good third baseman, C) we will never win a conference championship under him and get a national seed, D) we will always make dumb mistakes on the base paths, and E) we will never get the most out of our talent for three years before they are draft eligible (this still can be turned around. Mangum is the best player that looks like he could be elite for us for three years). I still would give him two years after the ball park is built to see if he can produce something even better then 2013. I'm not for firing him right away. I get most are good with the results he is netting now.

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Originally Posted by engie

I see just as much irony in my post as you see it in yours. Ha

But I know that you don't actually want to debate any of it -- so I'll leave you to your minimelt.

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"Mini-melt"? You mean like having such a severe case of little man syndrome that you cannot carry on a discussion without resorting to name calling and insults? You're such an angry person, you should get that checked out.

Look at how childish and spastic you get just joining any discussion. I have been debating it, and I stand by my posts....nothing you say changes that. Just bc you break down into a conceded, little man, roid rage, doesn't make you right. But keep stomping your feet and maybe you'll get some people that aren't familiar with your ignorant schtick to come out and play in the mud with you little fella.

Seriously, grow up and learn to discuss things like an adult. Your arrogant tantrums are played out. And news flash...people don't stop debating with you bc you win...they stop bc you come across as an angry arrogant douche, so they get tired of your tantrums and just quit. Bc they're adults.

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Originally Posted by CadaverDawg

"Mini-melt"? You mean like having such a severe case of little man syndrome that you cannot carry on a discussion without resorting to name calling and insults? You're such an angry person, you should get that checked out.

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You haven't actually even attempted to discuss anything. I'm the one that resorts to name calling and insults? Yet you were the one that started the name calling in THIS VERY thread. Which you'll conveniently ignore. It's funny that you make all of these accusations -- on the exact same stuff that you already did yourself. Whining about namecalling -- while namecalling.

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Look at how childish and spastic you get just joining any discussion. I have been debating it, and I stand by my posts....nothing you say changes that. Just bc you break down into a conceded, little man, roid rage, doesn't make you right. But keep stomping your feet and maybe you'll get some people that aren't familiar with your ignorant schtick to come out and play in the mud with you little fella.

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Yeah -- since I'm the one that went childish from the very beginning "mr all knowing".

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Seriously, grow up and learn to discuss things like an adult. Your arrogant tantrums are played out.

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I will do that --- just as soon as you do. Deal?

Engie is just a very passionate fan that at least uses logic to support his arguments. I can respect that at least. The only time that logic didn't work in his favor was when he supported giving Rick Ray the chance. That situation worked itself out and we ended up getting a goldmine in Coach Howland who I think is one of the elite college basketball coaches out there. I will admit my judgement has been clouded by emotion of being frustrated with getting swept by a team that was filled with upper classmen. You have made your arguments Engie and convinced me. I concede defeat on this issue. There, we square?

Welp....Lock it.

Eta: never saw the last response... My point wasn't to call you out so much as to call attention to the general overreaction to small pieces of a big pie...

The big picture is that we are about where we need to be and about where I thought we would be. Maybe slightly ahead. And I may have been the most optimistic on this site about this particular team..

And just like that we are 4th in the SEC 1 game out of first in the West.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

We are behind the 8 ball on hosting now. SC and Fla would have to really falter to not host. A&M is gonna host. That leaves us fighting LSU and Vandy for another host spot. Could the SEC get 5? Sure. But we gonna have to really ball out like Chris Jones to get host

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Do we really want to host? This team seems to play better on the road.

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Originally Posted by dawgday166

Do we really want to host? This team seems to play better on the road.

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?I don?t know what it is about the road, but we play better on the road. I?m not sure if it?s a focus issue, or us against the world, or what,? Mississippi State coach John Cohen said. ?Our kids love being in this environment and it?s big time. It means a lot to come in here with the tradition LSU has and our guys really treated this thing like a business trip, and we?ve played well the past two days.?

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Originally Posted by engie

Welp....Lock it.

Eta: never saw the last response... My point wasn't to call you out so much as to call attention to the general overreaction to small pieces of a big pie...

The big picture is that we are about where we need to be and about where I thought we would be. Maybe slightly ahead. And I may have been the most optimistic on this site about this particular team..

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Yeah, I would say I overreacted to what looks like now to be an anomaly weekend vs A&M for this team. I was wrong on Cohen as it is possible he could prove me wrong on a conference championship and national seed this year. I am right though that we can win a national championship in baseball. This freshman class is special and we need to keep "adding to" in the next couple of years and we could win back to back championships here. I know that is getting ahead of myself but if we get three years out of the 2015 class then it would be possible. This is the first recruiting class Cohen has gotten significant contributions from multiple freshmen.

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Originally Posted by dawgday166

Do we really want to host? This team seems to play better on the road.

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I'd like to be seeded ninth host in the regionals and get matched up with the 8 National seed. That would be my ideal scenario. Since the Supers have been introduced, I think only two national seeds have won a national championship. Odds are good the national seed would be upset and we would end up hosting the super anyway.

agreed on all

This incoming class is monumentally large in that regard. Two of those classes back-to-back give us a great chance to win SEC and national titles. Need a little more(I expected more) from the freshman pitchers though. Hopefully they find their confidence in the summer, because they all have the stuff.

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Originally Posted by engie

agreed on all

This incoming class is monumentally large in that regard. Two of those classes back-to-back give us a great chance to win SEC and national titles. Need a little more(I expected more) from the freshman pitchers though. Hopefully they find their confidence in the summer, because they all have the stuff.

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Is Jared Padgett hurt? I expected more from him. He turned down the third round to come to MSU. He seems like a great kid. I think he will be another great starter for us in the future from this class.

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Originally Posted by msstate7

?I don?t know what it is about the road, but we play better on the road. I?m not sure if it?s a focus issue, or us against the world, or what,? Mississippi State coach John Cohen said. ?Our kids love being in this environment and it?s big time. It means a lot to come in here with the tradition LSU has and our guys really treated this thing like a business trip, and we?ve played well the past two days.?

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I just read that too on D1 baseball (after I made my post). We've lost to horrible RPI teams at home and got swept by A&M ... so I'm leaning toward not hosting personally. I just don't think we play as well at home as on the road. They do seem to have a better focus and resiliency on the road.

Edited to add: Maybe it's because their girlfriends can't travel with them. Can't get laid ... so might as well go win a baseball game LOL.