Today is another great example against bunting

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

A now four page thread on bunting and our offense being bad. In a game where we allowed 11 runs and scored 8 not to mention having a home run stolen. Predictable.

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Look back, I said the same, poured gas on the fire for the idiot.

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Originally Posted by Dawg61

Before this season started I made the prediction that Cohen would be fired at the end of this season. Is it really that difficult for you to understand?

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Well go read your first post. That's not what you said. Try proof reading or editing.

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Originally Posted by Dawg62

Adding two retards into the mix doesn't make the mixture any smarter. I figured the head bunt defender would show up at some point.

Defending the bunt since 2011: Todd4Bunts

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So, 8 runs is a bad offense? And I'm the "retard"? From the the guy that thinks you hit by looking for curveballs and then adjust to the fastball? Got it.

That's like Corky calling me retarded.

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Originally Posted by Dawg62

If we have 1 second left we don't call a play for Gavin to shoot a 3. It's about the play call!!!!! Not random, a coach's CALL!

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Well Cohen doesn't get to bat Robson or Mangum in every bunt situation, thanks for proving my point. Last night we needed a run vs a guy no hitting us late in the game. Collins and Hump with a man in scoring position is our best chance, and Kruger just happened to be "up" at that point. Cohen did the right thing there.

Until you and Coach admit that there ARE times where a bunt is acceptable (even by one of your good hitters at times) in college baseball, you will never be accurate nor taken seriously about baseball. Simple as that. Cohen makes too many bonehead bunt calls, but last night wasn't one of them....arguing otherwise is simply wanting another thing to bitch at Cohen about.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

So, 8 runs is a bad offense? And I'm the "retard"? From the the guy that thinks you hit by looking for curveballs and then adjust to the fastball? Got it.

That's like Corky calling me retarded.

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Retard.

Again it's about MAXIMIZING your runs. Yeah 8 runs should be enough but like coach said sometimes you gotta win 51-50. When you are capable of scoring 11 but handcuff yourself into 8. That's a problem. Cohen can't pitch it for them. What can Cohen control? Calling ****ing bunts. Retard

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Originally Posted by Homedawg

Look back, I said the same, poured gas on the fire for the idiot.

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I did and I 100% agree with you.

It's an agenda at this point- and pretty laughable.

My other favorite gem from Will James was about how we shouldn't bunt because Cohen can't control the pitching- despite the fact that pitching statistically has a very distinct advantage over the hitters considering the best of the best are successful at it roughly 30%-35% of the time. I doubt we'll see any statical analysis in his favor on that.

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Originally Posted by CadaverDawg

Well Cohen doesn't get to bat Robson or Mangum in every bunt situation, thanks for proving my point. Last night we needed a run vs a guy no hitting us late in the game. Collins and Hump with a man in scoring position is our best chance, and Kruger just happened to be "up" at that point. Cohen did the right thing there.

Until you and Coach admit that there ARE times where a bunt is acceptable (even by one of your good hitters at times) in college baseball, you will never be accurate nor taken seriously about baseball. Simple as that. Cohen makes too many bonehead bunt calls, but last night wasn't one of them....arguing otherwise is simply wanting another thing to bitch at Cohen about.

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It's about calling the right things with the right players holy shit.

By bunting Kruger we lessened our chances of scoring from 49% to 47%. How ****ing hard is that to understand.

Bunt Belmont late in the game if there is no other option to pinch hit (Cody Brown, Mangum, etc)

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Originally Posted by basedog

I would say U R my little bitch but there R way more saying U R there bitch! Dude U do have the little man disease bad!

Now go kiss UR little boyfriend and say good night!

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Every time you type I'm reminded the importance of staying in school past an elementary level. Please tell me you don't possess a degree from the same university as myself. If you do that's an embarrassment to all MSU alumni that you're walking around or hovering around in this country. I'll send you money to tell nobody you graduated from MSU if indeed that is the case.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

I did and I 100% agree with you.

It's an agenda at this point- and pretty laughable.

My other favorite gem from Will James was about how we shouldn't bunt because Cohen can't control the pitching- despite the fact that pitching statistically has a very distinct advantage over the hitters considering the best of the best are successful at it roughly 30%-35% of the time. I doubt we'll see any statical analysis in his favor on that.

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You are ****ing stupid and cannot comprehend written English.

We should have about 15 sac bunts during the year. Not 60.

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Originally Posted by Dawg62

It's about calling the right things with the right players holy shit.

By bunting Kruger we lessened our chances of scoring from 49% to 47%. How ****ing hard is that to understand.

Bunt Belmont late in the game if there is no other option to pinch hit (Cody Brown, Mangum, etc)

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No we didn't. By bunting Kruger we increased our chances by a lot in THAT GAME. We were being no hit. Your Sabermetrucs don't always overrule key situations, like when you're being no hit and you have a chance at getting a RISP for your best hitters.

We can agree to disagree, bc until you quit thinking everything is stats based you'll never get it.

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Originally Posted by Dawg62

Retard.

Again it's about MAXIMIZING your runs. Yeah 8 runs should be enough but like coach said sometimes you gotta win 51-50. When you are capable of scoring 11 but handcuff yourself into 8. That's a problem. Cohen can't pitch it for them. What can Cohen control? Calling ****ing bunts. Retard

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Cohen also can't hit it for them. Cohen can control which pitchers he puts into the game however- which using statistical analysis does give us a better chance if they are used properly. Like not trying every freshman pitcher on the roster. Pitching is FAR more controlled than hitting because the pitching coach TELLS the pitcher what pitch to throw and decides which pitcher pitches.

And I will also say that if you score 8 runs a game you are going to win the majority of them. I don't give a damn how many times you bunt. 11 runs allowed by a pitching staff is simply unacceptable- and blaming a loss on a bunt in that situation is laughable at best.

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Originally Posted by Dawg61

Rick Ray was laughing too

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Double lulz

You're so far gone you honestly can't understand how insane you sound. Comparing Cohen to Ray, holy crap.

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Originally Posted by Dawg61

Every time you type I'm reminded the importance of staying in school past an elementary level. Please tell me you don't possess a degree from the same university as myself. If you do that's an embarrassment to all MSU alumni that you're walking around or hovering around in this country. I'll send you money to tell nobody you graduated from MSU if indeed that is the case.

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Nothing like pissing off a little bitch, definitely shows why your boyfriend calls U Pee Wee!

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Originally Posted by Dawg62

You are ****ing stupid and cannot comprehend written English.

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Simmer down and get a girlfriend. Preferably one that played softball so that she can actually teach you something about baseball.

And not surprising that this is your go to when you are wrong. Pitcher ALWAYS has the advantage statistically. Even if it's Ted Williams.

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Originally Posted by Dawg62

When you bunt one man over your odds of scoring drop from 49% to 47%. Any disagreement like you are exhibiting here is just saying **** math and logic.

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Well I haven't done statistical research and I'm not sure how those numbers you quoted were attained but 8 or 9 out of 10 managers would bunt in the late innings of a game like yesterday if the leadoff man got on. I find it hard to rail against Cohen for something the vast majority of baseball coaches would do.

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Originally Posted by Dawg62

It's about calling the right things with the right players holy shit.

By bunting Kruger we lessened our chances of scoring from 49% to 47%. How ****ing hard is that to understand.

Bunt Belmont late in the game if there is no other option to pinch hit (Cody Brown, Mangum, etc)

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So pinch hit Belmont for Kruger? He doesn't get to choose who hits, & u don't take Kruger's bat out in the 6th.

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Originally Posted by CadaverDawg

No we didn't. By bunting Kruger we increased our chances by a lot in THAT GAME.

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That's simply not true. Because the pitcher was above average it actually hurt our chances more than normal. Your thinking is flawed.

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Originally Posted by Dawg62

We should have about 15 sac bunts during the year. Not 60.

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I agree, but lastnight's could be one of the 15. Today's never should happen.

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Originally Posted by CadaverDawg

So pinch hit Belmont for Kruger? He doesn't get to choose who hits, & u don't take Kruger's bat out in the 6th.

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Can you read? You asked for a time when to bunt. I said that time would be with Belmont late in the game if there are no other options available off the bench.

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Originally Posted by Dawg62

That's simply not true. Because the pitcher was above average it actually hurt our chances more than normal. Your thinking is flawed.

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No you're wrong. Sorry

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Originally Posted by Dawg62

Can you read? You asked for a time when to bunt. I said that time would be with Belmont late in the game if there are no other options available off the bench.

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I didn't ask shit. I KNOW. It was a good time to

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

Based on the hitters batting average- I'd guess somewhere 30-35% for most of our players.

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Wut? A .350 hitter doesn't hit .350 if all he's facing is a pitcher whose given up no hits. Damn did you really just type that? Haha

Speaking of bunting... Bama just bunted runner to 2nd with 1 out down 2 in the 7th.

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Originally Posted by Dawg61

Wut? A .350 hitter doesn't hit .350 if all he's facing is a pitcher whose given up no hits. Damn did you really just type that? Haha

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I'm speaking in very broad general terms against all pitchers both good and bad.


But to your point, if you have a hitter that does not hit a pitcher very well- let's say .125 against a certain pitcher it might make sense to have the player bunt in that case. I still wouldn't have a guy like Kruger bunt but a guy that is not a power hitter it would make sense.

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Originally Posted by CadaverDawg

I agree, but lastnight's could be one of the 15. Today's never should happen.

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I'll track how this plays out- but the top 4 teams right now in Sac bunts are 1st, 5th, ninth, and 14th in the SEC in runs scored

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Originally Posted by maroonmania

Well I haven't done statistical research and I'm not sure how those numbers you quoted were attained but 8 or 9 out of 10 managers would bunt in the late innings of a game like yesterday if the leadoff man got on. I find it hard to rail against Cohen for something the vast majority of baseball coaches would do.

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Great argument lol. I see the numbers but my anecdotal evidence trumps it. Fool.

And no most would not have bunted Kruger. And no, the 6th is not late in the game. Fool.

http://www.boydsworld.com/data/ert.html

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Originally Posted by Coach34

I'll track how this plays out- but the top 4 teams right now in Sac bunts are 1st, 5th, ninth, and 14th in the SEC in runs scored

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Not going to be a meaningful correlation

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Originally Posted by msstate7

Speaking of bunting... Bama just bunted runner to 2nd with 1 out down 2 in the 7th.

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Just because two retards do something doesn't mean it's not retarded.

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Originally Posted by Dawg62

Great argument lol. I see the numbers but my anecdotal evidence trumps it. Fool.

And no most would not have bunted Kruger. And no, the 6th is not late in the game. Fool.

http://www.boydsworld.com/data/ert.html

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I see that Boyd neglected to mention the absolutely dead baseballs that were used in 2011-2012. I'm sure that had no effect on the runs being down at all.

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Originally Posted by Dawg62

Great argument lol. I see the numbers but my anecdotal evidence trumps it. Fool.

And no most would not have bunted Kruger. And no, the 6th is not late in the game. Fool.

http://www.boydsworld.com/data/ert.html

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Ok, if you are going to act like a prick about it then I'm done with having a conversation with you. Will just leave it that any idiot who has watched baseball over a lifetime would know that IN THAT SITUATION the majority of managers would move the runner over.

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Originally Posted by CadaverDawg

No you're wrong. Sorry

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Why don't you prove it.

See: our 2012 SEC bunting. We bunted a man to 2nd 32 times and only scored 6 times. Pathetically absurd. Why? Couldn't hit. Against better pitching or with worse hitting bunting is MORE harmful.

I'm done arguing with people that don't know baseball can be situational. It's not always cut and dry. Someone that relies solely on sabermetrics will never understand situational baseball. When you're facing a guy dealing a no hitter through 6, you don't just rely on the laws of sabermetrics to average out in order to win...sometimes you have to mix things up and try to manufacture something on offense. That is baseball...especially college baseball.

I agree that Cohen bunts FAR too often, so I'm not defending his style...it sucks and pisses me off. But last night had nothing to do with style, and everything to do with situation in my mind. Cohen may have been doing it just to Cohen, but it was acceptable given the situation.

Today was totally different. THAT was Cohening, and it was the worst cohening I've seen.

Some people let their dislike of Cohen's scheme affect their entire mindset during EVERY situation of EVERY game. Those people will not be happy until we win a Natty without anyone sac bunting all year except our 9 hole hitter 2-3 times. So they will NEVER be happy until Cohen is gone. I'm not arguing them anymore, but I will state that they're wrong when they're wrong.

It is what it is. Oh, and there are few players in college baseball that are totally immune to bunting. None reside on our team. And they would ALL tell you they would gladly lay one down to win a game. That's guys that play the game, not just read a book and watch MoneyBall. Y'all have fun arguing.

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Originally Posted by basedog

Nothing like pissing off a little bitch, definitely shows why your boyfriend calls U Pee Wee!

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Did you tell your wife thank you for typing that last message for you? Maybe y'all were able to share a laugh together for the first time since you dropped your pants 3 years ago in front of her. Keep it up and you might just get a treat tonight after Golden Girls is done.

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Originally Posted by maroonmania

Ok, if you are going to act like a prick about it then I'm done with having a conversation with you. Will just leave it that any idiot who has watched baseball over a lifetime would know that IN THAT SITUATION the majority of managers would move the runner over.

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So you failed math, logic, statistics, AND debate.

Bunting one man over in the 6th inning with Lon Kruger is the wrong call 100% of the time. Even if we were playing a 7 inning game.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

I'll track how this plays out- but the top 4 teams right now in Sac bunts are 1st, 5th, ninth, and 14th in the SEC in runs scored

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Your point? Nobody is saying we don't sac bunt too much. We sac bunt WAY too much and I hate it. Don't change the subject and debate. Nobody is saying we don't sac bunt to much or that Cohen doesn't meddle too much. Let's make that clear.

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Originally Posted by Dawg62

Just because two retards do something doesn't mean it's not retarded.

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Fwiw, bama tied the game 2 batters later after Tennessee walked the next hitter

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Originally Posted by CadaverDawg

I'm done arguing with people that don't know baseball can be situational. It's not always cut and dry. Someone that relies solely on sabermetrics will never understand situational baseball. When you're facing a guy dealing a no hitter through 6, you don't just rely on the laws of sabermetrics to average out in order to win...sometimes you have to mix things up and try to manufacture something on offense. That is baseball...especially college baseball.

I agree that Cohen bunts FAR too often, so I'm not defending his style...it sucks and pisses me off. But last night had nothing to do with style, and everything to do with situation in my mind. Cohen may have been doing it just to Cohen, but it was acceptable given the situation.

Today was totally different. THAT was Cohening, and it was the worst cohening I've seen.

Some people let their dislike of Cohen's scheme affect their entire mindset during EVERY situation of EVERY game. Those people will not be happy until we win a Natty without anyone sac bunting all year except our 9 hole hitter 2-3 times. So they will NEVER be happy until Cohen is gone. I'm not arguing them anymore, but I will state that they're wrong when they're wrong.

It is what it is. Oh, and there are few players in college baseball that are totally immune to bunting. None reside on our team. And they would ALL tell you they would gladly lay one down to win a game. That's guys that play the game, not just read a book and watch MoneyBall. Y'all have fun arguing.

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This is a damn strong post.

I need to spread some more rep points before I give you some more my friend.

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Originally Posted by CadaverDawg

I'm done arguing with people that don't know baseball can be situational. It's not always cut and dry. Someone that relies solely on sabermetrics will never understand situational baseball. When you're facing a guy dealing a no hitter through 6, you don't just rely on the laws of sabermetrics to average out in order to win...sometimes you have to mix things up and try to manufacture something on offense. That is baseball...especially college baseball.

I agree that Cohen bunts FAR too often, so I'm not defending his style...it sucks and pisses me off. But last night had nothing to do with style, and everything to do with situation in my mind. Cohen may have been doing it just to Cohen, but it was acceptable given the situation.

Today was totally different. THAT was Cohening, and it was the worst cohening I've seen.

Some people let their dislike of Cohen's scheme affect their entire mindset during EVERY situation of EVERY game. Those people will not be happy until we win a Natty without anyone sac bunting all year except our 9 hole hitter 2-3 times. So they will NEVER be happy until Cohen is gone. I'm not arguing them anymore, but I will state that they're wrong when they're wrong.

It is what it is. Oh, and there are few players in college baseball that are totally immune to bunting. None reside on our team. And they would ALL tell you they would gladly lay one down to win a game. That's guys that play the game, not just read a book and watch MoneyBall. Y'all have fun arguing.

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Exactly, like MOST of the time you haven't gone the first 5 innings without getting even ONE hit. So yesterday was not a common situation.