This wasn't a surprise. I don't begrudge Mullen nor Turner! Both handled this with like friends and pros.
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This wasn't a surprise. I don't begrudge Mullen nor Turner! Both handled this with like friends and pros.
This offense was as disappointing as any at MSU. They were still pretty good -- but they were expected to be alot better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawgtini
I don't know how you can argue that there is a double standard there on the pressure we put on guys. Until 2014, MSU had never had an offense statistically better than the defense nationally. I had shown that before.
DL - 09 - Turner
10 - 12 - Wilson
13 - 15 - Turner
16 - ?
LB - 09 - Torbush
10 - Diaz
11 - 14 Collins
15 - Diaz
16 - Sirmon
S - 09 - 15 Hughes
16 - Linguist
CB - 09 - 12 - Smith
13 - 15 - Townsend
16 - Buckley
DC - 09 - Torbush
10 - Diaz
11 - 12 - Wilson
13 - 14 - Collins
15 - Diaz
16 - Sirmon
OL - 09 - 16 - Hevesy
RB - 09 - 16 - Knox
TE - 09 - 16 - Sallach
WR - 09 - 10 - Hudspeth
11 - Mirando
12 - Brewster
13 - 15 - Gonzalez
QB - 09 - 13 - Koenning
14 - 16 - Johnson
OC - 09 - 13 - Koenning
Pretty clear difference in the standards we are holding guys to there...
We should have kept Torbush? Diaz leaves for Texas after 1 year. You think we should have kept Wilson? Collins goes to Florida and Diaz to his hometown of Miami. Without context you make a valid point but when you list each DC and what happened the narrative is much different than what you want to paint.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
Yep!Quote:
Originally Posted by Really Clark?
boom! Thanks, coach.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach
It's not that we lose guys -- it's that we lose guys that we want to keep to lateral moves.
If we were losing the underperformers at an equal rate instead of keeping them entire tenures -- I'd be 100% fine with everything that's happening. Just hate to keep losing good coaches while coaches that I think much lower of manage to stick around and get raises...
Haven't we pretty confidently had the best offenses in school history under Mullen? Maybe his buddies are better than they are getting credit?
Quote:
Originally Posted by engie
This all day. If he left to go be a DC or even an HC, then sure go for it. But this move is lateral at best and if the reports are true he's taking less money.
Can someone name all the guys who weren't forced out that left in lateral moves? Off the top of my head, I can think of Turner twice, and then you can argue Diaz to Miami. That's it.Quote:
Originally Posted by engie
Look, I don't know why everyone is so surprised about this. Mullen is going to be a 7-8 win coach for the foreseeable future at MSU in most years. We may vary to 6 wins or even 9 or 10 in certain seasons depending on the strength of the competition but we are what we are and its not going to change. I'm not going to get pissed about it because we have certainly been much worse and the SEC is tougher than its ever been to win at a high level. Our offense will always be pretty good but keeping coaches like Hev and Sallach based on friendship will keep us from getting to max potential because we can't get the talent at the OL to sign with us that we need to be big time. They really drag down the recruiting potential, especially Hev. On defense, we will be average most of the time and a training ground for defensive coaches who are constantly looking for other jobs because Mullen dumps on them, we don't pay top dollar to assistants, and we aren't a truly "high profile" program in the minds of a lot of assistants. We are a minor bowl team most years under Mullen and most MSU fans will be happier if they just accept that. I've long moved on from the "building a championship program" mantra that Mullen started out with. Mullen and staff don't/can't recruit at a high enough level nor do we hire and retain top assistants at a level necessary to routinely compete for championships in the SEC. At this point I've resigned myself to it being sort of what it is. There is only so much "coaching up" you can do when you can't retain continuity among the staff and you are missing too many top recruiting targets at key positions. And like I said, there are much worse things at MSU that winning 7 to 8 football games most years because I've lived through a lot of it.
Who? Who have we lost to lateral moves? Collins? No. He left for a team loaded with defensive talent who has a higher ceiling for lay. Was it Townsend? Going to the NFL?? Who are all of these lateral move coaches?Quote:
Originally Posted by engie
So really, I don't see any MAJOR problem. Would more continuity be nice? Sure, but almost everyone listed above made a career improvement in title, location, or family life.Quote:
Originally Posted by engie
You can't even argue Diaz.... The guy went home!Quote:
Originally Posted by smootness
There is the problem. Your opinion, or mine, of the "other coaches" doesn't mean squat. It's Mullen's ass, not ours. He gets to make the call. We have to live with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by engie
MSU to Texas or Miami is a lateral move? We may see it that way but most don't. That is a fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by engie
I think that some of our fans consider these lateral moves when they really are not considered lateral in the coaching circles. Florida DC is an upgrade in prestige. Texas DC is an upgrade in prestige and pay. Miami DC is an upgrade in prestige. Texas A&M is an upgrade in prestige. Head coach is an upgrade in prestige. NFL db coach is an upgrade in prestige. Some of the pay is the same because we now have SEC money and can pay with the likes of anyone, but it is easier to win at other spots and it is considered an easier spot to work your way up at these other jobs our coaches are taking. We can stick our head in the sand all that we want, but MSU is not a destination spot for the overwhelming amount of people we are looking to hire.
What percentage accross the country are not lateral? Steele leaves LSU for Auburn. That's at least lateral. Chavis left last year for A & M. Both, same job, same division in the same conference. There are more lateral moves than what many would call promotional.Quote:
Originally Posted by jumbo
I didn't blame Manny the first time he left but after basically being rehired by MSU the second time around when he was almost considered tainted goods I do believe he owed it to MSU to stay at least 3 years. But, in today's world its every man for himself so he did the one and done thing again. Yes, going back to a place where you have some roots is nice but being a man of your word should mean something as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg
Engie, you know better than to think we are about to pay someone $150k more than Turner made last year, in their first year here.Quote:
Originally Posted by engie
I tend to agree with you. Mullen having 1 foot out the door last year probably put a bad taste in our coordinators' mouths. Our headman need to show some long-term commitment to our program somehow. What's his buyout clause? If we really want him long-term, that should be raised.Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgday166
What....? You must think we shouldn't fire anyone either at any time unless their contract runs out. That's our "word"Quote:
Originally Posted by maroonmania
That's not how it was. It's not how it works. I love the people around me, but if one of them came to me and said the had the opportunity to go home and do the same thing. I would stand-up, walk to him and tell him I get it..... In the end, his number 1 priority isn't to me. It's to his family.Quote:
Originally Posted by maroonmania
If you can't grasp that it has nothing to do with a debt that he supposedly owed Mullen and MSU, I don't know what to tell you! Some times life isn't about MSU or football.
Oh look... A bear showed up!Quote:
Originally Posted by Bdawg
YepQuote:
Originally Posted by Coach
If Miami doesn't hire Richt we would have kept Manny. Richt is still a good coach and not a retread hire.
2 thumbs up!!Quote:
Originally Posted by DudyDawg
Whatever, the man can do what he wants but he came back saying he would not leave for another DC position. Heck, I wasn't even asking for that, just give us a few years of continuity before leaving even if it is lateral. What other P5 school was even looking at Manny after the Texas disaster?Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach
One has nothing to do with the other, so why compare the two different situations.Quote:
Originally Posted by Boodawg
We have the opportunity to build something new at MSU with this string of hires. Time to get it put together for the long haul.
Been sick all morning and finally get on the board to this. Geeze.
Not to mention the fact that Turner has been here through like 6 defensive coordinators. That has to be tough working for that many different supervisors over his last 8 years or so.
Who has Mullen EVER fired that was left without a job at another P5 school? Even Torbush ended up at Kansas. Mullen has been much more loyal to his assistants in that regard than the reverse. I know there have been a couple that he has encouraged to "look around" but none were forced out before having a good landing spot. And the situation with Manny was a little different in the sense that we sort of revitalized his career. Using us as a stepping stone twice is not ideal for sure. I really don't have any issue with Turner leaving now, he came in and gave us 3 or 4 good years and moved on, I'm fine with that. Being a one and done twice like Manny, not so much.Quote:
Originally Posted by DudyDawg
I don't know that anybody thought Miami would have been an option for him. It is what it is, andi have seen enough in Mullen to know that he makes great hires and we don't miss a beat. I trust his judgementQuote:
Originally Posted by maroonmania
As has been stated, we are probably hurt more on the recruiting front than actual on field coaching. Mullen makes some pretty good hires so on the field coaching will be fine with the turnover, I'm not too worried about that, however, it does take time to build relationship with HS coaches and that's where we get dinged and we often see the results on signing day. Guys like Hev and Sallach that have been around well, I'm not sure how many HS coaches want a relationship with them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach
Which makes the office recruiting jobs we hired so important. Those guys will be a huge help with an all new staff. All our new hires have strong recruiting reps.Quote:
Originally Posted by maroonmania
That's pretty funny. I know my posts are low but in no way I am a bear. What did I say that would make you think that. Are you saying you don't mind your coach looking around? I sure as hell don't like it! And if I worked under him, I wouldn't like it either. Don't call me a bear again, please.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach
With all of the talk about turnover I thought I would look at efficiency rankings since Mullen took over. Here is what I got from football outsider.com:
Offense Def
2015. 21. 51
2014. 28. 21
2013. 46. 25
2012. 87. 59
2011. 88. 28
2010. 69. 12
2009. 44. 72
Might explain why our D coaches are poached so much. Just thought it was interesting numbers.
Maybe we need to realize that's what we are. At least to a lot of peopleQuote:
Originally Posted by maroonmania
It would be the best move we could make in my opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawgology
Wow. Firing on all cylinders today, Coach. Way too much mature, sensible dialog from you for many of these folks today. +100Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach
Any rational fan knows this and has known this the entire time.Quote:
Originally Posted by DudyDawg