That's Dan's best asset- he simply does not lose to teams he absolutely shouldn't. At the same time, it's uncanny that he very rarely upsets anyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by HancockCountyDog
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That's Dan's best asset- he simply does not lose to teams he absolutely shouldn't. At the same time, it's uncanny that he very rarely upsets anyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by HancockCountyDog
What is the SEC's record against those teams? This post is stupid hell A&M hasn't even been in the league but a few years. What's the record the West teams record against Bama and LSU?Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
Who do you suggest that would be better, and would want to follow Mullen here?Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
Feels like Engie pushed that agenda pretty hard for a year, although he may deny that now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
This is because Dan plays to maximize the odds of scoring the most points instead of maximizing the odds of winning.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
If Dan finds himself down 16 and score he kicks the extra point rather than going for two.
Dan would rather be sure that he loses by 9 than risk losing by 10 and have a chance to win.
Um, that has literally never happened.Quote:
Originally Posted by OurState
I was about to ask for some examples. I don't think it ever happened in the 2nd half of a game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quaoarsking
Ole Miss 2009. 9-4 and won the Cotton Bowl. BITCH.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
LSU 2014 was also 8-4 in the regular season
Auburn 2014 was also 8-4 in the regular season
That Auburn 2007 team had just lost at home to South Florida, and we had gotten blown the eff out by LSU on opening Thursday night. That was about as big of a game as 3-2. Mullen has beaten 10 or more teams that would have beaten that 07 Auburn squad. See Quaoarsking's post for the details.
You asked for one example of Croom beating a good team. I gave you one. BITCH. Never said that Dan "never" won a big game- just that he doesn't do it enough. The circumstances coming into the game itself are irrelevant- but keep trying to move the goal posts. You're simply wrong if you think that Croom never beat a good team when he was here. And I certainly could have used UK 2007 on the road as well. See Quaor's post for details indeed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taog Redloh
We'll see what the coaching landscape is when Dan leaves. The biggest thing I would prefer as a fan is that a coach has head coaching experience- something that Dan lacked coming in and we would have seen his flaws from the start.Quote:
Originally Posted by DancingRabbit
Arkansas State has had some good coaches go to the SEC (Mahlzahn, Freeze)- and I think Blake Anderson would potentially be a promising up and coming type of guy that would likely be interested in our job if we offered it to him.
I don't have my heart set on anybody to be honest with you. Anderson is just an example of the type of coach we should look at. With what we pay and being in the SEC, it shouldn't be that difficult to land a quality coach.
You made a dumb point, just sack up and admit it. By insinuating Mullen has not accomplished something that Croom did, is utterly ridiculous.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
Croom? Seriously Todd? You need to step away from the ledge man.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
I'm not sure many people think Dan is the absolute best that we can possibly do; they're just not stupid enough to think that the way to build a championship program is to fire your coach anytime you think he's not the absolute best you can do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
Miami has a student body of 10k that's largely graduate students that have allegiances to other schools that they attended for undergrad. It's in a pro city. They couldn't steal Dan Mullen from Miss State and they damn sure can't steal a recruit from Florida or Florida State. Their student body probably puts 5k butts in the stadium weekly, if they're lucky. You know why they won't move the stadium on campus? Because a game in the ghetto would actually lower attendance. Further, there players always have been and always will be out for numero uno. Sapp and Irvin aren't building new weight rooms there... And the relevant players from Miami that young guys identify with have almost aged out of relevancy. They have a very short window left to ever take advantage of their brief pimple on the ass of relevancy in the history of college football. It's also an academic school where the administration is more concerned with the school than it is the football program. The football program has actually been nothing but a black eye for the school since the 90's. That doesn't sit well with the academic side of the university. Outside of the professionalization of college football, Miami is dead. People think they can recruit because they're from Florida. Lmao. They're in the corner of a huge state. They can be 12 hours away from an in-state recruit. You think momma's driving 12 hours to Miami or 4 to Auburn?Quote:
Originally Posted by Taog Redloh
The day of corn fed white boys dominating the line of scrimmage for a triple option QB in Lincoln are long gone too. Minnesota isn't coming back. Navy will never win another national championship either (throw Army's irrelevancy in there too). Tulane will never win the SEC again either.
Did you just f@@@@@@ say Gus bus was a good coach? His ass will be fired at the end of next year.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
Check out this list, which is even better:
Completely inexplicable games King Jackie lost (or tied, and we'll keep it over the first 7 years like Mullen):
1991 Memphis 5-6
1992 LSU 2-9
1992 South Carolina 5-6
1994 LSU 4-7
1993 Arkansas State 2-8-1
1995 NE Louisiana 2-9
1996 Louisiana Tech
1996 Arkansas 4-7
1997 Arkansas 4-7
Honorable Mention with a winning record: 1993 Memphis
Completely inexplicable games Croom lost:
2004 Maine record doesn't matter
2004 Vanderbilt 2-9
2004 Arkansas 5-6
2004 Ole Miss 4-7
2005 Kentucky 3-8
2005 Arkansas 4-7
2006 Tulane 4-8 plus Katrina
2008 Auburn 5-7
Honorable Mentions with winning records: 2004 UAB, 2005 Houston, 2008 Louisiana Tech
Completely inexplicable games Mullen lost:
.....
only thing that comes close is 2009 Houston, and they were 10-4 and C-USA runner-ups
Honorable Mention with winning records: 2012 Ole Miss
No. But you've already misrepresented my position then -- so keep on keeping on.Quote:
Originally Posted by OurState
And people tend to have pumped then number of Jackie's "Big Wins" up in their heads too. Following Quaosars' lead -Quote:
Originally Posted by Taog Redloh
'91 None
'92 TX 6-5
'92 Memphis 6-5
'92 UF 9-4
'93 None
'94 Memphis 6-5
'94 SC 7-5
'95 Baylor 7-4
'96 SC 6-5
'96 Bama 10-3
'97 AU 10-3
'98 Bama 8-5
'98 Ark 9-3
'98 OM 7-5
'99 UK 6-6
'99 OM 8-4
'99 Clemson 6-6
'00 BYU 6-6
'00 UF 10-3
'00 AU 9-4
'00 A&M 7-5
'01 OM 7-4
'02 None
'03 Memphis 9-4
Yes, Jackie pulled off a few Big wins - normally negated by at least 1 (if not more) WTF loses. But, we are really only taking about 4-5 total games in 12 years against high quality teams - '92 UF, '96 Bama, '97 AU, '98 Ark, '00 UF, '00 AU
Their administration has killed them. From what I can tell, their athletic department hasn't been as autonomous as most and the university as a whole has been less reluctant to recognize the value of their athletic department being a business (hence the resistance to paying a big boy salary for a football coach when they interviewed Mullen the first time). I think they are over that now or else why would they have been willing to interview Mullen again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Political Hack
I think people think they can recruit because they are in Miami. They have plenty of rich alumni that if they are interested, can finance a good recruiting network. Look at the pulls UM has gotten from reasonably far away from Oxford. You think the U couldn't find plenty of top rated recruits willing to come to South Beach? They will probably have to move slowly because of their recent NCAA problems, but if they hire the right coach and are committed to paying for good talent, I think they can come back. Maybe not have a dominant stretch or even championship team, but relevant nationally again. I'm not predicting that this will happen, but it's certainly within reach, even if they are stuck with pretty mediocre facilities. I do think that if they come back they will always be volatile. They would have all the issues that UM has with getting players mainly interested in the highest bid, but compounded by the fact that they are getting players to whom the city of Miami is appealing, so they'll likely always have some issues with discipline on and off the field if they go that route.Quote:
Originally Posted by Political Hack
The SEC and it's money has lifted State up a good bit higher than we were in 1991 when Jackie took over. Not quite an apple to apples comparison.
When Jackie came in- we had a 35K capacity stadium that we didn't fill. We weren't top 50 in budget as we are now. Teams like Memphis and La Tech were on a much closer level to us than they are now. Hell, Jackie's 1st year is the first year the Egg Bowl moved back to campus.
Actually, I did, and said as much on Rivals message board. It's what triggered the ensuing fight that reminded me why I hated TSUN so much from the 80's, and started a war with their fans that has me the most-hated poster on that board for TSUN fans.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
I had actually softened my stance on them after decades of being away from home after graduation. I was even complementary about them in 2008, making posts about how underrated they were and predicting they were going to easily handle Texas Tech in the CB.
But the following year, after watching a few games, I stated they were a little overrated that year, and that I thought we were actually better, despite our record, and would beat them in the Egg Bowl. The moment I said the slightest thing uncomplimentary about OM, their fans went ape-shit on me, getting highly personal and ugly, a few so much so that they were banned from Rivals.
That delusional bunch is a real piece-of-work. As long as you say nice things about them, you're a good dude, but the moment you say, even respectfully, anything critical of their team, they can't just disagree or debate you, they feel the need to destroy you personally, attacking, not your comments, but YOU. They make it, again, personal and ugly. They aren't capable of winning an argument on the merits, so they relentlessly attack the messenger, rather than the message.
That was the year I got reminded why I justifiably hated those arrogant, obnoxious, delusional a-holes all those years ago. I will never again forget or tamp down on my hate for those morons.
GTHOM! GTHUNM!
Yes and we get an extra cupcake win now. Plus 80 teams make bowl games.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
Oh, you want to keep playing......OK I'll keep going too....
Bottom line in this game, it's all about what you win, right? So let's look at bottom line accomplishments:
Record in 1st 7 years:
King Jackie: 47-38-2 (.540), 23-31-1 (.418)
Mullen: 54-35 (.607), 26-30 (.464)
I gave KJ 7 more wins to make up for the 12 game schedule (12th game is the FCS game for Mullen). SEC record also factors out SEC money. You lose.
Hardware in 1st 7 years:
King Jackie: no significant bowl wins, 4 Eggs, 1 3-loss regular season in 1994
Mullen: 1 Gator Bowl win, 4 Eggs, 1 2-loss regular season in 2014
Better overall record and more tangible accomplishments.....this is no contest. It's not a blow-out, but no tangible evidence shows King Jackie was better in his 1st 7 years than Mullen. You lose again.
Logic would say, give Mullen a chance to out-do Jackie in his next couple of years.....when ended up being the best of his tenure. You SHOULD be excited, but instead you are a negative blowhard.
Do you want to talk about NFL draft picks next?
ETA: I'll go ahead and do that one for you too. King Jackie had 20, Mullen had 17. But, wait......Jones, Prescott and Redmond count too. Not to mention Wilson, Brown or Ross.
I'll acknowledge some of what you're saying, but we had 40K capacity when Jackie arrived. And the year before Dan arrived we were averaging 43K.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
The SEC money has lifted us above the mid-major teams, but just like always we are still in the bottom 2 or 3 in the SEC. And mid-major teams still rise up and beat SEC teams - see Memphis and Toledo.
I do agree that it's reasonable to expect Dan to pull off some big upsets, while still beating the teams he's supposed to beat.
So we should expect 1998 and 1999 type results in 2016 and 2017. Sweet. Where should I book in Atlanta? Also, the bears are going to be pissed that they are about to get blown out at home next year.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taog Redloh
You know what's better than upsets? Beating good teams because you're better than them.
Dan could've lost some extra games in 2014 and then our wins over LSU and Auburn, etc., could have been upsets in hindsight. But I'm glad they weren't.
There are several variables when trying to compare different era's. Like mentioned our budget has grown a lot since Jackie's time, etc. Jackie also didn't have to compete in a West division that at least during 2010-2013 was by far the most brutal of any division in the history of college football. The number of 10 win teams in our division alone was incredible. I looked at it one time and Dan has had to play against more 10+ win teams in his tenure than Jackie did over the course of his entire time here. By a surprising margin. An upset would be great and it's past time but there have been more than one year when you had multiple legit national title powers going at it. That 2010 team in any other conference or even just in the SEC east probably wins 10-11 reg season games. The West that year through 2013 really was churning out some mind boggling teams.
I'll say this again:Quote:
Originally Posted by HancockCountyDog
Pay attention to the last part. It particularly applies to you too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taog Redloh
If I remember correctly, the end of 1997 resulted in a home Egg loss as well, which sent Ole Miss to a bowl game and kept us at home. Plus, we got beat up in the pre-game fight. We recovered from that pretty well, didn't we?
I see no reason not to expect success going forward in the next 2 years. We've recruited well, and have depth at QB.
We're going to be picked 7th in SEC West in preseason next year- and I cant say I disagree. I cant say any other team with what they have returning should finish lower than usQuote:
Originally Posted by Taog Redloh
1. We were picked 7th this year.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
2. I don't think your definition of success and his are the same.
I don't disagree, but we don't look to be in that much different shape than pretty much any other west team besides Bama. Arkansas is losing their very good Qb, UM is losing a lot, A&M is flirting with dumpster fire, auburn is flirting with dumpster fire. The West is Bama and everybody else. Everybody but Bama looks like they will take a step backwards next year or it's not obvious they'll be better. Obviously somebody will end up having a better year than expected, but it's not clear who at this point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
Us being picked 7th doesn't mean anything except that we're not looking like a top team in the West, which is pretty much what is required for us to be picked something other than last in the preseason. I'm not expecting good things next year, but getting picked 7th by people that are almost always wrong doesn't make me feel any worse.
If you look at next year's roster and you can see a Floyd Womack or a Randy Thomas on the OL or a JJ Johnson at RB, and then see a defense that has been shredded the last two times it has taken the field, even with a first round talent on the DL, an NFL draft pick at corner, and you see things as projecting towards a 1998 season, then great.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taog Redloh
I don't see it.
LSU is not taking a step backwards. They still don't have a QB, but they are loaded at every other position and are bringing in the top recruiting class in the country.Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnson85
The days of a team like our 98 team going to Atl are long gone. They were 6-2 like Mullen last year. That doesn't cut it anymore. JWS got it while the gettin was good (as did Nutt with Arky for that matter).Quote:
Originally Posted by HancockCountyDog
LSU is returning 15-16 starters and bringing in a top 3 recruiting class to go with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by HancockCountyDog
Auburn is returning 15 starters and both QB's. Their Crooting class is 7th in the country right now
UPig loses their QB but returns 15-16 starters- including 9 on D.
A&M returns 16 starters- has to answer QB question. But they are loaded at WR and on the DL.
OM loses alot- but returns their QB and has a top 5 recruiting class
Bama is Bama
The SEC West should be improved next year
Depends on how much Miles is a lame duck coach. And they have recruited well the last 3 years. 6th, 2nd, and 5th in the country to go with these last 2 8 win seasons. It's quite possible they don't win any more than that next year. However, Miles may be the type of coach to overcome a lame duck year because he is such a players coach. It's 50/50 at best that they win more than 9 next year. Which is pretty average for them recruiting above Top 5 on average the last three years.Quote:
Originally Posted by HancockCountyDog
And should we finish 7th- and a 4th loss in 5 years to Freezus...he doesnt need to be fired. But 2017 would be his make or break year
Based on our depth chart we return 13,14 starters as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
yes- but who we lose is the problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ifyouonlyknew
The West is going to be improved next year- even with all the questions teams have. Lots of starters returning across the board.
This has been circulating and I think a bear put it together and I have been hesitant to post it because the board was on suicide watch most of Christmas, but this spreadsheet really is really telling about Mullen's tenure in the SEC. He definitely beats who he should beat and loses to who he should lose to.
http://images.yuku.com/image/jpg/2f7...249def60_r.jpg
What it tells me is that Mullen should send a thank you note to Lexington pretty much every year.
Its also amazing to me that Mullen has only beaten one SEC team with a winning SEC record. Only 5 teams that were .500 or better that he beat. 17 of the 26 SEC teams he has beaten won 2 or less SEC games.
IT's fair to say that Mullen has feasted on some pretty shitty competition.