agree Todd. he has to adjust his approach. If he doesn't, and we lose again, he'll be in hot water.
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agree Todd. he has to adjust his approach. If he doesn't, and we lose again, he'll be in hot water.
Bianco vs Cohen ...
Bianco has coached at OM 14 years and made regionals 12 times, supers 5 times, and cws 1 time. He has a 229-191 record in sec play at OM without throwing out any years. He's won the sec.
Cohen has coached at state 7 years. Cohen has made regionals 4 times, 2 supers, and 1 cws. Cohen has an 87-118 record here in sec play and 72-73 record if you throw out first 2 years.
Anyone have head-to-head record?
I didn't discuss hosting, but Bianco obviously leads.
My point is that Cohen is doing nothing special outside of '13. Same state, same scholarship issues, and Bianco is doing it bigger than Cohen at the school that isn't supposed to be the baseball school in this state.
Not advocating firing this year. I think he should get another, but I have no patience next season
best analogy yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
Going 18-12 in the SEC last year was special, at least by our standards (not Vanderbilt's or Florida's or South Carolina's standards, but just judging by our recent history, it was a special conference season for us). Barely missing out on hosting in 2012 and 2014 (I don't understand why everyone has retconned those years into somehow we weren't even close to hosting) is pretty special now that the NCAA lets hosting ride on how good a team's season is, not much much $ and fans it will generate back when Polk I was hosting a lot.
Also, I don't know how to say this, but the idea of us having the divine right to be a better baseball program than Ole Miss is over. They've been a better program than us for nearly 15 years -- not every specific year, but overall. They also outdraw us attendance wise (not in maximum of course, but in average). Sucks, but we can no longer just assume that we're supposed to be better than them. :( I hope we restore that divine right one day, but we don't have it now.
Bianco took over a much, much better situation than what Cohen did. We literally allowed them to overtake us during the Polk II years not to mention Bianco took over a team that had just barely missed a regional.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
Bianco also never had to deal with Polk or fans worried about cussing in the dugout and a split fanbase when he first arrived.
If you throw out Cohen's first two years, we have been better than Ole Miss has been over the past five years. Ole Miss has been better than us this year- but I highly doubt they go any further than a regional with their pitching.
Because certain people on this board have an agenda and they know that they look stupid because of that whole CWS/SR elephant that is in the room so they have to try to focus on something that hasn't actually been done- even though that is a lower standard than what has actually been accomplished and in the grand scheme means very little.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quaoarsking
You want to know why he's lost the team? You really want to know. Is it because the players are "pussies"? No. I really doubt that. It's because they know, they KNOW that his methods do not lead to success.
You think they get sick and tired of his meddling with their shit leading to less success? You bet. You think Vickerson might be a little irked after being forced to sac bunt 3 times in a row? You don't think the players know his whole approach is making it LESS LIKELY for them to enjoy success.
That's really the only reason why you would "lose a team"... When the team doesn't believe you are giving them the best chance of winning, THAT will lose a team. Like we have seen this year.
I'd like to see the link to the box score where anyone has SAC bunted three times in a row.Quote:
Originally Posted by Smitty
But yeah- you're right. The bullpen has been blowing games because they don't like all of the bunting.
And a couple of other things:
1. A lot of these guys were bunting a lot in JUCO or HS. And then they get to MSU and NOW they're going to decide "gee this doesn't work and coach in an idiot? I'm going to tank it." If you for even a second think that the players listen to you and take even remotely seriously- they don't.
2. I don't care if our coach tells Bryce Harper to SAC bunt with the bases loaded down four with two outs. If that's what the coach tells you to do, you do it. If you don't, you need to leave.
Not to mention the fact that if any of that really was an issue, it would have come to light by now. I guess all of the multiple posters on here all got together and just made up the skipping workouts issue and the leadership issues with the seniors.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
We lost that game by the wayQuote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
Nope. When you have a family member that goes to class with the players and they say that so and so is missing workouts and are lazy, that's where it's coming from. People talk.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
A bunt attempt is not the same as three straight sacrifices. STILL waiting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Smitty
Edit to say that I looked up that game that you are referencing. Interesting that you failed to mention that we blew a FIVE run lead and scored seven runs total and ended up losing in extra innings.
And Bianco would no longer be the coach there post 2011, 2012, and 2012 if their idiot fans had their way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bully13
30-27 Cohen after this shitshow of a season.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
That seems a lot of games. All my comparisons were tied directly to their tenure at OM and stateQuote:
Originally Posted by engie
You counting stents at other schools? What's their head to head records at State and Ole Miss? It doesn't matter if one beat the other more while at Northeast Louisiana Technical InstituteQuote:
Originally Posted by engie
This isn't correct. Last year and this year Ole Miss has had the better team.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
So overall resume only matters when it can make a negative point against Cohen? And you think this is fair? You shouldn't have asked a question you weren't going to like the answer to.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
2 of 5 is a majority now?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe
2011 -- OM was 30-25 (13-17)Quote:
Originally Posted by confucius say
2012 -- OM was 37-26 (14-16)... regional finish
Those are crazy fans for talking about firing Bianco.
This year Cohen is 24-27 (8-19). This will most likely be the 3rd time in 7 years that Cohen finishes with 10 sec wins or fewer. Bianco has never won less than 13 in sec play. Bianco has never had a losing overall record. This will most likely be Cohen's 3rd in 7 years. Do you see a difference?
Sorry but what Cohen did at Kentucky or LA directional doesn't mean a dang thing hereQuote:
Originally Posted by engie
No, the statement was the last five years we had the better team.Quote:
Originally Posted by engie
But what he did at Kentucky is "why people knew he was going to get it done here". But now that everyone is jumping off a cliff -- what he has done and his career trajectory doesn't matter? Lol at the movement of the goalposts.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
That's the same game that your love, the sac bunt, was tried in the 1st inning. We screw it up, swing with 2 strikes, get a hit, and put up 5. If the meddling blockhead gets his way we lose going away.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
3 of 5 = better team over the last 5 yearsQuote:
Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe
2 Supers vs 1 super = better team over last 5 years.
A deeper run in Omaha = better team over last 5 years.
A conference tourney title = better than no conference tourney titles.
It was not at all difficult to understand what Todd was saying. You had to try extremely hard not to.
What he did at UK helps give him next year to fix it along with 2013 season. I think he has earned another year but there definitely needs to be a Regional at the minimum. This season also had us losing to horrible teams and would probably be even worse had we went to Houston like we had planned originally.Quote:
Originally Posted by engie
Sorry, I just took what he wrote for what the sentence literally said. That would be just like if I said Bama has been better in football the last five years over Auburn. I didn't say over the last five years Bama is averaging better teams.Quote:
Originally Posted by engie
That would mean something if you actually knew the difference. We all know that you don't. Just like the fact that you don't understand that by "screwing up the bunt" It forced the pitcher to throw a fastball that got hit and helped lead to the big inning. But that's way over your head.Quote:
Originally Posted by Smitty
I should have probably worded it better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe
Engie makes some good points, but using career records vs each other to answer that question was nothing more than putting lipstick on a turd. Very misleading, and he's better than that.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
No big deal. I seem to land in the middle of the opinions. I think Cohen's track record gives us hope that he can right the ship but I will definitely be disappointed if there isn't some kind of changes. If we don't make a Regional, we better at least start a ton of freshmen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
As I sat and talked to several member of the family today about this situation my stance has changed. Cohen needs to figure this stuff out and he needs to figure it out quick. Look if the guy wants to change swings in guys, do it in the off season not mid season. It hurts the team and player.
Now for my rant on Butch. For the all these years we have heard how elite he has been. When is the last time we have had a pitcher contribute for three years? Holder? I'm sitting here during this discussion today and I'm thinking of only one, and it's Holder. You had Stratton his sophmore year on the bench as we are playing Florida State in that regional and we're afraid to pitch him. Lingo's freshman year he is tearing it up and gets hurt. He comes back and his confidence is messed up. We go to the CWS and Lingo doesn't pitch one time.
This brings me to the point of Pollerena and Laster. Every year they would start Pollerena out of the bullpen and then they realize hey we need this guy in the starting rotation. Same thing happened to Laster this year. How does that even happen? Two guys who have proven they are starters always starting in the bullpen each year after they proven. Ridiculous.
Now let me talk about the personnel. I'm sitting here looking at Trent Waddell wondering how in the hell did this guy get on a SEC team. You know why? He's a dual threat guy that Thompson begged to keep and to be honest he just isn't that good. And now he's trying to do that exact thing with Cole Gordon who should have been playing this year because the kid can flat out rope it, and I have seen that personally. Jesse McCord? Hit .488 with 18 HRs. That type of production should be tried in the field. But no, we're trying to make him a pitcher and he looks lost out there. Give the guys a chance to be productive here. We are missing on evaluations and that will not cut it missing on a lot of evaluations.
Back to Cohen. Cohen needs to learn to just let the players hit. Ball players HIT. When you mess with their swings they think instead of hitting. I could tell the next year after we went to the CWS these guys thought they were entitled to things and let me tell you something, not ONE SEC team fears these guys. They are a bunch of self entitled PG All-Stars.
Next year should be interesting.
C: Marrero/Collins/Lovelady. I wouldn't mind seeing Lovelady start behind the dish. I think Collins future is in the outfield. Marrero if he can handle the staff and hit could provide some competition
1B: Gordon/Lowe/Rooker/Hump. I think we have some guys here who can rope. We need to find away to get some quality ABs and production from these 4.
2B/SS: Gridley, Alexander, Stovall, Holland, and Delvin Zinn. From what I can tell Stovall can hit and be clutch for his team. Gridley needs to execute better and be more consistent. Holland is pretty good defensively, we need more production out of him at the plate. Alexander has been hyped a lot and I hope we haven't overhyped him like we did Holland and several others. I don't know much about Zinn.
3B: Reynolds/Riley/McCord I didn't include Spurill because I hope he isn't back next year. He isn't a SEC player. Reynolds with the way he has hit lately has earned some PT. If we get Riley it could get interesting. If we don't screw with his swing or approach and he can adjust to college ACEs then I would like to see him on the field. If McCord's career doesn't work out as a pitcher I want to see him at 3rd for a little bit. The boy can hit or at least he did in high school.
OF: Robson/Hump/Smith/Brown/Collins/Pickett/Rooker/Blaylock. You know Robson is going to play because Cohen loves his favorites and he is plus in the OF. Hump needs to play but needs to learn the ins and outs of the OF. Smith looked good yesterday. Another instance of a guy getting hurt and not being allowed to come back into the lineup(Lingo his freshman year). Cody Brown has been a dirt bagger his whole career here. I don't know what he did but he has earned his time. Collins has a strong enough arm to play out here but it will depend on his catching situation. I really like Rooker's swing. It'll be his 3rd year here we need production now. We all know about Pickett so I would like to get him to campus. I don't know much about Blaylock.
Ps: P Brown/Sexton/Hudson/Houston/Billingsly/McCord/Mintz/Tatum. I included these guys because they are proven. Preston Brown better be our midweek guy because I just don't think he is a Friday night starter. I like the potential of the other guys, but the light needs to come on and they need to nut up and become aggressive, dominant pitchers. I'm not going to hype up this pitching class until I see them in practice and play a few games. We have a tendency as Mississippi State fans to over hype freshman and players in general that just aren't ready to be hyped up.
Bottom line, Cohen/Thompson need to get their stuff figured out. They need to earn the respect of their players again and get back to the basics. Get rid of the egos, including theirs. This is Mississippi State baseball and I realize it isn't the 1980s again but it's time we are feared again and we also, as fans, can talk about our fan support but guys I go to a lot of games because I am student. And our grandstands don't fill up compared to the LSUs and Ole Miss. I get it our stadium is old, but filling it up only once or twice a year is pitiful. That's gonna look kinda bad in this brand new stadium. We need to be feared as a place to play again and make it intimidating. Our players need to realize how much pride is in Mississippi State. Stop being fancy and worrying about how you look and be a baseball player.
We will have the pieces to be good next year, we just need the coach that can maximize their potential... and it's not the current guy. Sorry, but we don't need to "clean house" of the talent we have. We need someone who can extract that talent without a ****ing batting practice matrix, and getting "graded on ten swings in practice" where a ball off the L screen is worth more than one off the foul pole.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkgSVuAHUzQ
I do t think I can stand another year of Collins catching. I love Collins' bat when healthy, but his defense is shaky at bestQuote:
Originally Posted by BankerDog
I think Cohen has the ability to turn it around, and you and I both KNOW he is getting next year to try...so hammering away on the "fire Cohen" drum the next 12 months is pointless. If he turns it around, he stays...if not, he goes. It's likely that simple.Quote:
Originally Posted by Smitty
We will have good pieces, and a coach at his dream job coaching with his ass on fire. If we can't win with that, it's time for him to go after 8 years anyway
This is more than just "make regional".. If we sneak in the back door next year, experience the same issues we've been experiencing, then he's GOT TO go.Quote:
Originally Posted by CadaverDawg
A good coach could host with next year's squad. Cohen won't. That's the problem. We don't have to set our program back a few years, or hit rock bottom to know when it's time. We have the pieces in place to compete NOW.
See: Steve Kerr replacing Mark Jackson.
Oh, I agree that a 3 seed and sneaking in is not a turn around...but I doubt Stricklin will agree. I hope it's boom or bust next year so there's no doubt.Quote:
Originally Posted by Smitty
How many people on this thread wanted Mullen fired in November 2013? "Smitty" sure did...
I never wanted Mullen fired, but Mullen only missed postseason his first year and barely. Cohen is about to miss postseason play for his 3rd time out of 7 in a sport we should have a much easier time in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quaoarsking
I can see how that hitting drill could be very effective. I'd place more emphasis on who could hit the low liner back to the pitcher rather that how quickly they get down to 1st base.
I'd rather see old school stuff from the mound simply from a aspect of timing. But I like to see repetitive good contact with the baseball more than anything. I'm not liking many of those swings. Lots of emphasis on finishing high, which is a good thing,..everyone should swing through the ball, just like golf. But it seems like perfection over production when carried to the extreme.
One year doesn't make a coach a bad one. They may be awful next year, but they may be top 15. The potential, I believe, is absolutely there.