I really don't know how that would work. Bran is really strong and he only basically does it to Hodor who is simply minded. I would think it would be harder to take over someone's body who fought it.Quote:
Originally Posted by tcdog70
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I really don't know how that would work. Bran is really strong and he only basically does it to Hodor who is simply minded. I would think it would be harder to take over someone's body who fought it.Quote:
Originally Posted by tcdog70
Or 9 or 10. He needs an editor in the worst ****ing way. His endless manuscript shit wouldn't happen on my watch. I'd kick his ass to get it done and get the books out at a reasonable pace.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe
That said, unless I dreamed it, seems like I remember reading an article within the last few weeks that said as of now they plan to have TWoW out before Season 6 starts next season. No specific release date was mentioned, but it certainly sounded like it would happen, barring any major setbacks. Of course, with GRRM, that's entirely possible.
I read somewhere that he was trying to hit January before the show.
I read that somewhere to but I'm not holding my breath. I have been reading this series forever and he is the worst to promise a general release time and then fail to meet his deadline. From what I understand the last book was basically forced out by the publisher. He has WAY to many side projects and spends most of his time at scifi-fantasy conferences. I can imagine the TV show has just pushed him further back. I fully expect the TV show to end LOnG before the last book is out...if it EVER actually comes out...dude isn't exactly in good health...Quote:
Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe
Hopefully with the show pushing him, he will actually get the book out. As much as everyone wants him to finish it, he has a lot of different things coming out. I wonder if he is dragging this shit out just to stay in the spotlight. He loves being famous.
So apparently Jon Snow is in Belfast with the rest of the cast that film there. Doesn't prove he isn't dead or comes back to life but he is at least filming some scenes which could be flash back. I personally think Red Priestess brings him back to life.
She did flee Stannis' camp to get back to the Wall...Quote:
Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=s8L51JvwaVo
There goes my theory that Arthur Dayne is still alive
Because he's not!!! Rhaegar lives!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Cabo32
Ashara is the questionmark IMOQuote:
Originally Posted by Cabo32
"He would have killed me, if not for howland reed"...didn't think they would have howland reed stab Dayne in the back.Quote:
Originally Posted by BulldogBear
Is it possible this is red herring?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cabo32
ttt... 2 weeks from today...
Has all of the ingredients to be the best season yet.
Bastard Bowl
Back to River Run
Stark reunion(s)
Quiet Isle
Kings Landing
Kingsmoot
Oldtown
The trailers have me pumped. Tower of joy scene is gonna be badass
See....here's the thing. I'm not pumped. That may come as a surprise to y'all, but instead I'm pissed. Parts of me want to scream that letting the show get ahead of GRRM is 50 shades or irresponsible. I want to read the book first. I don't want to learn stuff ahead of time. Now, that is simply a preference of course and of course everyone hasn't read the books and will therefore see the whole situation differently. I know WMD, engie, Dawgology, Tbone, Shelton, Cabo, Ruckus, BoomBoom, and others I'm not thinking of at the moment have read the series. I think tcdog and mcain31 have as well. How do y'all feel about the show going forward?
One reason I haven't expounded on my theories any more or on any more discussion from this great thread:
http://www.elitedawgs.com/showthread...f-Thrones-Show
....is that I've just lost some of the fire for it because of this crap. I feel like the show will be very different from the books going forward so I'm not sure what we can take from it. And the reason I'm pissed is that I think that's what GRRM has in mind!!!!! One reason we have all the red herring and loose ends in the books is because he so very much wants to surprise everyone with the ending. But when you drag it out for what is now DECADES, people figure stuff out. He has admitted to changing the ending many times because of this. He says he's just sticking with it as it is now, but I believe that "Skipper" is letting the show go forward so he can "surprise" everyone with the ending of the book. What I mean is as if you were to watch "the movie" about the Civil War and Union wins, but you go read "the book" about the Civil War and confederacy wins. I think he's gonna totally deviate from the show so he can have his blinking "Ahah" moment. And I just think that's boiling over into general douchebaggery. When you drag it out for twenty blinkin' years, of course some folks are going to figure it out GRRM!
In this case I consider the book to be canon. It seems that whatever is the original media is the canon and anything else is just artistic license. Much like in Star Wars, the ultimate canon is the movies. I'm really half tempted to watch the show and not buy/read his 17ing books. If he wants the show to get ahead of him, then by Mullen, the show shall be declared canon and we don't need your blasted late-a$$ books.
I can't decide which to do. Watch the show and just to hell with GRRM or wait around to read the books first in which case he'll probably die before he can publish them.
Totally feel where you're coming from, Bear. It sucks that his ass can't get the books out at a reasonable pace. If he has an editor, his editor sucks and needs to be fired. If he doesn't, he needs one yesterday. That said, last season put us ahead of the books on a couple of story lines.Quote:
Originally Posted by BulldogBear
I think we'll get to the same general ending, but I think "how" we get there could wind up being very different. We do know that GRRM has verbally told the producers the ending so they can finish the show if something ever happened to him. I think we'll get a couple of characters who are important in the books that aren't important to the show and vice versa. I think we all agree about Jon's heritage and he & Dany being the ultimate heroes of the story. And it's not really a spoiler if (when) Jon lives this season, because pretty much everyone has guessed he lives in the books, too. Hell, how they accomplish that is likely to be very different as well. I think we all expect Melisandre to play a part in the show, but she's nowhere near Castle Black in the books. She's out with Stannis fighting the Boltons.
I'll still read the books and enjoy them for this reason: GRRM can do things in the book that just aren't really practical for TV. Look at the Ser Baristan Selmy/Arstan Whitebeard arc. That was some epic storytelling in the books, but it was almost entirely cut from the show because everyone is going to recognize that Whitebeard is really Ser Baristan. Like you, I think I'll consider the books canon and GoT an adaptation. It just sucks that Fat Bastard isn't being made to stay ahead of the TV show. But as you point out, when you take a 10 year break between books and spend 20 years on the series as a whole....of course people are going to figure shit out and you're going to be behind any TV/movie deals you've made.
GRRM has already said he thought of a twist for the books that can't be done in the show because the person is dead in the show but not in the books. Maybe Rob's wife, that is the only person I can think of off the top of my head. I also like to read the books before watching the show but I will definitely watch the shows as they come out. At this point it has been so long since I read the books that I can't keep it straight in my head. I need to reread them but the books are so damn long it takes forever to finish it as GRRM talks about what they are eating for 3 pages.Quote:
Originally Posted by BulldogBear
They aren't the same person.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe
Barristan
Stannis
Shireen
Selyse
Mance
Greatjon(apparently)
Pyp and Grenn
Myranda(she's a Sansa competitor in the Vale in the books)
etc...
This is a huge divergence from the books. They aren't even the same thing anymore. This 10 hours is going to put them "within 10-13 hours" of a completed story. I felt like last season was a lot of filler -- but this year is going to get us to the end game prettymuch. It's going to close prettymuch all of the open storylines IMO -- many of which have been dangling prettymuch since the beginning.
Well Sansa joining up with Brienne. I wonder where they go. Dorne is getting interesting but I honestly don't care about much else than the Wall. The red woman at the end, I can't decide if the necklace just makes her look young or if it makes her young. She looked very dejected when she saw Jon dead. Not sure if she was laying down to die at the end.
All I've got to say is, "I wish I hadn't seen Melissandre's true form." I can't unsee that
You can add Doran, Myrcella, Hotah, Tystane, Lord of Bones, maybe Jogen for people dead on TV but not in books. Then there's just people that are flat out not in the show who could have big twist in Trystane, Jon Con, fAegon, Damphair, Victarion (biggest disappointment), Arianne. Then the people alive in the show but dead in books Pycelle and Kevan come to mind. Clearly there's going to be a huge deviation from the books. At this point I'm hoping that the end game is the only thing that is the same so when I'm reading in will be completely new to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by engie
Y'all have probably gathered that I've chosen not to watch season 6, but I'll dialogue with y'all a couple of weeks because I doubt there'll be any major spoilers in the first 2-3 episodes that I haven't more or less guessed anyway, such as.....
^^^THIS. It doesn't bother me to read that because there are so many things in the books (and some in show as well) that point to the Rubies being associated with illusion. I don't consider what I already know to be a spoiler. Remember rubies are associated with illusion. Which is why the one that gets my vote is of course...Quote:
Originally Posted by mcain31
....Mance Rayder, aka Rhaegar Targaryen. "Mance" is still very much alive in the books, although the Boltons claim to have him and spearwives as prisoners in a letter (Whether or not it is to be believed is another thing). In this theory, the man killed at the Ruby Ford was Arthur Dayne posing as Rhaegar, something they were known to have done before. Plus all the Rubies. WHERE IS RHAEGAR'S BODY? IF THERE WAS A FUNERAL PYRE OR SOMETHING INSTEAD, WHY IS NO FUNERAL EVER MENTIONED? Because there was no body. When the rubies were scattered and somebody eventually took off the armor...ooops....that's not Rhaegar. But it was kept quiet. At the Tower of Joy it was mentioned when THEY found him (Ned). Who is they? Howland Reed, the only person left alive, is not a "they." Someone else was there. Rhaegar? It is the birth of his son, whom he believes is the Prince that was Promised and/or Azor Ahai. Perhaps Dayne was not killed after all, although Ned is saddened by his death. But when did he die? In this theory, it could be Dayne knew he had to die. He was in on Rhaegar's plan and there was no way he could "survive" the war. Some even believe that Mance is not who he seems and is in fact Dayne instead of Rhaegar. Either way, I do not believe Mance is just Mance. He is Rhaegar or Arthur Dayne. I'm fixing to have to go work. Maybe later this week I can gather all the clues as to Mance's true identity and put them in a single coherent post.Quote:
Originally Posted by engie
My second nomination would be Jojen Reed (aka Howland Reed). This was discussed some in a thread way back: http://www.elitedawgs.com/showthread...-Thrones/page3
But I'm going to cut and paste the main quote here (from a post I made):
!!!!!SPOILER ALERT - MAY CONTAIN INFO FROM BOOKS NOT SHOWN IN TV SERIES YET OR AT ALL - SPOILER ALERT!!!!!
Okay Bulldragons, put on your tinfoil hats. This is why I theorize that Howland Reed is posing as his "son."
I could probably do this better when I re-read the series to get ready for release of TWOW but here goes. Jojen is odd. It is likewise odd that we haven't seen Howland Reed at all. The country is in turmoil. As close a friend as HR was to Ned, something isn't quite what it seems. I think that Jojen is Howland Reed, not Howland Reed's son. Howland Reed knew that Bran needs to get to the three-eyed crow. He is the one who had the dream of the fall of Winterfell in the book, not Bran. How is Jojen, a 12-13 year old boy teaching Bran how to warg? Jojen himself never alludes to having any warging or actual greenseeing abilities. He just says he has greendreams. The Crannogmen are mysteroius, not a whole lot is known about them. They are known to be small and who knows how they age or how much it shows. They may even be intermingled with Children of the Forest. The area they live in was flooded by the COF in an attempt to cut off the North from the rest of Westeros during their war with the first men. They may not be wargs themselves (The COF aren't) but have a load of ancient knowledge. Meera doesn't seem to have them but then she may not be a crannogman. There is another theory that suggest R+L = J&M!!!! Twins, seperated at birth ala Luke and Leia. Sometimes you can take clues from the tv series to learn things in the books. It's a different medium so you have to present info in different ways. The producers DO know the whole story as told them by GRRM in case of his premature death after all. Meera and Jon look similar in the show. But that's neither here nor there for this theory.
Frequently, Jojen is said to seem older and wiser than a 12-13 year old. He is awfully mature and solemn in general. Every Bran chapter in which Jojen is present, we see this, especially in ACOK and ASOS, although in ADWD he's perhaps more sullen, weary, and sick. Bran notices twice that Old Nan called Jojen "Little Grandfather." This is in ACOK, Bran-4 and in ASOS, Bran-1. Bran refers to JR as "Little Grandfather" in his own thoughts as well. In ASOS, Brand -1, Bran also states that Jojen could scare almost anyone, saying how Meera wasn't scared of anyone, except Jojen. This seems a little off. A 12-13 year old (not named Joffrey Barathister) that could scare anybody? Jojen just doesn't seem like a 12-13 year old boy, not even a mature one. In ACOK, Bran-5, Theon takes Winterfell. Jojen is not afraid as a young boy should be when the "Vikings" come to raid and pillage. Instead his eyes are full of sorrow. He is not afraid, despite their situation. Even knowing this was coming as he did, I would still think a boy would feel somewhat frightened. Jojen exhibits a strange absence of anxiety/fear when meeting the direwolves for the first time. Bran observes this while seeing through Summer's eyes in ACOK, Bran-3. Even as the direwolves are growling and threatening, JR isn't afraid. Meera, the older sibling, is. Jojen once calls Bran a summer child, even though he's only 3-4 years older himself.
Let us look at Meera's constant obedience of Jojen. Meera is the older sibling, about four years IIRC, and yet Jojen's word is law to her. In ASOS, Bran-3, Bran thinks, "Jojen had his way; he always did," after arguing with Meera about having a fire at Queenscrown. In ADWD, Bran-1, Meera obeys Jojen again when she wants to go back with Coldhands to help against the men that the ravens have warned him of. He tells her no in no uncertain terms, and so she doesn't go. Jojen is something more than just Meera's younger brother. Why would she always do what Jojen tells her, unless maybe he's her father?
In ASOS, Bran-2, Meera tells Bran of the knight of the Laughing Tree at the Great Tournament at Harrenhal, where Prince Rhaegar crowns Lyanna as the Queen of Love and Beauty. Ned was there, Howland Reed was there, and he may have been said knight if it wasn't Lyanna in disguise. That whole situation begins the road to the TOJ. Before, during, and after the telling, Jojen is genuinely surprised that Bran never heard this tale from Ned himself. He asks 3 times to clarify that Ned never told the story. Why would he feel this was such an important story for Bran to have been told before? The events in the tale occurred before Jojen would have supposedly born but it seems very important to him personally. Jojen even knows the name AND nickname of a mountain man that rode in the war with his father. Meera, Bran, and Jojen are speaking of the Houses of the Mountains. Bran mentions the Wulls in response to a question asked by Meera about a Wull riding with her father. Jojen says, "Theo Wull," and then, "Buckets, they called him." Jojen knows such specifics about a man that rode with their father during a war that occurred years before he was born? This is a small matter but Meera specifically asks about a man who rode with their father during the war. He may have done great deeds of course but that wasn't her question. Nor was it of a man who was close friends with their father, but someone who only rode with him. It just seems like an oddly specific thing for a son to know.
Jojen should be healthy, young and fit, yet the long grueling journey has the hardest physical toll on him of those in the party. This seems more consistant with a middle aged man. Who knows how much they age in appearance. He could also be using a glamour like the ones Melisandre uses. This could make him appear young. Remember they are reclusive and mysterious. Meera "carries the weapons" but that doesn't mean JR wouldn't use them. Perhaps he does not want to give away his identity by being way too skilled than an awkward preteen boy ought to be. HR/JR saw the fall of Winterfell in a greendream. His known presence would draw attention. Nobody at Winterfell at the time would likely have seen him before. And who the 17 sends their kids to do a man's job. Get them north of the wall? Really? What the heck kind of Dad is that or at least what's he doing that's so all-fired important as to have another gravely important task (to all of their survival against the real enemy) delegated to a couple of kids?
The mystery of Howland Reed's whereabouts has been right under our nose the whole time.
"He who conceals himself is revealed."
Last edited by BulldogBear; 04-21-2014 at 04:36 PM. Reason: Added bold to the spoiler alert
I think you're making too much out of it. Mance is Mance and Jogen is Johen.
I think he has been trying to get the books different than the show. I read he thought of a twist with someone that died in the show so I really think he just wants to make the books different. It may have to do with him thinking if the books are different then maybe people will buy them instead of just getting the cliff notes of the story from the show. There is no way the show covers all the details he has going in the books. It is to the point that I can't even remember all the loose ends.Quote:
Originally Posted by BulldogBear
I definitely think Mance is someone of importance. He would have to do something to look different if he was Rhaegar. I think he is Dayne. There is no way Ned Stark would allow someone he was fighting to be stabbed in the back. This is a guy that is so honorable he actually tells the queen what he knows so she can get away. He never thought someone would betray his dumb ass because that isn't the honorable thing to do. He even is willing to die for it before Sansa and others talk him out of it then incest bastard has him killed anyway. I think Rhaegar told Dayne what was coming and he needed to gather the wildlings. After the Kingsguard is basically defeated at the Tower of Joy, I think Dayne tells Ned what is coming and Ned allows him to go over the wall. Ned then takes Jon to protect him from Robert's wraith.Quote:
Originally Posted by BulldogBear
I guess we shall see when the Tower of Joy scene is finally shown this year.
If that is true, then the show really screwed that plot by killing Mance. Again, I think Mance is Mance. If he is Dayne in the books, then I'll be really pissed that they show didn't let it play out.
Come to the Dark Side. I've maintained all along we're getting to the same end game but the "how" we get there is going to be different. Nothing yet suggests otherwise, except for the possibility that Jon Snow is permanently dead.Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Ruckus
i think that last episode hinted that someone (Davos?) will pretend to be John Snow going forward. that he really is dead and isn't coming back. if that is true, then i think the entire Internet will flip it's shit.Quote:
Originally Posted by War Machine Dawg
but i do think the next episode will open with Bran and his new weirwood powers, leading into encountering the spirit of John Snow and facilitating his full resurrection.
i'll also be keeping an eye on GRRM's official site. he usually like to leak his chapter prior to the show spoiling something, see "Mercy" prior to last season.
Since the show runners have said that Melissandre is several centuries old, could she actually be Rhaenys Targaryen?
possibly, since a body was never found, but book-wise that doesn't fit with her memories from her POV. i think she was held prisoner as a hostage, and that fact was buried so deep that even the current Martells have no idea it happened. probably one of those tidbits we'll never get confirmation on.Quote:
Originally Posted by mcain31
Shiera Seastar is more likely, but that also doesn't jibe with her memories. and you'd think her and BR would recognize each other. maybe their bastard daughter?
What's going to happen tomorrow? Is Mel going to revive John? What's Bran going to see? Will it be the ToJ? Sansa going to make it to the Wall? Will Roose or Ramsey pursue? Will fat Walda give birth and drive Ramsey over the edge? Cersei has got to do something crazy over Myrcella.
*drops mic*
welp
Right there among the top 3-4 episodes of the show ever. Maybe the best. The story is hauling ass now, but it felt pretty organic and unforced to me. Didn't really like what they reduced Roose to compared to the books. Was hoping it would be a similar turn where he's actually 2-3 steps ahead of Ramsey the whole time...
Next week should be bad ass. This week was a lot better than last week. Finally it looks like the Tower of Joy will let us know what went down.
On the Mance/Dayne thing -- Mance was not just a rise to power beyond the wall type of thing. He was a night's watchman for most of his life. Thorne(who is at the wall for fighting on the side of the Targs) would definitely have known/recognized Arthur Dayne or Rhaegar Targaryen. If Mance was either -- he wouldn't have hated them so much or fought them so harshly -- he would have still been loyal to them most likely.
I didn't think about that. So if they are actually going to try and finish next year does Dany get to Westeros at the end of this year or beginning of next?Quote:
Originally Posted by engie
One thing I thought of was it was interesting that the High Sparrow said "we all deserve to die" to Jamie. Almost similar to the Faceless men that "All men must die". Read a theory that it is basically 2 gods fighting. The red priestess does say the god of light fights against the god of the dark. So maybe the white walkers, faceless men, and the High Sparrow are all basically fighting for the night god to bring about death to all.
Probably not likely but interesting none the less.
From what I read it will be broke into two seasons, kind of like how the sopranos did their final season
yep -- 13-15 more episodes in 2 years.
They are claiming that's all the can fit into a year given the epicness of the endgame. Said this year was an almost impossible grind. Ran 4 shooting units at the same time for awhile.
There will be some hella battles at the end. I wonder how many battles will happen before it is humans vs white walkers? Jon leading an army against Ramsay and you know the Lannisters will go against Dorne. We might even see the Faith Militant against the Lannisters. It will be interesting to see how different it will be compared to the books. GRRM has already said the book was pushed back because he thought of a twist he wanted in the books but the person is dead on the show. I think now he is just trying to make the books different. I think if he was still ahead of the show that the book would have already came out.Quote:
Originally Posted by engie