He didn't recruit Beasley. A guy by the name of Delonte Hill did. Beasley committed to Charlotte where Hill coached. Hill brought him to K State. Keep trying.Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketingBully01
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He didn't recruit Beasley. A guy by the name of Delonte Hill did. Beasley committed to Charlotte where Hill coached. Hill brought him to K State. Keep trying.Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketingBully01
Everything he's done has been smart with money. He's hired smartly in every single sport and position that I'm aware of at this point. We will see for sure on men's basketball next year...Quote:
Originally Posted by DanDority
Oh geez. Yeah, the #1 player in the country went to Kansas State because of no-name assistant Frank Martin.Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketingBully01
Isn't that also the argument? That no-name assistant coaches can't do anything? They never turn into anything more than that.
You implied that the money was there for Stricklin to hire whoever he wanted and he just botched it. I simply showed how ridiculous that position was.Quote:
Originally Posted by TrueMaroon
- We KNOW the SEC is charging $1.30 per subscriber inside the TV footprint at launch.Quote:
Originally Posted by TrueMaroon
- We KNOW there are over 30 million subscribers inside the TV footprint.
- We KNOW the SEC is charging $0.25 per subscriber outside the TV footprint at launch.
- We know there is another 80+ million subscribers outside the TV footprint.
- We KNOW DISH, AT&T, and a rural network provider have signed on. Doing the math on that, we already KNOW it's worth over $5mil/school RIGHT NOW 5 months before launch -- with only 2 of the major providers.
At expected saturation -- which they've repeatedly stated is expected to be similar to ESPNU -- it's worth about $30million per school at current prices. I'm projecting that it's at very damn near full saturation in 2015 -- and probably will be before 2014 is over. Luckily, I went conservative on my initial numbers -- lest your head explode on the front end...
I'm missing this SEC bylaw that says we can't pay less than $1M. You pay someone what they are worth he ain't worth $1M.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
"We cant go lower than that" where is that written? Besides on this message board by Brick supporters.
Now you are talking about players that were there one freaking year and proving my point. He had to rebuild after losing those players. Now you are arguing just to argue both you and Smoot. I am wrong that he recruited Beasley but those two were there one year! Just give it a rest!
Frank Martin (28-38 / 9-27) has made
180k per non conference win
422k per SEC win
with better talent when he got there
Rick Ray (24-41 / 7-29)
83k per non conference win
285k per SEC win
Looks to me like USCe fan base should be much more pissed about the last 2 years than our fan base.
Lets compare after year 3 when "hopefully" RR has a full roster to work with.
And don't give me the USCe has never been good in basketball. Because the last 10 years they have been as good or some could say better than we have.. Couple of NIT championships ( I believe back to back) , a East Division championship , and a trip to the NCAA
By your definition of Ray -- it's Martin's OWN fault that those players left after one year.Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketingBully01
You are talking in circles -- and incapable of clearly defining a logical position without hypocritically applying parameters as you see fit. As is the case with the majority of the Ray haters. The extent to which Smoot is dominating this is hilarious really. You would have been way better off to throw out a "F Rick Ray" and left it at that instead of again pretending that you could logically debate it.
Give it a rest? You're the one who stated the opinions that Martin inherited more talent at SC than Ray did at State and that Martin rebuilt Kansas State. We disagree with those opinions and are backing up our argument against them. By 'give it a rest,' do you mean, 'stop hammering me with facts that go against my opinion?'Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketingBully01
I think Martin did a very good job at KSU; I don't think he 'rebuilt' them, but he did keep the train rolling forward that Huggins started and had ultimately more success than Huggins did in his one year.
I don't think he's done anything special at SC. I think he inherited the better roster initially than Ray did, and I don't see how Martin has done a better job than Ray. The only reason anyone is trying to argue Martin had a worse roster last year is because Ray beat him twice and Martin publicly talked about what a great job Ray did; so the only way to try to de-legitimize that is to claim Ray should have beaten them last year, which is crazy.
Um, Yes Sir- that is exactly what he is sayingQuote:
Originally Posted by smootness
Do y'all just have short term memory loss and sweep under the rug that we lost 14 of our last 15 games? I don't care how bad you are you can't do that and expect fan support no matter how bad the situation.
Cohen went 6-24 in his 2nd season as State coach
What will get the people on Ray's side? Improvement in Season 3. Rebuilding is over- now it's time for Brick Ray to get better
Cohen had a couple of 40 win seasons at another SEC school that fans could look at for encouragement thru the tough early seasons.
I'm hopeful Ray has a solid year 3, and I think he can.
The same fans lost their minds in the exact same way with Cohen. That's the point... You may see a hypothetical where that buys patience -- but at MSU, for many of the most vocal fans, it did not...Quote:
Originally Posted by quickstrike2
SEC is also the strongest baseball conference but only like the 7th strongest basketball conference. The Cohen/Ray comparisons have to stop.
but to alot of people that loved Polk and kept hearing from that faction that Cohen wasnt the right person for the job- they didnt give a shit about what he had done at Kentucky. They were yelling loudly that Cohen cussed too much, the players hated him, and he would never win at State.Quote:
Originally Posted by quickstrike2
And to others, the fact that he could somehow go 6-24 at Miss State with all the success we had had and all the history- meant he couldnt handle the job.
Too much revisionist history on all his Kentucky success- a helluva lot of people didnt give a shit about that in May of 2010
No- they are extremely valid and show the idiocy of fans that are too shortsighted. Does it mean Ray will also be successful? No. Does it mean he wont? Also no- Cohen showed it takes time to rebuild. Just like Frank Martin has and case after case.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawg61
I'd rather have our 4 NCAA appearances and 3 NIT appearances in that time frame. This is just stupid. And I will address the other parts in the next post on why I think Ray had more talent to work with then Frank Martin.Quote:
Originally Posted by mic
I always thought Cohen was the right hire in baseball. If we had made a Cohen like hire in basketball, you wouldn't hear a peep from me. If Martin were here, I'd give him the benefit of the doubt. Ray has done nothing to even draw a comparison like this. Nothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
but you're one personQuote:
Originally Posted by MarketingBully01
Engie has linked thread after thread of people that wanted Cohen fired. There were alot of fans that couldnt believe State could go 6-24 in SEC baseball. Too much hindsight now
I can't remember how many times someone on sixpack would ask me about Cohen and whether he was "the right man for the job" and I would point out:Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
A. We had few SEC caliber players. I personally believe that if they had bought in we probably would have had a little bit more success- like 30-26 type team success. But that's water under the bridge now.
B. Cohen had success at Kentucky and also people forget he also had success at Northwestern State. People also tend to forget that his first two years at Kentucky were also less than stellar before he began to succeed big time his final three years. And when he was at Florida as the hitting coach, he had a large part in recruiting a team there that ended up in the NC finals under McMahon.
But you are correct a lot of people didn't buy it and were probably looking at Brian O'Conner and hoping. Others were probably hoping that Raffo would get his chance - and after all the baseball coach that most MSU fans knew was Polk, so his philosophy was what they knew and believed in.
Well I agree with that, alot of fans were losing their shit. I'm just giving my thoughts. When things looked bad, in my mind what gave me confidence was his previous track record.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
Well, there's the crux of the problem. You would give a name the benefit of the doubt- but not a no-name. See, that's ignorant. Tony Barbee won at UTEP- but couldnt at Auburn. Georgia's coach was considered one of the hottest names in the country but has struggled there.Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketingBully01
All we are saying is let's see what he does next year with a full roster before writing him off
He won't have a full roster albeit only by 1 spot AS OF RIGHT NOW. But what if we have a few transfers/suspensions/kicked off/quits/non-qualifiers like his first two seasons brought us? What if we start game 1 of year three with 8-9 players AGAIN? Will that show you then?Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
This is my last post on this subject because I think this is absolutely ridiculous it has gotten this far with you Smoot. But here it goes.Quote:
Originally Posted by smootness
2011-2012 Final Record for USC 10-21 (2-14) SEC/ Fairly shitty good enough for last in the league and why Horn was canned.
Your great talent you boasted for USC, how many ppg they averaged for Martin, and where they transferred to because if they were so good wouldn't they have found a great spot???
Here we go:
Damien Leonard 4.0 ppg Future School - Fordham - aka Sucks
RJ Slawson 4.2 ppg Future School - Jacksonville - aka Sucks
Eric Smith 5.7 ppg Future School Coastal Carolina - ??
Brian Richardson 7.5 ppg Future School High Point University - aka Sucks
All combined guys transferring out and going to great wonderful bad ass schools average combined - 21.4 points
Guys you mentioned that stayed with the program
Bruce Ellington 9.9 ppg - only decent one and is only one of the shit group to average over two of our other players
Lakeem Jackson 7.5 ppg - basically a glorified Wendell Lewis
Our big three
Gavin Ware 8.4 ppg
Fred Thomas 9.7 ppg
Craig Sword 10.5 ppg
We had a solid young nucleus to build off of. Martin had worse to maybe close to as talented as us but definitely not more talent. I would rather have three solid to good players then one player and a bunch of scrubs. I guess we will just have to agree to disagree but the reasons above are why I think Ray had more talent then Martin to deal with when they got there. This is my last post on it.
It's not ignorant. When you need to rebuild a program, you don't hire an unknown who has never been a head coach. You just don't. Stricklin screwed this shit up and you guys are defending him on it. That is just recipe for disaster. Ray is not Crean, Ray is not Cohen, Ray is not even Drew at Baylor. His coaching prospects were between us and Winthrop. Let that sink in.
I blame Winthrop
You are talking about Georgia and Auburn. Those are two schools who have shit basketball programs. UGA hasn't been relevant since Tubby Smith and Jim Harrick. Shit and both of those coaches won national championships. Auburn has only had two successful coaches in its history Sonny Smith and Cliff Ellis. That is it. Those are bad examples. Shit, it would take a Bruce Pearl coach to win at Auburn. No one else will win there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
What if he doesnt?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawg61
He is done with Stands players except Roq- it's all on him now. Lewis and Steele screwed him AFTER the Fall had started. He's already got 2 of his signees in school and practicing with the team. He's had two years- it's all on him now. Let's see what happens.
Let...It...Play...Out
Georgia has just as many NCAA appearances as we do the last 9 years- and they are viewed in much more high esteem as a job than State.Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketingBully01
Auburn has actually had more NCAA Tourney success than us since 2000- and as Pearl just showed- they are viewed that way as well.
Our program is not as good as many of you seem to think it is. We have 2 NCAA Tourneys the last 9 years. TWO in NINE years.
13 by game 1. For myself I'll grant him year 3 if he accomplishes that. Been saying that. I know you and others think that's stupid but it paints a bigger picture than you're seeing if he doesn't imo. As of right now he's in line to suit up 12 and will have saved a scholarship for the third consecutive season. That alone is enough to let him go imo. He keeps pushing back the importance to win now till next season every time he does that. Why else does he keep saving it? Because he can't land someone good enough to warrant that spot? Because he likes the option for next season? Last place and last place because we have NO BENCH washes ANY excuse he's got to keep saving that spot till the next year till the next year till the next year. If your soldiers keep dying cause they run out of bullets ya better damn make sure they got more bullets the next time. jsQuote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
Yep, and we can blame loafers. He single handedly blew up our program. He had a chance to improve it but instead went this way. He had no plan in place and took our program into the toilet with his no plan. Stansbury had to go I agree but loafers needed to have someone there immediately to pick up where Stans left off. Regardless of Loafers blowing up our program, UGA and Auburn have shitty basketball programs. Pearl's first year IMO will be his first losing season as a head coach but I do think he will have Auburn in the NCAA tourney before we go again.
I'm not happy about the hiring- we agree. Just willing to give Ray his chance- rebuilding aint easy. Especially in this age of SEC basketball where there are alot of shitty basketball players disguised as 4-star talented athletesQuote:
Originally Posted by MarketingBully01
This is your last post on it because your points are ridiculous and you know it, and you're tired of defending them.Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketingBully01
Why in the world are we now using their PPG in their freshman year of college? What in the heck does that prove? Of course if you are the primary options for your team, you will score points, no matter how talented you are.
If we're now using that as the barometer (once again shifting the argument), then LaShay Page and Brenton Williams had more talent than anyone on our roster last year. How do I know this? Because they averaged more points than anyone on our team did, and that is now the proof of a player's talent. South Carolina actually averaged 5 more points as a team last year than we did...so they were clearly much more talented.
Please don't let this be your last post. I can't wait to see where the goalposts are next.
Exactly. You can't blame Rick Ray for wanting the job and getting hired. That's not his fault . Support him through next season . I think if he goes 7-11 or better in year 3 or signs Newman he will be guaranteed a 4th year . If the wheels fall off again like they have the past two seasons ( long painful losing streaks) than yes it will be time to hammer Stricklin for completely going out on his own and botching this hire. If Ray shows signs of turning this thing around then kudos to Rick and Mr Stricklin. We don't need to make this a who was right on a message board competition. We will know in the next 10 months if this thing is going to work out . Let this thing play out and support the program until it plays outQuote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
You mean like dan Mullen? Never a head coach. We were rebuilding I'd say...Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketingBully01
Who can't go 7-11 with a roster half full of 3 year starters? Y'all just gonna **** around and end up keeping Ray for 5 years. Just. Like. Croom. Would you of preferred to get a 3 year head start on where we are today in football? We are sitting pretty right now in football. But what if today was actually three years ago. What if Croom had been let go after two years not five and we'd have Mullen for an extra three years? Where would we be today? Serious preseason favorites to win the SEC West? Maybe. This is what I'm saying for basketball. If we are looking at a new coach or our Mullen for basketball after year 5 then we shouldn't wait. We can give that coach a 3 year head start on building his program today. Won't happen though cause we have the cheapest AD in the SEC and too many fans that think Ray hasn't been given a fair shot. You can pay me $2+ mill for an unfair shot all day every day.Quote:
Originally Posted by HailState39110
You just perplex me. I was using their points per game in the 2012-2013 year which guess what? None of those guys were freshmen. Most of them were juniors. Once again, you fabricate so people will think you are right and I am wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by smootness
Martin recruited Page to come there (Page came from Southern Miss but only played 9 games that year????) so using Page was a bad example. Trust me, I am right on this and you are wrong. Your blatant lack of facts here prove me right.
Football and basketball are completely different animals.Quote:
Originally Posted by Homedawg