Now wait a minute, if it works out the same way as it did in baseball, that means we'll keep him another year and suck once again, but then we'll hire Saban or maybe Kiffin away from ole Miss. I'm down!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainObvious
Now wait a minute, if it works out the same way as it did in baseball, that means we'll keep him another year and suck once again, but then we'll hire Saban or maybe Kiffin away from ole Miss. I'm down!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainObvious
Funny how that works. I'm as pissed right now as I've ever been as a State fan, but you're not wrong. Shapen makes one of those easy TD throws and it's a 10-17 point win on the road. We would all be talking about how we are 5-2 with a lot of hope left. Ole Miss is 6-1. We would be 1 game different from them after playing a much harder schedule.Quote:
Originally Posted by BankerDog
It would be stupid to fire Lebby. Any idiot can see we are much improved. But Lebby does make some stupid moves. Not just kicking the FG, Five yards wasn’t going to make a difference.. Leaving Fluff in , Not at least letting KT have a chance , not just running the ball after the fake punt, to just name a few.It is clear Shapen ain’t it. Time Togo with KT. Damn today’s QBs have helmets that allow a coach to talk to them. Who scored our first TD? KT, Shapen wouldn’t have scored. FREE KAMARIO.
Good post, CD. We are very close to being 6-1 and the turnaround from last year is huge.
It?s frustrating as hell. I get it. I am glad most of you don?t make AD decisions.
I just don't think KT would ever have us in position to win that game. You pointed out he scored our first TD. How did we get down there? KT can't even recognize to hand the ball off instead of keeping it.Quote:
Originally Posted by tcdog70
I have been so excited about KT, but now I'm worried he may take a lot longer to develop.
We got a huge boost in money to baseball this Spring to do the things we did. When that happens in football we will get better there also.Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainObvious
KT is Van Buren last year with better legsQuote:
Originally Posted by DownwardDawg
I think of it this way... Major corporations are not going to give someone that is leading the company years to stop making bad decisions. You get a few to learn from followed by some tough discussion and if you keep making them they replace your ass. I am not sure why some of you act like Lebby is not making millions to keep making poor decisions. That is exactly how we got here. People at the top making shit decisions on hiring, followed by shit decisions from the ones they hired.
Are we improved? Sure. Still winless in the SEC though and the perception of MSU Football has not changed. We are the worst team in the conference.
Lebby has had more than a handful of bad calls. Game altering calls. He should be held accountable.
There is so much more about this than our own know. Baseball is pretty much funded by those that have been in or very close to the program for a long long time. The reason that this situation exists is due to continuity and stability in the organization for a very long time. That isn?t a perfect situation because a lot of the people that are involved again stayed away for a long time for one very good reason. They all knew that MF. They knew better than to trust him and they stayed away from him and any part of the program that he had any hand in. With all of that finally flushed out the ones that had been staying away came back asking how can they help. Now we have to try very very hard to build the same continuity with the football program and build that financial support system to keep us in the mix. Good things happen slowly, bad things happen fast. I?m very happy that our administration is in for the long game now and not making spur of the moment decisions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
That's interesting. If he's as good as Van Buren why aren't we seeing him get opportunities with more options?Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
15 straight SEC losses affects everyone differently.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoopsDawg
Callling for Lebbys head is silly, but I get being frustrated.
Just so we're clear - I'm not calling for him head now. I'm of the opinion that we will go 0-8 in the sec, and when/if that happens, he has to be fired, period. Can anyone give me an example or a successful HC that has started their career winless in conference for their first 2 years? If there's an example, I might reconsiderQuote:
Originally Posted by HancockCountyDog
So you're both guaranteeing he goes winless and saying he should be fired when he does, while also saying "I'm not calling for it NOW"....but you basically are. So just go ahead and commit that he isn't going to win another game and go all in on firing him now. Can't have it both waysQuote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
No, if he wins a game - 1 damn sec game, I'm cool with bringing him back. I want him to succeed, but if he goes 0-16, there's no redemption for that. Who is your example of a coach that went winless his first 2 seasons and had a good career. Give me any example to dream okQuote:
Originally Posted by CadaverDawg
Lebby beat a ranked opponent already this year. Has a winning record as I type this. Had a lead late on Tennessee. Had a shot at beating Florida on the road.
Stop getting hung up on "SEC record" in the toughest conference in football for a second, and realize that had anyone given you the paragraph I just typed before the season started and a 4-3 record at this point with a legit shot at beating Texas....every single one of us takes it.
Bottom line, if we simply kick the FG and win (or miss it even) we are all ecstatic about Lebby. And even after the horrible decision and loss yesterday, we will all be back on the Lebby train if he beats Texas. So don't be a prisoner of the moment and let one awful decision shape your mindset. If it becomes a pattern and he loses the team, I'm sure we will all be in unison on his firing. But we 100% aren't there yet. And I think anyone that has taken a breath from yesterday realizes that
And if ASU doesn't fall asleep, he's 3-4. See how the what if game goes?Quote:
Originally Posted by CadaverDawg
Does the Arizona State game not count since they aren't SEC? Or are you using "SEC" to reset the goal posts? Arizona State was top 12, and just beat a Top 7....so they are better than several "SEC" teams...so I'm just curious as to the qualifier of "SEC" onlyQuote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
Frank Beamer worked out pretty wellQuote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
I called us to win that game. They aren't good. Literally every sec team would beat themQuote:
Originally Posted by CadaverDawg
Umm, no. It doesn't work that way. If Shapen doesn't throw a pick we may win yesterday. We actually DID beat ASUQuote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
Pretty good example, but he never had a winless conference season. They were pretty bad his first 2 seasons as an independent.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowbeller
You could easily see Croom, Moorhead, and Arnett were not going to be good coaches. Didn't matter the record.
Same goes for Lebby in the opposite way. You can tell he has potential, record be damned. Use your eyes and you know Lebby is no Croom, Moorhead or Arnett. Therefore we aren't close to getting rid of him.
In fact, we need to pack the house and beat Arch next weekend
And Florida actually beat us, but that's different, i guessQuote:
Originally Posted by CadaverDawg
You're gonna be so disappointed next week bc we won't score on them. Wait, you don't hold Lebby to a standard of winning.Quote:
Originally Posted by CadaverDawg
I do. I just use my eyes too.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
If you can honestly say Lebby gives you the same feeling Arnett and Moorhead gave you, I'll just accept that we clearly aren't watching the same team. And agree to disagree. But don't put words in my mouth. Debate me, but don't falsify my words. Nowhere have I said wins don't matter. But don't cherry pick. Can't say wins matter and ignore the Top 12 win he had THIS SEASON.
So we judge Lebby vs arnett and Moorhead? Why not vs Jackie, Mullen, or leach?Quote:
Originally Posted by CadaverDawg
You can't expect "built" results out of a program that is "building" but isn't built yet.
I didn't say that either. You're trying to skew my words again. We can absolutely compare him to others...but those other guys weren't having their heads called for in their 2nd season like Moorhead and ArnettQuote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
You're already Assuming he's losing the next 5 games for Goodness sake
Quote:
Originally Posted by CadaverDawg
Right, bc they weren't horribleQuote:
Originally Posted by CadaverDawg
If you're "not calling for his head until he goes 0-16", then why are you sitting here calling for his head before he's even 0-12? Makes no sense
I have no confidence in him getting it done. I really hope he does. I like him. I like his offense. He just keeps going knuckle head stuff to lose winnable games. The best thing for this program is him figuring it out. And I don't wanna hear it's shapen's fault. OM went and found a backup qb that can run lane's offense that no one wanted. We coulda found a playable #2 too, but we didn'tQuote:
Originally Posted by CadaverDawg
The closest recently in the SEC is Clark Lea who went 0-8 (2-10), 2-6 (5-7), 0-8 (2-10) his first 3 years at Vandy. I suspect his hot seat on here after those 3 years would have been enormous.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
If we win 2 sec games to get a bowl, I would want to extend LebbyQuote:
Originally Posted by Really Clark?
And why people can't see this is just infuriating.Quote:
Originally Posted by CadaverDawg
Moorhead wasn't even having full practices. Cohen started sitting in when word got back to him. Joe would work on a few plays with the offensive starters and call it for the day. He's probably doing the same thing at Akron.
Arnett was doing the same thing. His practices were total cluster****s according some people I've talked to. And having a middle aged, bald man constantly whispering in your ear on the sideline was creepy as hell.
All Croom had to do was run a more modern offense but he refused. He'd rather lose by calling a run play than have his QB audible into a pass play that caught the opposing defense with their pants down scoring a touchdown. You run the play he called. You don't change it even though it won the game.
Lebby is none of these. Lebby is going to be a really good coach in the near future and people better hope it's here and not somewhere else.
Mack Brown went 1-10, 1-10 his first 2 years at UNC. Ended up with a pretty good career.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
That's a good example. I know I asked for it, but now I'm questioning if it's even relevant since teams were built through recruiting then. Now it's just a free for all every offseason. Still though, brown is an excellent example of a guy turning it around big time. You could say he had a track record since he built up Tulane before being at UNCQuote:
Originally Posted by Really Clark?
Good point.Quote:
Originally Posted by CadaverDawg
Shapen blows and I have no qualms calling out players these days. Many make more than most adults and should perform accordingly.
UMMMMMMMQuote:
Originally Posted by HoopsDawg
He's got plenty of leg, so don't think he would have missed a 46 yarder short but he had already missed a 41 yarder earlier in the game over the top of the upright. So nothing was sure about a 46 yarder. I just wish we had run the ball to whatever hash Ferrie likes or center it up, clock the ball, and give it a try. That would have been the smart thing to do.Quote:
Originally Posted by CadaverDawg
I believe even Sunbelt Billy could have won that game last night. Oh yeah. He did!Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7