The hiring of Rick Ray

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Originally Posted by MarketingBully01

Eh, hard to tell. At best it's 1a and 1b. Cal isn't knocking any doors down to promote Antigua for HC positions. Either way it's a wash. Both are good recruiters and I think would do great jobs as Head Coaches. Remember, Payne also did an awesome job at Oregon as an assistant as well.

His top assistant in Memphis was obviously Pastner.

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And Pastner has been a huge success at Memphis.

Perhaps the reason he isn't promoting Antigua is because he relies on the guy and wants to keep him around? I don't see head coaches promoting assistants for head jobs as a good thing. Remember how upset Meyer seemed when Mullen left? Then Florida's offense tanked?

Payne is not 1a or 1b. He is clearly behind Antigua...everyone acknowledges Antigua is their top assistant.

What, specifically, did Payne do at Oregon?

How many SEC games do we win this year? We've done well in the non conference the South Florida win was surprising the FGCU is not seeing they haven't done as well as many expected. So how does this season finish out?

I think we win 7 SEC games this year...would that suffice?

What 7 are you looking at as wins.?

There's 18 SEC games meaning we play 5 teams twice and we lucked out this year with those 5 except UK (UK, aTm, UOM, UGA, Aub). If we can somehow sweep Auburn and Georgia and take 1 from Ole Miss and aTm we could get to 8 SEC wins but even with two unlikely sweeps it will still be a tough task. I only see a win vs USC and maybe 1 win out of @Vandy, @Bama and UT at home. I said 18 wins before we played UNLV but I was wooly drunk. I now say we go 6-12 in the SEC with wins over aTm, UOM, UGA, Aub, USC and I'll predict UT as the 6th win. 10-3 NonConf and 6-12 SEC for a 16-15 record before the SECT. At 6-12 we'll get a tough matchup and lose finishing 16-16 with no post-season appearance.

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Originally Posted by tcdog70

these are the Same Guys that think a 6-6 season is really great. Why can Mullen be judged different than Stans? Rick Stansbury accomplished so much more for a longer period of time than any Coach in MSU history. I agree with a lot that that Coach 34 and Engie post, but I can't wrap my mind around their hate for RS. They Love a can't beat a top 20 Mullen but hate Stans. go figure. Here is what I have learned during this rebuild--Rick Ray won't cut the mustard.

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Since you insist on comparing football and basketball schedules and their respective coaches, I'll provide an example of how a football coach would do what Stans did with our basketball teams.

Stans equivalent in SEC football would be similar to Saban or Miles having the talent they do, but struggling to win 6 or 7 games. That would be completely unacceptable to either fan base. Stans had the talent to make the tourney around 75% of his years and enough talent to make final four runs a few times.

No he didn't. The most frustrating thing about Stans was that he ran off/kicked off/couldn't develop/went straight to the NBA/transferred 99.9% of all the elite talent players. In 14 seasons Stansbury had one first round draft pick. One. And that was his last season. Arnett Moultrie. Monta, Outlaw, Bender etc. never played a minute of hoops for MSU. Stansbury being a great recruiter was and still is a complete myth. He was a ****ing AWFUL recruiter. He MISSED on almost every single player he signed the last 6 years or so. When the players you recruit end up being worse for your program you have officially made it to ****ing AWFUL recruiter status.

And how many of the players would have played at Kentucky the last few years without the one and done. Calipari is considered a great recruiter because he pimps out the one and done system. Most of those would have gone to the NBA and never played at Kentucky either. Two different eras.

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Originally Posted by bully99

And how many of the players would have played at Kentucky the last few years without the one and done. Calipari is considered a great recruiter because he pimps out the one and done system. Most of those would have gone to the NBA and never played at Kentucky either. Two different eras.

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Yeah -- because Kentucky struggled SO much to compete within the constraints of the old system**

It's you and others that are trying to compare State and Kentucky, Stains did some good things and some not so good. I put much of the blame on the Athletic Directors,all of them, Lar,Byrne, and Stricklin. They allowed the program to get totally out of hand. Never had Stains under control.

Who do we beat to get to 7 wins?

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Originally Posted by RICKRAYMADE

Who do we beat to get to 7 wins?

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SEC teams

I think 7 wins is pushing it a little; would be great, possible, but I don't think it's necessarily likely. Here's how I would rate our SEC games in terms from most to least likely to win:

1. Georgia
2. Auburn
3. at Georgia
4. Texas A&M
5. at Auburn
6. South Carolina
7. at Texas A&M
8. Ole Miss
9. Arkansas
10. at Vandy
11. Tennessee
12. at Alabama
13. at Ole Miss
14. at LSU
15. at Missouri
16. Florida
17. Kentucky
18. at Kentucky

It's unlikely we sweep through the easiest 7, so we'll have to take a couple from the Ole Miss/Arkansas/at Vandy/Tennessee/at Alabama group. I don't see us winning any from 13 on.

To me, there are 3 distinct groups from that list. 1-7 are all definitely winnable for us. We're arguably as good or better than all those teams. The 8-12 group are games that are winnable but tough, unlikely to win more than one or two. And the 13-18 group, to me, are games that I would be shocked if we won.

We will beat a Henderson-less OM team in the Hump...that one should be 2nd or 3rd on the list

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Originally Posted by Coach34

We will beat a Henderson-less OM team in the Hump...that one should be 2nd or 3rd on the list

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We'll see. I think we have a pretty good shot at winning that one; I think Ole Miss is better than teams like Vandy, Arkansas, and Alabama, even without Henderson (I don't think he's a positive for them a lot of times) but the fact that it's Ole Miss makes me think we'll give that game a little something extra.

That said, I don't see how that game would be easier than any game against Auburn or Georgia. Those teams are truly awful and are somehow clearly worse than we are.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

We will beat a Henderson-less OM team in the Hump...that one should be 2nd or 3rd on the list

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What did I miss here?

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Originally Posted by RougeDawg

What did I miss here?

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Henderson is suspended for the first two SEC games this season, so he's suspended for our game at the Hump.

Texas A&M and Bammer are terrible also. A&M shoots it as bad as we do.

We have a chance to start 4-1 in the SEC with OM@home, @Bammer, A&M@ home, and then Auburn @home

I know Texas A&M is awful, but I'm not sure we're clearly better than them; I think we're probably about equal.

Winning at Alabama won't be easy. They're not good, but they're also not as bad as their record says. I would place them a little ahead of us as a team, and beating a better team on the road will be a very tough task for us.

Bama is better than their record. They've played a much tougher schedule than us. They were tied with UCLA with under a minute 2 days ago.

I am new on this site but not new to following MSU athletics and reading the different sites where the MSU faithful go to glean info about the programs and discuss amongst themselves. One thing I have observed from reading the replies to this thread is that an awful lot of criticism is directed towards the AD and the HC in basketball without direct observation of the program and the games being played, seems like a lot of folks are looking at stat sheets or seeing the first few minutes of a televised game and drawing a lot of conclusions as to whether Coach Ray is succeeding or not. Have been to many of the men's and women's games and both of the teams are immensely improved over last couple of years, with both the current coaches recruits and the ones that were inherited. Both teams are firmly headed in the right direction and are doing it the right way and being built to be successful for the long run. It will take some patience but more importantly, it is going to take support to make it happen. Both programs brought in some good SEC caliber recruits and good building blocks for the future, and if the next class of recruits measure up to the potential that they are touted to have, we will be in great shape and will have sustainable winning programs to be proud of sooner than later.
As far as "playing the current AAU game" goes, pay attention to what is going on in the NCAA and SEC off-season meetings where it it is and has been a hot topic of discussion and the seedy side of the whole AAU thing is fixing to come crashing down and will be assisted by the DOJ and the IRS when it does. I don't want MSU to be caught up in it when it does.