Prime 2026
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Prime 2026
I mean I think the simplest thing is that we had no talent. I mean we had 3 guys on D that could start at another P4 program and multiple guys that couldn't crack a G5 or FCS 2 deep. I thought Coleman figured some stuff out later on in the season. We just had no big guys up front to plug the run. I thought we stopped the pass really well in our last 4 games. Allowed an avg of 190. After UGA we actually defended the pass really well outside of that flukey Arkansas game. If we can get some impact guys up front and hold on to our secondary stalwarts of Pollock, Jones, and Smith I think we will improve next year. I mean you saw it in the last game, we left Pollock and Jones on islands a lot and they held up really well.Quote:
Originally Posted by StateDawg44
Yes it's possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve
I just don't see what he has to sell for next year to make us attractive to several impact defensive players. We need like Simmons and Sweat combo impact players.
IF Hutzler improves the defense then he might have something to pitch for 2026. But that's assuming we hold on to any of our impact guys as well.
This entire staff has a huge hole to dig out of and will require some major moves in the portal. Not impossible and this will be their first full year of recruiting and not just scrambling to keep the class together. It's possible they can turn this thing around but man it's hard to see at the moment.
Well we have damn near 20 mil(between 18-19) to move with. That will get it done from a talent perspective. I mean look, we're going to have to overpay this cycle. It sucks but that's what it may take this year to improve and we HAVE to improve. Like others have said, you can't have another 2-10 season next year. But with what we're going to be bringing in, I'm hopeful and a bit bullish we can get to 6-7 wins next year and continue the climb. Hell, Clark Lea won 6 at Vandy after going 2-10,5-7,2-10. It can be done.Quote:
Originally Posted by StateDawg44
We lost every SEC game by double digits. This was a combination of little talent and "On the Job Training" at DC in my opinion. This "But didn't we look better" attitude, after 10 losses (including slaughtered by Toledo, who JoMo beat) is one of the problems with our fan base and a very low bar.Quote:
Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve
I'm not arguing it can't be done.Quote:
Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve
I'm arguing that I don't have faith in this current staff to do it. I would love to be wrong.
I actually like Lebby and am happy to give him 3. Some of his hires are the problem. We need a new OL coach just as bad as a legit DC.
Who are these "impact guys" you speak of that we need to hold on to on "D" outside of Smith, Blanton and then who?Quote:
Originally Posted by StateDawg44
I'm not paying Collins a fat check for what turned in this year. A min salary I'm fine with if he is our best option but not a fat check.Quote:
Originally Posted by TrapGame
I don't think Hutz is kept as DC. I think he does stay, like Rosie insinuated, but it's not on the defensive side of the ball.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarius
You pay him what he's worth. My idea of a fat check must not be your idea of a fat check.Quote:
Originally Posted by Really Clark?
Well then let's see what happens. I feel confident we will be getting a new DL coach and possibly a new OL coach. No clue with Coleman. You'd have to pay north of probably 1.5 million to pull a sitting P4 DC and that's the only type of hire you need to make. A G5 DC is no different than Hutzler. A new scheme is not going to help us, it's got to be an influx of talent.Quote:
Originally Posted by StateDawg44
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve
We have a middle of the pack in the SEC NIL budget with a coach who just fielded the worst defense in school history. No one that can make an impact is going to come here when they can get the same money down the street and not ruin their career. Changing defensive coordinators was a must for Lebby to have any chance of succeeding. Even if Hutzler isn’t terrible (he is) no one is coming to play for him when they have similar options. Maybe not no one, but definitely not enough to make up our current talent deficit. You bring up Clark Lea, and the reason he won was because he changed something.
He made $1.1 Mil last year at UNC, I'm not paying him more than that with what he turned in. I'm not sure he has his defensive coordinator chops anymore. I'd rather pay more for Woods than Collins right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by TrapGame
He's still better than what we have by a mile.Quote:
Originally Posted by Really Clark?
The talent changed some this year too as we had a lot of injuries. I'm not sure I'm happy about same DC but we did improve on D at end of season. We didn't lose to OM due to the D. 3TO and poor O execution cost us the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by bulldawg28
Interesting that ASU loss looks better now that it did at the time.
And don't get me wrong. I'm not exactly thrilled about running it back with Hutzler. But I also can say well he had no talent and we showed signs of improvement. Like I have kept saying, if we want to go pluck a sitting P4 DC then by all means go do it. But to make a change just to say you did and end up with a G5 DC who has no recruiting ties to this area and brings no one that can play with him is stupid. If you want to go do what LSU did when they brought in Blake Baker then bring it on. Like if you want to go get Shiel Wood, then by all means do it. The guy has a history of fielding top 25 defenses. But just know, you're going to have to pay 1.3-1.4 to get him. He makes 750K base and with bonuses probably gets up around 850-900K. Add in to that you'll have to buy him out of his contract at Houston and buy out Hutzler if you don't keep him. That's a 3-4 million dollar decision so you better be damn sure that Wood will be the answer. Because if you hire him and strike out with your portal targets that Coleman is already on then you're in the same situation.Quote:
Originally Posted by R2Dawg
We don't have any bonafide impact players on the roster currently. I said that generously giving SVS the benefit of the doubt that we actually get some impact players this coming '25 cycle and Hutzler has something to pitch based off what he brought in this cycle. At this point that's just as possible us getting a couple of studs to transfer here for next season only to see them transfer somewhere else the 2026 season.Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldendawg
Offensively, I'd say Craver would be worth holding on to and Coleman if that's an option. MVB too but he's not really on the radar to leave I wouldn't think.
If Lebby is going to hire the new DC, we may as well keep Hutzler.
If we needed to lose Croom style to OM for people to pull the trigger on Hutzler then maybe that's what should've happened. How can we justify a guy who has fielded not the worst defense in the SEC but arguably in all of D1?
In the SEC we gave up 10 more ppg than the next up which was Ark and we're last in yards allowed.
121st in 3rd down conversion defense
129th in 4th down conversion defense
130th in opponent 1st downs per game
134th (dead last) in opponent completion % at 72%
128th in yards given up per attempt
109th in opponent passing 1st downs
110th in opponent rush yards per attempt
127th in total yards allowed
122nd in opponent yards per play
132nd in sack % & sacks per game
128th in tackles for loss
108th in takeaways per game
105th in interceptions
130th in opponents average time of possession
130th in opponents time of possession %
131st in opponents punts per offensive score
130th in points given up in the 1st qtr
130th in points given up in the 2nd qtr
This isn't just one of the worst State defenses. This IS the worst defense we have ever fielded and talent deficiency or not there's simply no excuse for keeping this man as DC. As others have pointed out we gave up 41 points to Toledo at home who just lost to Akron. Time to send this guy packing and bring in literally anyone else.
Man, I'm a little nervous about what we do with our NIL money. We obviously need to spend a good bit to get out the hole we're in, but nothing I saw this year makes me think we have the staff to justify a big commitment. If we hadn't looked so damn lost on defense, I would say we need to go big just to get back to respectability and generate some momentum.Quote:
Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve
I guess the team played hard, but with every year being a contract year now and not having the type of players that are going to get somebody to spend on them just based on their measurables, I'm not sure how hard it is to get players to continue playing hard anymore.
You have to be comfortable in the uncomfortable in this day and age. And look, if they don't get it done then you move on. I do believe we are going to be better next year. I like the early returns on who I'm hearing we're on out of the portal. IT'S A BUNCH OF GUYS. I believe the uncertainty lies in the fact that we've never built a team this way so fans don't know how to react to 65% of your team coming from the portal. In a perfect world, and moving forward, Lebby will recruit HS ranks harder. But we have to get A LOT BETTER NEXT YEAR. You have to use the portal for that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnson85
I mean look at Kenny Dillingham. They were 3-9 last year. Gave up 33/game and only scored 18/game. He brings in, I believe, 40 transfers and they are now 10-2 and a win away from the CFP. This year they are allowing 22/game and scoring 32/game. They changed OC's but kept the same DC. Dillingham knew he had to use the portal and he went and did it.
This is the new paradigm in college sports and everyone needs to accept it. Highschool recruits are good and all that but it’s incredibly tough to hang onto them now. You will have to do an almost complete rebuild every year and you have to have a coach that can navigate that and create a functional team.Quote:
Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve
At this point, if you are not taking guys from the HS/JUCO ranks that cannot contribute within the first two years outside of probably 1 position(QB), then you do not need to take them. First off, they're taking up a spot of someone in the portal who can contribute and second off, they're probably going to transfer if they don't get onto the field in that amount of time anyways.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawgology
CorrectQuote:
Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve
That's the point. No mattter the money its difficult to get defensive guys to come play for a guy with no track record and the worst defense in the country for the one year he does have. Now if you had a DC that players had confidence in AND 18 million dollars, well then you have something. No matter the money, players still want to be developed and they want to win.Quote:
Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve
They do, but we’re also talking about kids here. Getting 18-21 yos to buy in is a lot easier than getting a venture capitalist on your startup.Quote:
Originally Posted by maroonmania
Correct. You're convincing impressionable 18-21 year olds with a wad of money. Sell a vision and you can get them to come play for you. Not hard to convince a kid who's been told since he was 6 that he was destined for the NFL that he is the missing piece. We didn't have a vision or a foundation last year. Lebby had been here a week and his staff wasn't fully filled out when the portal opened. We're ready to go this year.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brobi-wan
Our competition has as much money as we do and they all actually have competent defensive coordinators to sell. This is not going to go the way you think it is. I would love nothing more than to be wrong, but keeping Hutzler should be a fireable offense. He just fielded the worst defense in school history.Quote:
Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve
You're acting like we had all this talent and it was completely on Hutzler...it wasn't. We had FCS talent STARTING. I have said all along that if you can pull a sitting P4 coordinator, then do it. But don't make a change just to say you made one. Make it because you think it will make you better. Also, Coleman has us on a lot of portal guys so make sure the new DC has those same connections because a DC will not be bringing players with him. He's not the HC.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarius
You know, if there?s a complaint I have of MSU it is the ?slow to adapt? aspect. We were most likely slow in emphasizing football back in the old days and we were most definitely slow on NIL.Quote:
Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve
So, we end up ?not comfortable? with the idea of a bunch of new players. I don?t think many, if any schools fans really are comfortable or happy with the rampant free agency. The allure to CFB was often the fact that you could follow players through the program and watch them progress. Now this is largely, completely gone.
I look at it and wonder how the state of Alabama is so much better in that sport than MS and it?s not close over decades.
It would be hard for us to be any worse.Quote:
Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve
I'll give Lebby and staff some what of a pass last year because they came in mid cycle and had to get what they could. This year will be major for his future. If he can evaluate and get the pieces he needs and see it come together on the field next fall most of this uncertainty will disappear. It could just as easily go south with an injury or busted evaluation though.Quote:
Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve
We had a lack of talent. We didn’t have getting blown out by Toledo talent. We gave up nearly 40 ppg against SEC competition. Thats way more than a talent issue. Bo Bounds is pretty adamant that we are going to change defensive coordinators, so hopefully all of this conversation is for naught because Hutzler 100 % isn’t going to convince sec level difference makers to come play for him and I don’t blame them.Quote:
Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve
Bo Bounds is one of those boosters that needs to shut the hell up and cut the check. That's another one of those Madison "boosters" that likes to have all the info. He likes to sit up at Tico's livin that Y'all Lifestyle!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarius
I do not disagree that Bo is a b*tch and I dislike him a lot, but he has a lot of connections and if he is saying Hutzler is getting fired it is much more credible than Steve saying he isn’t IMO. He’s also right that Hutzler needs to be fired. It would be unprecedented for any DC at any program to come back after those numbers.Quote:
Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve
There were numerous experuenced G5 level DCs that Lebby could have hired last year that would have given us way better results than what we got this year. But he chose the buddy route with a guy having to learn on the job. Outside of maybe Blanton who grew up a State fan, Hutzler couldn't pull anyone significant out of the transfer portal last year. After the results this year you really expect a hugely different result just because we maybe have a few more dollars in the till? As was said, everyone has money now and everyone is going after the same difference makers in the portal.Quote:
Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve
Not for 2025 and not for 2026 either. Lipstick>PigQuote:
Originally Posted by Jarius
Everyone doesn't have the money we got. We have A BUNCH of money. As I have said, it's closer to 20 million than it is to 18 million. The only SEC teams who have more are Bama and UGA. Ole Miss is slightly below us. I doubt those donations hold year over year, but for this offseason, we're playing with the big boys. Again, maybe we move off Coleman after tomorrow, but if we do it better be for a bonafide P4 DC. Not a G5 guy because that is just OTJ training once again.Quote:
Originally Posted by maroonmania
A good G5 DC would be perfectly acceptable.anyone who has never been a DC would not be. If you hire a good G5 guy he will be able to bring a couple of quality adds with him if he is worth his salt and no one we are on in the portal is tied to Hutzler. They are tied to money and knowing the person they are playing for is competent as a play caller.Quote:
Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve
No because a good G5 DC has no connections and will not bring any difference makers with him. If you're swinging, then by god swing. Don't swing just because the bat is in your hands and you'd rather swing than leave it on your shoulder. I do still think there's a high possibility that Barnes moves on, we move Cliff Odom to safeties, and move Coleman to STC. The new DC would coach LBs. And if you didn't want to completely move Coleman off DC then make him Co-DC and bring in a playcaller that can coach safeties. I feel that Barnes and Turner are definitely moving on off this staff. I'm 99.9% sure on one of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarius
Any scenario where Hutzler stays at MSU after a demotion just doesn't seem realistic.Quote:
Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve
I just don't see this. Just like I don't see us "playing with the big boys" this cycle.