Question

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Originally Posted by Jarius

Using Leach's overall record as some sort of measuring stick as if that record should be compared to what is normally considered acceptable is pretty disingenuous. A 10 game All SEC schedule where we had a brand new coach without a spring to install an offense that went from 3 yards and a cloud of dust to throwing it 60 times a game is just not normal circumstances. Not to mention the amount of players that we were playing with due to covid and having to kick off cancers that were babied under Moorhead. Yes, OM had a similar situation. They also had been recruiting to an air raid type system on offense for most of the decade prior to Kiffin arriving and they also won 1 more whopping game than we did and went to the Outback bowl in year 1. A team that was 1 game below .500 in the regular season made what is normally reserved for an 8/9 win team. That sliding scale should be applied to us as well when talking about records.

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Agree. Anyone using the 2020 record without context reveals themself as stupid or biased. Leach may ultimately fail here, but that year just isn't relevant to any other year before or since then. I see people comparing his two-year record to Mullen's first two years or Joe's tenure here and it's astounding that anyone would think those are apples-to-apples.

Some people say "well, what about Kiffin or Pittman!?" Fine, I'll concede that Kiffin and Pittman are better coaches than Leach when you don't have spring practice and are implementing a new scheme against an all SEC schedule. Fortunately, that kind of year only happened once ever and doesn't speak to how every other year works.

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Originally Posted by Hot Rock

What part of not winning with a run first offense is a lie? How many SEC titles in your lifetime have you witnessed? I have never seen one and I was born in 1963. .

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Did you sleep through 1998? Or 9 wins in 99. 2014. Leachs genius offense has not won that much yet. But I digress.

I'm not here to talk leach down. But you people that act like State has Vandys history, are lying.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

Haha- you guys are killing me with this "3 yards and a cloud of dust" BS. It's not like we were running the T and only had 3 passing plays until Leach got here.

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... and the.... "we ain't never won nuttin". Bullish.... we have won.

Negative and apathetic do not appropriately reflect where most stand. Think most of us are simply in a place of it’s time to show us something.

Personally relative to Leach I think it’s a significant risk that he’s seemingly hitched his wagon to Will Rogers, either because he believes in him or he has been unsuccessful luring guys from the portal. Hopefully I’m wrong and we’ll see in the fall. But if I’m not and Rogers doesn’t elevate, Leach will be in the boat without a paddle.

And relative to the AD, if football goes south in the fall, he better hope Chris Jans does well. That might be enough to save his job.

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Originally Posted by Maroonthirteen

Did you sleep through 1998? Or 9 wins in 99. 2014. Leachs genius offense has not won that much yet. But I digress.

I'm not here to talk leach down. But you people that act like State has Vandys history, are lying.

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We won in spite of our offense in 98 and 99. Not to mention the game of football is vastly different today than in that time period. You can’t hit people on defense any more so not taking advantage of that on offense is simply giving away points. Leach won 1 game less last year than we won in our sec championship appearance in 1998. The west in 1998 wasn’t nearly as good as the west in todays climate. Dak Prescott is the starting quarterback of the Dallas cowboys. He would have won in any system. He is special. We can win running the football but there is a hard ceiling when we face teams that are better up front than we are. Offenses like Leach and Kiffin’s give the little guys a chance against almost anyone.

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Originally Posted by Dawgbite

I agree with you 100% on the AD hire. Cohen was a lazy hire. Byrne and Strickland were both better at building the brand. I'm more referring to the employees in the BDC and AD that interact with us peons.

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It is like that at many schools, people in athletic departments change jobs on the regular because they can?t move up otherwise. Most entry level athletic dept jobs pay very little, and rely on interns (mostly unpaid) to do a lot of game day stuff. I?m not just talking about MSU.

Everything you wrote is an admission that State has won in the past. There are plenty of resources. Leach has no excuses.

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Originally Posted by IMissJack

I We are a SEC athletic program but don't have the money to compete.

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FIFY

Leach was a bold hire, I'll give Cohen that. But then again, it was either Leach or an unknown and the next hire will likely be an unknown. If we are ever have another season like 2014, it'll be a miracle.

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Originally Posted by Hot Rock

What part of not winning with a run first offense is a lie? How many SEC titles in your lifetime have you witnessed? I have never seen one and I was born in 1963. You may not like this style or it's boring but Mississippi State had way more boring offenses in the past to me. I remember so many 3 and outs for years that went 1st down run, 2nd down run and being 3rd & 8 with a an incompletion that I am sick of it. Will Leach ever get us a title? I don't know but at least it's trying something different.

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Good post. PLUS on the "born in "63" as well!! Me too but I bet $1K V-Cash I'm still older'n you. LOL.

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Originally Posted by BuckyIsAB****

I wont even respond to any of these, I am just curious. Here it is: Reading another thread on this board lately made me want to ask, why are some of you so negative and apathetic towards the program? Then, why are some of you so anti Leach? Just an honest question.

Also, for the ones that are pro Leach, why are you? And before some of yall say I am not negative I am just being honest, please dont.

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I am pro Leach. The reason is because we need to show that we can do more than just run the ball and that we can develop QB's and WR's in this day and age of football. Leach has already been successful doing that. When he hands the reigns over to someone else they will have a good group of QB's and WR's to work with. It will also help with recruiting those position groups long term going forward as well. He has already won some big games for us- LSU in 2020, Texas A&M, Kentucky, and Auburn last year. We've shown statistical improvement as well as improvement in wins. I think we will show further improvement now that our team is older and isn't young anymore. Our kicker getting hurt last year was simply bad luck. That doesn't happen we win at least 9 games if not more with a very young team and that issue appears to have been addressed in the offseason.

The biggest reason I think fans are apathetic is because we didn't beat Ole Miss and a lot of fans have bought into "Leach can't/won't win rivalry games" plus the fact that he isn't going to dunk on Ole Miss like Dan did or the way Lane is doing it to us now. Whether we like it or not beating Ole Miss is a big factor in our program barometer. We need to accept that rather than deny it. Right or wrong he needs to beat them this year or he will be on the hot seat. At some point our fans won't tolerate that anymore- I can after knowing our team had COVID issues and we lost to their version of our 1999 team. At some point Keenum and others- bit major donor others- won't put up with it. And at some point I won't either.

We've had a lot of good years recently- but for me only 2010 and 2014 really come close to whetting my appetite for a season I would like to have as a MSU fan. None have close to 1998-1999 for me.

Also- there is a disconnect between our fans and the administration. The administration does everything to please our fans in baseball. Uniforms, gameday experience, etc.

Apparently using a form of an interlocking MSU on the helmets and painting the end zones is too much of an ask for them however even if it's a couple of times a year. There is very little that is new or interesting on gameday during the game. When we bring up suggestions we are met with why we can't and it always comes across as BS excuses and us being lied to our faces which is incredibly disrespectful.

On top of that we don't appear to be committed to football recruiting at multiple levels even though we could and should pump more money into it and expand.

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Originally Posted by IMissJack

I'll start. I've been trending negative for 4 years. I don't think JC was a good hire at AD; it's like we didn't even try to make a national search for the best applicant. We are a SEC athletic program but don't act like it. I love that he got us a NC, but it was going to happen eventually, maybe even if he stayed as coach. But, in the SEC football pays the bills and gets the out of state alums to give up the cash. Our game day experience has become stale, and we don't seem to give a shit about the egg bowl anymore. The behind the scenes people seem to be constantly in flux, and with what we seem to pay, I don't doubt it.

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We did a better search than we did for Moorhead.

But the reality is it was between Leach, Joe Judge who maybe would have worked like Sam Pittman or Shane Beamer at best which wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. Judge also may have flopped like he did with the Giants although that's an apples to oranges comparison. We could have had Gene Chizik who would have been here to collect a check and looks at Auburn the same way that Croom looked at Alabama. We could have had Jeff Monken from Army who would have won here but we would have become the Georgia Tech of the SEC and transitioning away from his offense would have been very difficult even with the portal. Could have had Bill Clark from UAB who has never coached outside of Alabama in his life and is not known for attracting great offensive minds. Maybe could have gotten Todd Monken who is not known for his recruiting.

Out of that group we got one of if not the best fit for us at the time.

Leach no longer has the disadvantages he had VS Huskies. No STATE Coach has any bidness starting Egg Bowl losing streaks. If he gives us more WTF Losses combined with another EB Loss this year, he needs to take a permanent Key West Vacation. I think his seat is partially warm right now which is prolly why no new contract which may cost us some Croots.

In this league, you have to be able to line up and smash it down somebody?s throat for 3 yards when the game is on the line. That will never change. We have decades of history that prove this. The lines of scrimmage. There is no reinventing the wheel in this league. I didn?t like the hire from day one. You?re already at a disadvantage and you?re further complicating that by strapping one hand around your balls.

If you?re a ?fantasy league player?, well, good for you. This is the team and offense for you. If you want trophies that matter, this shit will never work.

I don't like a one dimensional offense, because it can win some but it will never win enough. Live by the pass, die by the pass. You must have some semblance of balance to win at a high level. I want to see our football program reach new heights, and that will not be achieved by a one dimensional system that makes no adjustments. So like when you're dating a girl that has some flaw that you know will keep you from reaching the ultimate goal of marriage with her, you move on and find one that can. But that's just me, and I hope I just talked the ol pirate bastard into winning a Natty this year.

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Originally Posted by FriarsPoint

In this league, you have to be able to line up and smash it down somebody?s throat for 3 yards when the game is on the line. That will never change. We have decades of history that prove this. The lines of scrimmage. There is no reinventing the wheel in this league. I didn?t like the hire from day one. You?re already at a disadvantage and you?re further complicating that by strapping one hand around your balls.

If you?re a ?fantasy league player?, well, good for you. This is the team and offense for you. If you want trophies that matter, this shit will never work.

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Couldn't agree more

Well, everybody knows the old saying, put the ball in the air and there are three things that can happen. Two of them are bad.

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Originally Posted by State82

Well, everybody knows the old saying, put the ball in the air and there are three things that can happen. Two of them are bad.

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I've always added a 3rd which is a sack which is amplified when the QB has no wheels.

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Originally Posted by State82

Well, everybody knows the old saying, put the ball in the air and there are three things that can happen. Two of them are bad.

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Yep

State needs to throw the ball. State needs to be able to attract the best talent at QB. Because the QB wins games in college. However just because someone questions Leachs offense, doesn't mean they are calling for the Watson Brown wishbone. That is a conclusion some jump to.