Flores sues NFL

Printable View

Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page

02-02-2022, 10:26 AM
msstate7

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoopsDawg

That is interesting, but I don't see what that has to do with race.

It has nothing to do with race. I find the race deal boring bc he wasn't fired for being black
02-02-2022, 10:26 AM
Irondawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoopsDawg

That is interesting, but I don't see what that has to do with race.

Unless they try to tie it the Hue Jackson thing that came out today and make a claim that teams only hire minority coaches to intentionally lose games.

I?m not sure of all the angles here as I haven?t read the entire allegations
02-02-2022, 10:28 AM
Tater

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irondawg

That may all be true and if so, sue the Giants. But he took on the whole league. If you?ve got a clear case against the Giants use them to make an example.

He's got the Giants and Broncos from the example I've read. And apparently he's got some other coaches willing to step forward. Hue Jackson is a name I've heard (and that Hue was told to tank the Browns). We'll see how it plays out. Just because the entire NFL is mentioned does not mean that excludes the Giants from being found to be a rogue party with bad hiring practices.
02-02-2022, 10:47 AM
662dawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tater

If you're unwilling to even acknowledge that the Dolphins obviously went full scale rebuild between 2018 and 2019 to make your point then you're a lost cause.

Next you'll acknowledge it then blame Flores even though he's not the GM.

ETA: I'm done with this tangent with you. It's not even really relevant. He wasn't fired because of his race. And he was better than Gase. The Dolphins have been a trash organization since Shula left. There's a reason they've only had back to back winning seasons once since 2003 and why most people who don't live in your bubble of stupidity thought it was dumb to move on from him. It's piss poor upper management. But again that's not up for debate here. The Giants & Broncos hiring practices are more under fire.

Again, maybe he was a cancer. He sure isn?t doing himself any favors by acting like a big crybaby right now just because he wasn?t hired somewhere else.
02-02-2022, 10:52 AM
Hot Rock

Quote:

Originally Posted by 662dawg

Again, maybe he was a cancer. He sure isn?t doing himself any favors by acting like a big crybaby right now just because he wasn?t hired somewhere else.

I say he would be a snowflake if he was wronged and didn't sued. It takes some balls to take the NFL and that money machine.

Calling him a crybaby for suing just means you are making yourself judge and jury on the situation when you can't possibly know whether he was wronged or not. I know that I don't know, what do you know about the situation? You been in Miami or NY working in these NFL franchises and posting on this message board?
02-02-2022, 11:03 AM
HoopsDawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hot Rock

I say he would be a snowflake if he was wronged and didn't sued. It takes some balls to take the NFL and that money machine.

Calling him a crybaby for suing just means you are making yourself judge and jury on the situation when you can't possibly know whether he was wronged or not. I know that I don't know, what do you know about the situation? You been in Miami or NY working in these NFL franchises and posting on this message board?

wouldn't it have been better to try and get another head coaching job and win? Like Mike Tomlin. wouldn't that be better than bringing in lawyers. I have read the allegations and I figure out the racism. He was given the head coaching job of the Dolphins for goodness sake.
02-02-2022, 11:04 AM
662dawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hot Rock

I say he would be a snowflake if he was wronged and didn't sued. It takes some balls to take the NFL and that money machine.

Calling him a crybaby for suing just means you are making yourself judge and jury on the situation when you can't possibly know whether he was wronged or not. I know that I don't know, what do you know about the situation? You been in Miami or NY working in these NFL franchises and posting on this message board?

I know he wasn?t not hired because of his race. That?s what I know. The owners/GM?s are hiring the guy they think is the best man for the job regardless of their race & that?s how it should be. This is 2022 not 1822. He?s a crybaby. I?m going out on a limb & saying there?s more to the story than currently being told. However the NFL is probably to woke to call him out & will likely just settle & move on.
02-02-2022, 11:23 AM
Irondawg

The Bill B text is the interesting part of this to me. How would he have a multiple day head start on the media on them hiring Dabool?

We Brian D did work for the Pats a couple a couple of times and the Giants hired their GM from Buffalo so it may have been a package deal that he somehow knew about but they had to wait to announce the HC until they completed ?interviews?.

It will be interesting to see what they can prove here or if Bill was making the same assumption everyone else did when they hired their new GM.

Regardless this seems like a incident seemingly isolated to the NYG. The Denver allegations are more odd and given that they were 3 years ago might harder to validate unless they can find a whistleblower there.
02-02-2022, 11:31 AM
Hot Rock

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoopsDawg

wouldn't it have been better to try and get another head coaching job and win? Like Mike Tomlin. wouldn't that be better than bringing in lawyers. I have read the allegations and I figure out the racism. He was given the head coaching job of the Dolphins for goodness sake.

teh

If they have a case and proof of this happening systemically, then it is absolutely the right thing to do to bring a lawsuit. If they don't have a good case, then yeah, he shouldn't have sued. The lawyers he hired are the ones driving it. Do they have a legit case or are they just after the fees. I do not know.

Would have been easier to just be quite and make a good living coaching somewhere? Maybe. But maybe he was tired of the system being slanted and wanted to make a difference. If he didn't believe it, I doubt this lawsuit happens. He may not win but I bet he believes he was wronged. Was he? is the question. I for sure thought it was obvious to everyone for years the Rooney Rule had become a joke.

We know he is a good coach and he most certainly would have gotten a job somewhere even if it wasn't a HC job making a good living and may have gotten another HC shot but: Some people just can't go away quietly when they feel wronged.
02-02-2022, 12:07 PM
Johnson85

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hot Rock

teh

If they have a case and proof of this happening systemically, then it is absolutely the right thing to do to bring a lawsuit. If they don't have a good case, then yeah, he shouldn't have sued. The lawyers he hired are the ones driving it. Do they have a legit case or are they just after the fees. I do not know.

Would have been easier to just be quite and make a good living coaching somewhere? Maybe. But maybe he was tired of the system being slanted and wanted to make a difference. If he didn't believe it, I doubt this lawsuit happens. He may not win but I bet he believes he was wronged. Was he? is the question. I for sure thought it was obvious to everyone for years the Rooney Rule had become a joke.

We know he is a good coach and he most certainly would have gotten a job somewhere even if it wasn't a HC job making a good living and may have gotten another HC shot but: Some people just can't go away quietly when they feel wronged.

With respect to some people being unable to go away quietly, "whistleblowers" are almost always unlikeable people. Very rarely does being a whistleblower work out well for the whistleblower, so people that become whistleblowers are usually very disagreeable and unlikeable (or they are scammers looking for a payday). Flores seems to pretty clearly be the former. It looks like he was fired pretty much for not being the type of guy that will go along to get along. It doesn't appear that he was fired for his onfield results, which seemed reasonably promising. His only problem legally is that it doesn't look like it was race related. The racial stuff gives him a lot of leverage from a PR standpoint, but it looks like the worst thing that happened to him was he went to some sham interviews, which is demeaning, but I'm not sure gives rise to any claims. What are the damages for your name being circulated for jobs you're not actually in contention for? Judging by Sexton clients, it's a plus, not a negative.

Assuming his allegations are true, I'm not sure what legal claim being retaliated against for not tanking raises. If he was being asked to violate a law, that'd be simple. Not sure what it means to be retaliated against for not violating an NFL rule against tanking (which I assume doesn't implicate any federal or state laws).
02-02-2022, 12:34 PM
Pancho

One thing is for sure and that is that he is basically Kapernicking his chances of ever coaching in the NFL again.
02-02-2022, 02:42 PM
Irondawg

Chicago and Denver also just announced hiring minority DCs that are both promotions.

Going to be interesting to see if the NFL fights it in court because even if you got Flores to go away would you have copycat suits?

This could get more interesting than I originally thought and really blow up if other people try to join the suit.
02-02-2022, 03:21 PM
OLJWales

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tater

Hahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahahhahahahahahahhaha hahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahhahah ahahahahahahahhahahahahahahhahahahahahahhahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahah

******* man I've read some funny spin.. but that, THAT is amazing. Bravo. Top tier stupidity.

He inherited a "second place team" is such a intentionally misleading way to describe it.
Here's an article mid offseason about how the Dolphins were going full scale rebuild: https://ftw.usatoday.com/2019/05/dol...ts-draft-picks

Now for your next point. A quarterback...UPGRADE??? Like really. You look at what Tannehill has done away from Miami, led the Titans to three straight playoff appearances and Call Ryan Fitzpatrick / Josh Rosen an UPGRADE? Hahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahaha hhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Adam Gase did good in 2016. And then proceeded to deteriorate goodwill and cratered the team. One the cusp? he went 6-10 and 7-9 his last two seasons. Including finishing 4-9 with an OT win and the only game winning multi lateral play in league history.

He then proceeded to torpedo the Jets. It was clear he's not fit to be a HC. His schtick wore thin. Meanwhile Flores finished the year 8-1. No one wanted to see those healthy Dolphins in the playoffs.

And for your last sentence, no one is saying his race got him fired. He's saying his unwillingness to tank games or skirt league rules got him fired. The Dolphins wanted him to court Brady while it was still tampering. That led to an icy relationship and departure. Miami just has shitty ownership and felt the need to fluff themselves after being panned by the media for firing a dubbed rising star like Flores after the finish the team had.

The way they described his relationship with ownership is enough to ensure he'll most likely never get a HC again.

The part where an issue of discrimination comes in is these faux interviews. The Broncos one sounds extremely egregious.

And it's comical when you look at it. The rooney rule serves to help you make a better decision. Coaches know that you HAVE to go through this process. You gain no benefit in deciding to hire the first interviewee. You only serve to hurt yourself by not conducting all your required interviews. Is it shocking that the teams named as flubbing this process (Broncos, Giants) are already searching for a coach again?

I think the Rooney Rule serves no useful purpose. Don't GM's & Owners have a good idea going in as to who they want? Why force another interview that's not going anywhere? Has one of these forced interviews ever flipped to a hire??
02-02-2022, 03:37 PM
Hot Rock

Quote:

Originally Posted by 662dawg

I know he wasn?t not hired because of his race. That?s what I know. The owners/GM?s are hiring the guy they think is the best man for the job regardless of their race & that?s how it should be. This is 2022 not 1822. He?s a crybaby. I?m going out on a limb & saying there?s more to the story than currently being told. However the NFL is probably to woke to call him out & will likely just settle & move on.

I know this: You are wrong when you call him a crybaby. The easy thing for him to do would be to walk away. He could have gotten another job, he is a good coach. Now, maybe not and I assure you he knows the risk he is taking and was willing to do it anyway. That takes balls, not a crybaby.

The Giants may not have purposely not hired him because of race but they damn sure didn't give him or any other minority a legit interview as required by the NFL rule. So, that lawsuit may just win. Like it or not.

These are the NFL Rules put in place to give minorities a chance. They didn't have to hire him but they were expected to interview him in good faith and they didn't. The NFL as a whole has made a mockery of their own rule by allowing the Giants and others to circumvent the Rooney Rule for years. It's been a topic and anyone paying attention knew this was bound to happen at some point. Somebody would have the balls to stand up and say, this is wrong.

But but I wanted this other guy. They still could have hired him but they had to interview a minority candidate before making the hire and didn't. What were they scared of? Him interviewing well?
02-02-2022, 04:23 PM
Tater

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLJWales

I think the Rooney Rule serves no useful purpose. Don't GM's & Owners have a good idea going in as to who they want? Why force another interview that's not going anywhere? Has one of these forced interviews ever flipped to a hire??

You're expecting this rule to solve racism and discrimination and be perfect, and if it's not then it's shit. The Rooney Rule is by no means perfect. But it's a start. And it's clear that some teams can't even do that much. And yet you think the solution is that it's not needed? Just do away with it because why? It bothers you?

Propose something better then. Stop letting perfect be the enemy of good and work to improve / replace the process instead of deprecate it.
02-02-2022, 04:56 PM
662dawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hot Rock

I know this: You are wrong when you call him a crybaby. The easy thing for him to do would be to walk away. He could have gotten another job, he is a good coach. Now, maybe not and I assure you he knows the risk he is taking and was willing to do it anyway. That takes balls, not a crybaby.

The Giants may not have purposely not hired him because of race but they damn sure didn't give him or any other minority a legit interview as required by the NFL rule. So, that lawsuit may just win. Like it or not.

These are the NFL Rules put in place to give minorities a chance. They didn't have to hire him but they were expected to interview him in good faith and they didn't. The NFL as a whole has made a mockery of their own rule by allowing the Giants and others to circumvent the Rooney Rule for years. It's been a topic and anyone paying attention knew this was bound to happen at some point. Somebody would have the balls to stand up and say, this is wrong.

But but I wanted this other guy. They still could have hired him but they had to interview a minority candidate before making the hire and didn't. What were they scared of? Him interviewing well?

I?m not wrong. He?s a crybaby. The teams hired the guys they wanted. He wasn?t their choice. He stomped his feet & screamed ?racism? because he wasn?t that choice. If the Rooney rule wasn?t in place then this would have never happened in the first place. The team could have just hired who they wanted to & went on about their business. I wouldn?t be surprised if these teams also interviewed other white coaches after they already knew who they were going to hire. Should they just find a reason to sue as well?
02-02-2022, 05:04 PM
Hot Rock

Quote:

Originally Posted by 662dawg

I?m not wrong. He?s a crybaby. The teams hired the guys they wanted. He wasn?t their choice. He stomped his feet & screamed ?racism? because he wasn?t that choice. If the Rooney rule wasn?t in place then this would have never happened in the first place. The team could have just hired who they wanted to & went on about their business. I wouldn?t be surprised if these teams also interviewed other white coaches after they already knew who they were going to hire. Should they just find a reason to sue as well?

Nope you wrong. A man stands up for himself is not a crybaby. In fact, he is considered by many to be more of a man than the ones that tuck their tails and run. It those Belichick texts turn out to be true, then the Giants circumvented the rules, period. If you can't get that part then you are blinded by your prejudice.

He may lose this lawsuit but that does not mean that he doesn't have balls. In fact, if he loses he has gigantic balls because he will have sabotaged his career to get his day in court.
02-02-2022, 05:08 PM
Interpolation_Dawg_EX

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irondawg

Chicago and Denver also just announced hiring minority DCs that are both promotions.

Going to be interesting to see if the NFL fights it in court because even if you got Flores to go away would you have copycat suits?

This could get more interesting than I originally thought and really blow up if other people try to join the suit.

The irony of the NFL fighting with a black man in court and their "end racism" campaign is..interesting. I wonder what the next NFL woke commercial topic will be.
02-02-2022, 05:16 PM
662dawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tater

You're expecting this rule to solve racism and discrimination and be perfect, and if it's not then it's shit. The Rooney Rule is by no means perfect. But it's a start. And it's clear that some teams can't even do that much. And yet you think the solution is that it's not needed? Just do away with it because why? It bothers you?

Propose something better then. Stop letting perfect be the enemy of good and work to improve / replace the process instead of deprecate it.

What racism?

This is the problem. You ASSUME race is a factor. Again this is 2022 not 1822.

Do you know who the most discriminated against people in the world are right now? Straight white males & black conservative free thinkers.

The perfect system is to throw the RACE card in the trash can & move on in life. It?s a classic divide & conquer tool used by Marxists. No owner in the NFL is hiring or firing anyone based on their race. It?s just not happening.

And the only racist thing about this entire topic is the Rooney rule itself. It is the purest form of racism in all of America. It states that you have to interview head coaching candidates based on their race.. not on performance, experience, potential or an owner/GM just going with their gut.

With that said, I?d be ecstatic if my Saints were to hire Mike Tomlin tomorrow & didn?t interview one white guy or anyone else for the job. Not because of his race, but because the man can coach and has had long term success.
02-02-2022, 05:16 PM
StarkVegasSteve

The Rooney Rule is definitely in need of overhaul. It was a good idea 13-14 years ago when it was implemented but nowadays it seems 90% of the teams are just bringing in a minority candidate to say they did. There are a lot of minority candidates that deserve a look over some of the people that were hired last cycle. I mean do you really think Eric Bienemy or Byron Leftwich would have done worse in Jax than Urban? I?m not saying that minority coaches need to be given jobs just because of their race, but some definitely need to be given a closer look. Flores is a hell of defensive mind and he is a hell of head coach. He would be an upgrade over 5-6 current HCs.

Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page