Honest question for Leach supporters

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Originally Posted by TrapGame

We should all be hoping like Hell that Leach wins here. Having Leach a total failure here isn't going to improve how potential head coaches look at us. JoMo then Leach would give us a coaches' graveyard title. It would be tough to get some mediocre retread like Chizik at that point.

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Yep. And if you could get a retread like Chizik how excited is that going to make you?

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Originally Posted by Dawgface

Yep. And if you could get a retread like Chizik how excited is that going to make you?

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Zero excitement.

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Originally Posted by Percho

The problem as I see it R2 is you want Leach to do something different, where as Leach wants to see the team do something different, that being, through practice, play with more precision and with the same concept we play with when we have been down to points. Make plays. I believe that is what Leach and the coaches are trying to teach and want our players to learn to do.

Many on here have said there are plays, there, to be made down field.

Is we can learn to do what the coaches are trying to teach, we will look like a totally different team on offense and will be blowing out teams like we have been playing including NC State,

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Here is the problem with that philosophy. Every system will work if it is run perfectly. Reality check, no team will execute anything perfectly so you gotta run something that can absorb mistakes yet still be effective.

Humans make mistakes, that is who we are. I know that is foreign to some. Human performance management studies show on average a person makes 5 mistakes per hour. This will never work if practice and perfection is what it takes. I've heard that before from a ton a coaches.

There must be margin in life or you ain't gonna win.

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Originally Posted by Johnson85

What do you think he did the previous roughly 12 seasons where he had his teams ready to beat teams like Memphis (well really, even in some of those, he would have an inexplicable loss but make up for it with an upset)?

I don't know why this team can't seem to run his offense. I'm skeptical that we're ever going to beat elite defenses with it, but we sure as shit should be able to run it well enough to beat Memphis. I am still hopeful that we will be similar to Dan every year but 2014. A good enough offense that lets us when games with defense and be 6-6 to 8-4 most years.

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Agree with that, even with a flawed system or execution to a degree we should beat Memphis. One call and we win. One non-fumble and we win. Winning the game would still have left us with lots of issues but it would feel better than 2-1.

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Originally Posted by R2Dawg

Here is the problem with that philosophy. Every system will work if it is run perfectly. Reality check, no team will execute anything perfectly so you gotta run something that can absorb mistakes yet still be effective.

Humans make mistakes, that is who we are. I know that is foreign to some. Human performance management studies show on average a person makes 5 mistakes per hour. This will never work if practice and perfection is what it takes. I've heard that before from a ton a coaches.

There must be margin in life or you ain't gonna win.

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I wonder how much we practice against the defense we know we will see? If Will isn't practicing against drop 8 then it is going to take extra time to learn what to look for down field. Because that makes the games the practices.

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Originally Posted by Percho

I wonder how much we practice against the defense we know we will see? If Will isn't practicing against drop 8 then it is going to take extra time to learn what to look for down field. Because that makes the games the practices.

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I could be wrong but I think someone posted that we don't practice against it because our defense isn't a drop eight defense.

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Originally Posted by Catfish

I could be wrong but I think someone posted that we don't practice against it because our defense isn't a drop eight defense.

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Just wow, what an admission to our preparation. But it's Will's fault. Will don't make the practice schedule.

We practice against the drop 8 weekly.
Granted, it is a scout team defense. But still.

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Originally Posted by R2Dawg

What is he going to do different to make any of the remaining games any better?

I'd love to have some hope because I don't want this humiliation for MSU but based on decades of Leach history, he ain't changin.

Hope you who are ultimate optimist?

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What's he going to do? Push for more consistency(OL especially)and less mistakes and dumb penalties. Get Will to be more decisive, quicker, and look for deeper routes to stretch the defense(basically what he's already said)

What should he do? All the above plus be more creative in run game. Be more creative on the dump offs to our RBs beside just running to the sideline and standing out there waiting to get hit(give them a route to run).

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Originally Posted by BuckyIsAB****

We are still miles ahead of what Moorhead left. We had legit effort problems under Moorhead. Leach will have none of those

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I thought #6 gave up on a pass Saturday on a skinny post that went by his shin as it hit the ground. I was pretty pissed he didn't try harder for that one after watching it about 6 times on replay. But not saying your post is wrong. Just one instance IMO.

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Originally Posted by Bdawg

I thought #6 gave up on a pass Saturday on a skinny post that went by his shin as it hit the ground. I was pretty pissed he didn't try harder for that one after watching it about 6 times on replay. But not saying your post is wrong. Just one instance IMO.

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I thought the same thing when I saw it live. He had slowed down about 12 yards before the ball came down.

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Originally Posted by Catfish

I could be wrong but I think someone posted that we don't practice against it because our defense isn't a drop eight defense.

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I believe that was in reference to the spring/summer/fall workouts. Once the season starts, we scout what we expect to see in the game. I'm sure they worked on drop 8 in the off season too, I think just to the extent they are putting our offense against our defense, they are not sacrificing a lot of defensive prep time to have them play a drop 8.

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Originally Posted by Percho

I thought the same thing when I saw it live. He had slowed down about 12 yards before the ball came down.

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There would be some after practice "conditioning" for him if I were coach after watching film.

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Originally Posted by Quaoarsking

I've basically idolized the man for 15+ years

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This explains a lot.

You can explain away our loss to a vastly less talented team by calling it a "screw job by the refs", but we never should have been in that position anyway. We refused to put away a bad team, then we did stupid things that shifted momentum away from us and got their "crowd" back into it. The penalties, dumb coaching decisions, refusal to challenge even the most obvious incorrect calls, general laziness of the coaching staff, and other chronic negatives aren't going to just magically disappear. You'll be seeing the same things in late November as you saw Saturday.

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Originally Posted by thf24

I wouldn't call myself a "supporter," but I'm still seeing enough not to write him off mid-season. I'd be lying though if I said I'm not starting to wish we could just wake up tomorrow and have a modern spread option offense again like the one that was so good for us for most of nine seasons.

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Yeah, I think Cohen had the right idea with the Moorhead hire, but he chose the wrong guy. The Moorhead offense was supposed to carry over a lot of what Mullen ran. Moorhead tried to tailor it to what Fitz could do, but it just wasn't working. Add in that he had no idea how to be a head coach at a major program and it just turned into a disaster. We needed someone who basically ran the Urban Meyer/Dan Mullen system.

In all honesty, Luke Fickell probably should have been our #1 target in 2017. I don't know if we could have pulled him, since he seems to be an Ohio guy, but we should have tried really hard.
Kyle Whitingham, #2. Again, a hard pull more than likely.
I don't know who all is out there that runs that offense, but I'm sure it's well known in coaching circles and by ADs. We had something that was working, and we've moved away from it twice in a row. It's not looking to turn out well.

And here's the last thing to consider. Let's say Leach gets it running perfectly, and we start winning 8 to 10 games a year. Well, he's retiring in the next 5 to 10 years, most likely closer to 5. Then what? No one runs this offense anymore. Regardless of whether this ends well or not, at some point we're going to be stuck with a major roster rehaul, and it's not going to be pretty. This is the main reason I never liked the hire to begin with.

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Originally Posted by Johnson85

I believe that was in reference to the spring/summer/fall workouts. Once the season starts, we scout what we expect to see in the game. I'm sure they worked on drop 8 in the off season too, I think just to the extent they are putting our offense against our defense, they are not sacrificing a lot of defensive prep time to have them play a drop 8.

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A bit of an enlightenment for me, if every team we play has to play one defense against us - we have major problem. Everyone plays the same simplistic defensive alignment as we don't offer any multidimensional threat (no run game) and they shut down the short passing game and we are toast. We must adjust or we are looking to be lucky to win 4 this year.

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Originally Posted by Bdawg

What's he going to do? Push for more consistency(OL especially)and less mistakes and dumb penalties. Get Will to be more decisive, quicker, and look for deeper routes to stretch the defense(basically what he's already said)

What should he do? All the above plus be more creative in run game. Be more creative on the dump offs to our RBs beside just running to the sideline and standing out there waiting to get hit(give them a route to run).

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Agree on some of what he should do. He will do some of what you say. Not sure he pushes Will too much on downfield throws. His philosophy is do what the D gives you which is short dump offs. You can draw up plays to send guys deep and target them but we don't do it. It would help but still gotta do the run game piece as well.

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Originally Posted by R2Dawg

Agree on some of what he should do. He will do some of what you say. Not sure he pushes Will too much on downfield throws. His philosophy is do what the D gives you which is short dump offs. You can draw up plays to send guys deep and target them but we don't do it. It would help but still gotta do the run game piece as well.

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Well he did say in the press conference Will is not taking advantage of some opportunities to throw downfield and relying on the dump off too much. Wish we could just pour some experience into Will but in reality we just have to hope it clicks really soon.

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Originally Posted by Bdawg

Well he did say in the press conference Will is not taking advantage of some opportunities to throw downfield and relying on the dump off too much. Wish we could just pour some experience into Will but in reality we just have to hope it clicks really soon.

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If he really believes that then two things.

What took him so long to see this?

Why don't he help Will to do that then? Call some specific plays to throw downfield. I've seen Leach not do anything to encourage Will to either throw downfield or run the ball when running is there. History shows that is against what Leach does.

Maybe he is having a crisis of belief right now - he needs to. His life work is not going to work like it used to; he better adapt or this will end badly for him.

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Originally Posted by R2Dawg

If he really believes that then two things.

What took him so long to see this?

Why don't he help Will to do that then? Call some specific plays to throw downfield. I've seen Leach not do anything to encourage Will to either throw downfield or run the ball when running is there. History shows that is against what Leach does.

Maybe he is having a crisis of belief right now - he needs to. His life work is not going to work like it used to; he better adapt or this will end badly for him.

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I think Leach has mentioned it beside yesterday about going downfield. He may telling him in practice too. Idk. I need a larger view of the field besides what the TV shows in order to see if Leach sends out receivers to all levels most every play. I would assume he does. Will has to adjust and find the open guy that everyone says seems to be there. As far as the running game, I'm pretty sure Leach leaves that to the QB. He calls pass plays and the QB must check. But I said earlier I want him to adapt the run game too. He can still have the QB check to it, but we must add some more plays and wrinkles in this department.