Is this the same as "pounding sand?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Coach34

There is zero reason to accept incompetence in Year 1. We see the incompetence. It's not hidden. We dont have to accept that. Its plain and simple.

Year 1 with Jackie? We saw immediate progress
Year 1 with Croom? We saw immediate incompetence
Year 1 with Mullen? We saw immediate progress
Year 1 with JoVester? We saw immediate incompetence
Year 1 with Leach? Immediate incompetence

---

Did they begin their first year without a Spring and have to deal with COVID guidelines all year long? Did they have to play a full SEC schedule? You're not being fair. Leach's offense is drastically different that every single one of those coaches on your list. Not having a spring hurts him more than others. I've said before that it's akin to having O'Leary come in and attempt to install the triple option while also in the midst of all this. This isn't a fair year to throw harsh judgments on the man.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Matt3467

Did they begin their first year without a Spring and have to deal with COVID guidelines all year long? Did they have to play a full SEC schedule? You're not being fair. Leach's offense is drastically different that every single one of those coaches on your list. Not having a spring hurts him more than others. I've said before that it's akin to having O'Leary come in and attempt to install the triple option while also in the midst of all this. This isn't a fair year to throw harsh judgments on the man.

---

Another big difference is unlike the others Leach is playing an All-SEC schedule. We don't have New Mexico, Tulane, and Alabama A&M to tune up with and work on things and give us three easy wins.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Todd4State

Another big difference is unlike the others Leach is playing an All-SEC schedule. We don't have New Mexico, Tulane, and Alabama A&M to tune up with and work on things and give us three easy wins.

---

Exactly. We would be sitting at 5 wins right now with Missouri left on the schedule.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Coach34

There is zero reason to accept incompetence in Year 1. We see the incompetence. It's not hidden. We dont have to accept that. Its plain and simple.

Year 1 with Jackie? We saw immediate progress
Year 1 with Croom? We saw immediate incompetence
Year 1 with Mullen? We saw immediate progress
Year 1 with JoVester? We saw immediate incompetence
Year 1 with Leach? Immediate incompetence

---

What do you mean by not accepting it? I mean I‘m all for bitching about our offense. I just about throw something into the tv screen and yell at his ass when we play, but we have to accept it. Not accepting it to me is firing him and that’s not a realistic option.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Coach34

There is zero reason to accept incompetence in Year 1. We see the incompetence. It's not hidden. We dont have to accept that. Its plain and simple.

Year 1 with Jackie? We saw immediate progress
Year 1 with Croom? We saw immediate incompetence
Year 1 with Mullen? We saw immediate progress
Year 1 with JoVester? We saw immediate incompetence
Year 1 with Leach? Immediate incompetence

---

And every thing to do with the program is in better shape than it was with Moorhead. We are in better shape, we haven?t quit and we are torching the barn and killing the rats

Mississippi State Bulldogs (Southeastern Conference) (1979–1985)
1979 Mississippi State 3–8 2–4 8th
1980 Mississippi State 9–3 5–1 3rd L Sun 19
1981 Mississippi State 8–4 4–2 3rd W Hall of Fame 17
1982 Mississippi State 5–6 2–4 8th
1983 Mississippi State 3–8 1–5 8th
1984 Mississippi State 4–7 1–5 T–9th
1985 Mississippi State 5–6 0–6 10th
Mississippi State: 37–42 15–27

immediate incompetence

Two good years

Then everybody figured it out, SEC defenses just too good.

F--k it. I just don't like his offense. It's not MSU football and never will be. Also, the recruiting footprint won't change to the degree that he needs to get the players that he needs. Cohen has to go and Leech along with him.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BuckyIsAB****

And every thing to do with the program is in better shape than it was with Moorhead. We are in better shape, we haven?t quit and we are torching the barn and killing the rats

---

Coach- I disagree. Because while I agree the discipline will be better- the talent level is going to continue to drop. It will be shocking to me to see Leach recruit to the level he needs to make his offense work. And thats on top of hoping we an still pull talent on D. When guys like Cross and others are considering leaving- that will take time to overcome. This program wasnt a 4-5 year rebuild when Leach got the job. It was a 1 year retooling and lets roll

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Coach34

Coach- I disagree. Because while I agree the discipline will be better- the talent level is going to continue to drop. It will be shocking to me to see Leach recruit to the level he needs to make his offense work. And thats on top of hoping we an still pull talent on D. When guys like Cross and others are considering leaving- that will take time to overcome. This program wasnt a 4-5 year rebuild when Leach got the job. It was a 1 year retooling and lets roll

---

You?re just looking at it on paper and not looking at the culture.

How do you build a good culture with a team full of wusses? That?s what we?ve got. Older guys on the team that can?t handle an ounce of adversity.

If you don?t correct that, you end up like Tennessee. You have to kill it and then build back

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Todd4State

Another big difference is unlike the others Leach is playing an All-SEC schedule. We don't have New Mexico, Tulane, and Alabama A&M to tune up with and work on things and give us three easy wins.

---

It has nothing to do with wins and losses. It has to do with how we look and the trajectory of the program. Mullen was 5-7 his first year but that team was good, best 5-7 team in country. BTW that team also lost to ranked Houston and GT barely - robbed in both. Not the same thing happening this year Covid or all SEC schedule or not. Houston and GT way better than UK, Ark, OM, and Mizz on this years schedule.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Coach34

Coach- I disagree. Because while I agree the discipline will be better- the talent level is going to continue to drop. It will be shocking to me to see Leach recruit to the level he needs to make his offense work. And thats on top of hoping we an still pull talent on D. When guys like Cross and others are considering leaving- that will take time to overcome. This program wasnt a 4-5 year rebuild when Leach got the job. It was a 1 year retooling and lets roll

---

34, agree. You mean Cross is thinking of leaving? What a disaster on our hands.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Coach34

There is zero reason to accept incompetence in Year 1. We see the incompetence. It's not hidden. We dont have to accept that. Its plain and simple.

Year 1 with Jackie? We saw immediate progress
Year 1 with Croom? We saw immediate incompetence
Year 1 with Mullen? We saw immediate progress
Year 1 with JoVester? We saw immediate incompetence
Year 1 with Leach? Immediate incompetence

---

This tells the story. It has been obvious every time. We all hold out hope because we love MSU but you reveal the facts, it is painfully obvious. Like Leach said, we may have to find another team, cause he ain't changin. That is what he meant.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Coach34

Coach- I disagree. Because while I agree the discipline will be better- the talent level is going to continue to drop. It will be shocking to me to see Leach recruit to the level he needs to make his offense work. And thats on top of hoping we an still pull talent on D. When guys like Cross and others are considering leaving- that will take time to overcome. This program wasnt a 4-5 year rebuild when Leach got the job. It was a 1 year retooling and lets roll

---

Cross leaving would be breaking news to me.

Also, we are pretty much a triple option team now if you think about it. No it is not the veer but it is essentially a gimmick offense that gets better with reps. Just like practicing ride and decide for hours on end we run mesh 4 verts smash etc...we do not have many pass protections maybe 3 at the most...point is this was designed to be an equalizer. To not need to be more overly talented than your opponent to beat them. Leach wins with walk on white boys at slot and smart accurate QBs. Huge OL that are mean. He can find all of that here and can recruit nationally better than anyone we have ever had.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by R2Dawg

It has nothing to do with wins and losses. It has to do with how we look and the trajectory of the program. Mullen was 5-7 his first year but that team was good, best 5-7 team in country. BTW that team also lost to ranked Houston and GT barely - robbed in both. Not the same thing happening this year Covid or all SEC schedule or not. Houston and GT way better than UK, Ark, OM, and Mizz on this years schedule.

---

You also have to take into account who Dan was replacing. Croom did a very good job of setting the tone after Sherrill. Dan inherited a tough group of players and not a culture mess. It would've been vastly different had Dan followed the mess Sherrill left or if instead of Croom it was Moorhead he replaced.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by was21

F--k it. I just don't like his offense. It's not MSU football and never will be. Also, the recruiting footprint won't change to the degree that he needs to get the players that he needs. Cohen has to go and Leech along with him.

---

A lot of feelings in this post.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Matt3467

A lot of feelings in this post.

---

“Not MSU football” should be the goal. We have an all time below .500 record. Why do people insist the only way we can win is the way that has failed for about a century?