College football around the country

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Originally Posted by Captain Falcon

Todd... This is kinda nuts. We went 9-4 in 2015. Yes, 2016 was a disappointment, but we also had two games that were lost due to last second field goal attempts and another game that was a double overtime road loss to a 9 win team. As frustrating and sometimes even bad as that team was, they were a hair away from 8-4. We were a good team again in 2017 and in 2018 we probably win 9 or 10 with Mullen in charge.

Mullen left and our program immediately took a very noticeable step backward. I cannot wrap my mind around thinking we would have been better off had he left sooner. He set the standard for our program so high that we just fired a coach who never lost to Ole Miss and never missed a bowl game. That was unfathomable pre-Mullen.

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I think Todd's point is - after all we had done (football facility upgrade, stadium expansion, etc), Dan was willing to leave us for Maryland. Think about that. Miami, flirting with UGA, I get. Maryland? That says the guy is just looking for an out, any out and it was only a matter of when not if. So the point by admin should have been "not happy? Leave." Instead we get pouty Dan and Sirmon in 2016.

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Originally Posted by sandwolf

Do what? You would've forced him out at the end of 2015? After he had won 19 games over the previous 2 years? Well thank God you're not our athletic administration because that would have been the most incredibly stupid thing that it had ever done.

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Originally Posted by Captain Falcon

Todd... This is kinda nuts. We went 9-4 in 2015. Yes, 2016 was a disappointment, but we also had two games that were lost due to last second field goal attempts and another game that was a double overtime road loss to a 9 win team. As frustrating and sometimes even bad as that team was, they were a hair away from 8-4. We were a good team again in 2017 and in 2018 we probably win 9 or 10 with Mullen in charge.

Mullen left and our program immediately took a very noticeable step backward. I cannot wrap my mind around thinking we would have been better off had he left sooner. He set the standard for our program so high that we just fired a coach who never lost to Ole Miss and never missed a bowl game. That was unfathomable pre-Mullen.

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I'm not Todd but I think he means this as a final nail in the coffin moment. Mullen left us every November we had a winning record to "explore" other options. It cost us, not just games but recruits too. The Maryland job should have been taken as a slap in the face to the AD and president. Stricklin being a little loafer wearing worm makes perfect sense. And remember, the rumor going around when IB took over as AD was he had a stern conversation w/ Mullen and told him no more job hunting in November. If he was looking then we were looking. That's when he knew the jig was up and proceeded to get the hell outta Dodge.

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Originally Posted by TrapGame

I'm not Todd but I think he means this as a final nail in the coffin moment. Mullen left us every November we had a winning record to "explore" other options. It cost us, not just games but recruits too. The Maryland job should have been taken as a slap in the face to the AD and president. Stricklin being a little loafer wearing worm makes perfect sense. And remember, the rumor going around when IB took over as AD was he had a stern conversation w/ Mullen and told him no more job hunting in November. If he was looking then we were looking. That's when he knew the jig was up and proceeded to get the hell outta Dodge.

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Oh come on. He left in 2017 because there were A TON of jobs better than our own that opened up, not because "the jig was up". He went to Florida and immediately took a 4-8 team and won 10 games in his first year, which is very close to what his ceiling would've been at MSU in 2018 even with all the talent he had. There's no scenario where we tell him he's not welcome back for 2018 barring some major off-field scandal. He just took a better job. And with Maryland, while it is not nearly as good of a job as the one he ended up taking, you can make an argument that the Under Armour connection has them in a position where they could take off with the right coach in place, and it's not unreasonable to think they could've made some big money and facilities related promises that had Mullen willing to listen.

And look, by no means do I think Mullen is or was perfect, and I was just as frustrated by some of his job hunting shenanigans as the rest of you. I realize there was A LOT of frustration with him from the 2015 Egg Bowl all the way until he replaced Sirmon with Grantham, myself included. That wasn't a great stretch for him, but to his credit he did a lot to fix it before he left. I wish he had left under different circumstances and the 2017 Egg Bowl will always make me mad when I think about it. But I'm never going to be one of these people that thinks "we would've been better off had Mullen just gone ahead and left". Because we've already seen with the Moorhead transition that you can make a hire that on paper looks like a good one and give him a really good roster from Day 1 and it still can end up being a disaster.

I mean shoot, I'm as excited about Mike Leach as anybody, but I don't think anybody expects him to really do that much better than what Mullen did here, if he does any better at all. Mullen is the only coach in any of our lifetimes who both stayed here long enough to make a real impact and also left on his own terms when the program was doing well. He is the standard to which all coaching hires will be compared to moving forward, unless we strike gold and find someone who drastically outperforms him, though our history tells us that's going to be really hard to do.

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Originally Posted by Captain Falcon

Oh come on. He left in 2017 because there were A TON of jobs better than our own that opened up, not because "the jig was up". He went to Florida and immediately took a 4-8 team and won 10 games in his first year, which is very close to what his ceiling would've been at MSU in 2018 even with all the talent he had. There's no scenario where we tell him he's not welcome back for 2018 barring some major off-field scandal. He just took a better job. And with Maryland, while it is not nearly as good of a job as the one he ended up taking, you can make an argument that the Under Armour connection has them in a position where they could take off with the right coach in place, and it's not unreasonable to think they could've made some big money and facilities related promises that had Mullen willing to listen.

And look, by no means do I think Mullen is or was perfect, and I was just as frustrated by some of his job hunting shenanigans as the rest of you. I realize there was A LOT of frustration with him from the 2015 Egg Bowl all the way until he replaced Sirmon with Grantham, myself included. That wasn't a great stretch for him, but to his credit he did a lot to fix it before he left. I wish he had left under different circumstances and the 2017 Egg Bowl will always make me mad when I think about it. But I'm never going to be one of these people that thinks "we would've been better off had Mullen just gone ahead and left". Because we've already seen with the Moorhead transition that you can make a hire that on paper looks like a good one and give him a really good roster from Day 1 and it still can end up being a disaster.

I mean shoot, I'm as excited about Mike Leach as anybody, but I don't think anybody expects him to really do that much better than what Mullen did here, if he does any better at all. Mullen is the only coach in any of our lifetimes who both stayed here long enough to make a real impact and also left on his own terms when the program was doing well. He is the standard to which all coaching hires will be compared to moving forward, unless we strike gold and find someone who drastically outperforms him, though our history tells us that's going to be really hard to do.

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The bromance is strong with this one.

Okay, we gonna agree to disagree.

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Originally Posted by Captain Falcon

Oh come on. He left in 2017 because there were A TON of jobs better than our own that opened up, not because "the jig was up". He went to Florida and immediately took a 4-8 team and won 10 games in his first year, which is very close to what his ceiling would've been at MSU in 2018 even with all the talent he had. There's no scenario where we tell him he's not welcome back for 2018 barring some major off-field scandal. He just took a better job. And with Maryland, while it is not nearly as good of a job as the one he ended up taking, you can make an argument that the Under Armour connection has them in a position where they could take off with the right coach in place, and it's not unreasonable to think they could've made some big money and facilities related promises that had Mullen willing to listen.

And look, by no means do I think Mullen is or was perfect, and I was just as frustrated by some of his job hunting shenanigans as the rest of you. I realize there was A LOT of frustration with him from the 2015 Egg Bowl all the way until he replaced Sirmon with Grantham, myself included. That wasn't a great stretch for him, but to his credit he did a lot to fix it before he left. I wish he had left under different circumstances and the 2017 Egg Bowl will always make me mad when I think about it. But I'm never going to be one of these people that thinks "we would've been better off had Mullen just gone ahead and left". Because we've already seen with the Moorhead transition that you can make a hire that on paper looks like a good one and give him a really good roster from Day 1 and it still can end up being a disaster.

I mean shoot, I'm as excited about Mike Leach as anybody, but I don't think anybody expects him to really do that much better than what Mullen did here, if he does any better at all. Mullen is the only coach in any of our lifetimes who both stayed here long enough to make a real impact and also left on his own terms when the program was doing well. He is the standard to which all coaching hires will be compared to moving forward, unless we strike gold and find someone who drastically outperforms him, though our history tells us that's going to be really hard to do.

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100% agree.....rep given. Nice to see someone who has a broader perspective than some on here.

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Originally Posted by TrapGame

The bromance is strong with this one.

Okay, we gonna agree to disagree.

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You must have missed the part of my post where I gave Mullen some deserved criticism. For whatever reason our fanbase likes to view Mullen in black and white terms only. With our fans he's either the best we've ever had or he's overrated and he should've left sooner and there is no middle ground allowed. I guess that mirrors how the real world is going nowadays.

Mullen absolutely had flaws and those have been discussed ad nauseam for over a decade. At the same time, he did fantastic things for our football program, for the university, and for the City of Starkville. He left us in a much better place than where he found us, and we immediately got worse the day he left. That is indisputable.

Two things can be true at the same time. Don't let a few negative sidenotes detract from the fact that the 2010s was the best decade in our program's history because of Mullen. The 2017 Egg Bowl is still pretty fresh for some but in time I expect more people will get over that and appreciate the good that was done, including what happened after Dak graduated. That said, if the two Moorhead years didn't teach people to be careful what you wish for (remember how some of our fans actually thought we upgraded with that hire?) then we may be having these debates for a while longer.