OT Starkville Schools - Lack of class space

Some of y?all should take a look at the new teacher grading rubric used by administrators to grade teachers...you wouldn?t get halfway thru it before you quit reading it and wonder what the hell much of that has to do with teaching. And there in lies your problem in public education, or at least one of them.

I?ll be starting my 12tg yr in the classroom next week...all but two at my current job at a school very comparable and similar to Starkville. And these are some things I have personally witnessed/experienced numerous times. Young teachers hafta get in and learn their style of teaching, college doesn?t prepare you for that. There is a lot of stress involved in that. Add on top of that the job pressure put on them because they could be let go for nothing more than a teacher cut based on budgets. It?s stressful and they don?t want to deal with it. Principals don?t have the option of allowing too much learning on the job because their heads are on the line every state test and school report card. While the reality of those is much more based on socio economics than it is on teacher/administrator performance.

Put all that together with kids and parents who have no respect for anything or any one combined with the wide range of teacher effectiveness and we are where we are. What?s the fix?? I don?t know but some common sense rooted in reality would be a start...and I?m not talkin about at the district level.

All that said...I enjoy my job and specifically enjoy teaching in my current district. But make no mistake, it takes a good long while of being around and seeing the ins and outs to realize the level of enjoyment that I have reached. Some really good teachers have quit or been run off before realizing it and it has hurt our school 10 fold.

will shoeless joe run for office when he retires? I say so

This thread is very interesting, especially the input from veteran teachers. I'm not a teacher but have several close family members who are. Me, my wife and my kids are all products of public schools. With that bit of background, here are my big-picture thoughts on public education:

1. Public schools are not run for the benefit of the students. Nor are they run for the benefit of the parents or the teachers. Instead, they are operated for the benefit of the administrators, bureaucrats and other paper-pushers who do not add value to the classroom experience. In our area (Atlanta suburbs), the school districts employ at least one non-teacher for every classroom teacher. This is insane.

2. Public education spending per student has generally increased over the years (even on an inflation-adjusted basis), while test scores have remained generally flat. More money is not leading to a better product, leading me to conclude that existing spending should be better allocated in order to produce better results. I'm sure a particular district or particular school could show that this is not the case for them, but this is the national trend. Also, good news for Mississippians: after adjusting for cost of living, Mississippi's public school spending per student is pretty decent (higher than Florida, Texas, Georgia and California). See here: https://www.edweek.org/ew/collection...-by-state.html.

3. Based on points one and two above, I think we could easily eliminate a large number of non-teaching positions and use the savings to increase teacher pay substantially. This would be budget neutral: no tax increases needed.

4. My impression is that we don't have a shortage of teachers overall, but we do have a shortage of GOOD teachers. There is a solid minority of teachers who are hardworking, dedicated and willing to go above and beyond to help their students learn. From what I've seen, about 30-40% of public school teachers fall into this category. The others, to one degree or another, are just collecting a paycheck and counting down the days until spring break or summer vacation. They are not bad people. In fact, they are simply responding to the incentives presented to them: do just enough to get hired again next year but no more. We don't pay teachers for extra effort, and thus we often don't get extra effort.

5. Talent goes where the money is. If we want more good teachers and to motivate the below-average teachers to get better, we need performance pay. Several in this thread seem horrified at the idea, seemingly because whatever metrics are used wouldn't be perfectly fair to all teachers all the time. But principals know who the good teachers are, and superintendents know who the good principals are. In the private sector, management establishes salaries that generally match job performance. An employee might get shortchanged here and there, but over time he's paid what he's worth. We need something like this in the education world. There's no reason why a superstar teacher with five years of experience should make less money than an average or below-average teacher with ten years in the system.

6. We need to provide teachers with more and better tools for classroom discipline. The kids who don't care about learning can misbehave with impunity and make life miserable for both teachers and other students. With our litigious society and our general attitude that every kid is entitled to a free public education no matter how poorly he behaves, I don't have any ready answers here. Perhaps our veteran teachers could weigh in here.

Good conversation. Good public school education starts and ends with parents involvenent.

In class discipline starts at home. In class performance is reached by high at home expectations. Teachers are an authority. Kids that grew up in the 80s forgot this, and now they have not taught their kids to have the respect for the teachers/police/etc authority.

From my experience, kids who parents help with homework, set expectations, and make sure their kids know who the authority is at school those kids get a huge head start from day 1 and hold that throughout their lives.

Of the largest issues with public school today, the vast percentage can be reduced down to poor engagement at home. Not the teachers. Not the adminstrations. Not the funding amount. Not the facility. Truth is, parents are not teaching their kids to act right, be responsible, and teaching an eagerness to learn. All of which have to be fostered throughout their first years, prior to school.

Mississippi has highest paid administrators in the US and the lowest paid Teachers... The state Superintendent is one the highest paid in the US....consolidate school districts and use that money in the classroom... Houston Texas Independent School District has 220,000 Students, 12,000 teachers with a total staff of 30,000 and one Superintendent. Tippah County Mississippi has 2 school districts...

Why not online teachers (classes) to help with this lack of available teachers?

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Originally Posted by Leeshouldveflanked

Mississippi has highest paid administrators in the US and the lowest paid Teachers... The state Superintendent is one the highest paid in the US....consolidate school districts and use that money in the classroom... Houston Texas Independent School District has 220,000 Students, 12,000 teachers with a total staff of 30,000 and one Superintendent. Tippah County Mississippi has 2 school districts...

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Should a superintendent of a 4A school be paid more than the superintendent at a 5A or a 6A school? Research this.........

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Originally Posted by Lord McBuckethead

Good conversation. Good public school education starts and ends with parents involvenent.

In class discipline starts at home. In class performance is reached by high at home expectations. Teachers are an authority. Kids that grew up in the 80s forgot this, and now they have not taught their kids to have the respect for the teachers/police/etc authority.

From my experience, kids who parents help with homework, set expectations, and make sure their kids know who the authority is at school those kids get a huge head start from day 1 and hold that throughout their lives.

Of the largest issues with public school today, the vast percentage can be reduced down to poor engagement at home. Not the teachers. Not the adminstrations. Not the funding amount. Not the facility. Truth is, parents are not teaching their kids to act right, be responsible, and teaching an eagerness to learn. All of which have to be fostered throughout their first years, prior to school.

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The problem is that far too many parents are running between jobs or running themselves ragged on 1 job and simply don't have the time or energy to help with homework and ensure their kids are on top of things. As cost of living skyrockets, parents working low paid jobs need several to make ends meet and the parents with higher paid jobs are expected to be monitoring emails and calls even in their off hours. We've created an imbalanced job market that fails to give people the opportunity to even be good parents by demanding they give everything to their job(s) and if they aren't willing to give everything then it's acceptable for them to be fired "because it's just the economics".

Also, kids should be taught to respect people who earn it, not give it implicitly because of a title or someone's age. I'm not saying to be actively disrespectful of folks, but to teach your kids that a uniform demands respect without earning it is how we get into situations like the Catholic Church covering up for priests molesting children.

We don’t need 156 Superintendents with 156 District offices with 156 District Office support staffs that are the Superintendents relatives, buddies etc...we need 10.

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Originally Posted by Leeshouldveflanked

We don’t need 156 Superintendents with 156 District offices with 156 District Office support staffs that are the Superintendents relatives, buddies etc...we need 10.

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We could solve a lot of issues in the state by consolidating it about 35 counties and school districts.

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Originally Posted by WinningIsRelentless

We could solve a lot of issues in the state by consolidating it about 35 counties and school districts.

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You don't want to figure that nasty out. Each county should have its own system but the litigation you might get into having districts that run across county lines potentially is nasty.

Best to keep things in county due to different tax structures for different counties potentially going to buildings that aren't even in the county.

You at a minimum need one school district per county. But I would definitely agree MS needs to consolidate. And some of y'all may not agree with this but there are entirely too many private schools in MS. Way too many. If MS wants to save money they are going to have to consolidate some academies with public schools. Part of the issue is administrative costs but think about secretarial costs and things like that. One school of 300 and a school of 200 has 2 bookkeepers. 2 athletic directors. 2 registrars. 2 secretaries. List goes on and on. If you consolidate into one school of 500, all of those decrease to 1 person. That's over $100,000 per year right off the bat.

So yes central office personnel is an issue, but the school level is where you will see the biggest difference. Those two schools will also both need an assistant principal. Combine those two schools and they still only qualify for funding for 1 assistant principal. Boom there's $65,000 per year in salary and another $25,000-$35,000 per year in benefits.

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Originally Posted by MetEdDawg

You don't want to figure that nasty out. Each county should have its own system but the litigation you might get into having districts that run across county lines potentially is nasty.

Best to keep things in county due to different tax structures for different counties potentially going to buildings that aren't even in the county.

You at a minimum need one school district per county. But I would definitely agree MS needs to consolidate. And some of y'all may not agree with this but there are entirely too many private schools in MS. Way too many. If MS wants to save money they are going to have to consolidate some academies with public schools. Part of the issue is administrative costs but think about secretarial costs and things like that. One school of 300 and a school of 200 has 2 bookkeepers. 2 athletic directors. 2 registrars. 2 secretaries. List goes on and on. If you consolidate into one school of 500, all of those decrease to 1 person. That's over $100,000 per year right off the bat.

So yes central office personnel is an issue, but the school level is where you will see the biggest difference. Those two schools will also both need an assistant principal. Combine those two schools and they still only qualify for funding for 1 assistant principal. Boom there's $65,000 per year in salary and another $25,000-$35,000 per year in benefits.

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Well academies are not going to join public schools. Their sole purpose is so rich people do not have to send their kids to school with poor people. I am not sure, but the first reason so many popped up in Mississippi, segregation.....right?

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Originally Posted by Leeshouldveflanked

We don’t need 156 Superintendents with 156 District offices with 156 District Office support staffs that are the Superintendents relatives, buddies etc...we need 10.

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Originally Posted by MetEdDawg

You don't want to figure that nasty out. Each county should have its own system but the litigation you might get into having districts that run across county lines potentially is nasty.

Best to keep things in county due to different tax structures for different counties potentially going to buildings that aren't even in the county.

You at a minimum need one school district per county. But I would definitely agree MS needs to consolidate. And some of y'all may not agree with this but there are entirely too many private schools in MS. Way too many. If MS wants to save money they are going to have to consolidate some academies with public schools. Part of the issue is administrative costs but think about secretarial costs and things like that. One school of 300 and a school of 200 has 2 bookkeepers. 2 athletic directors. 2 registrars. 2 secretaries. List goes on and on. If you consolidate into one school of 500, all of those decrease to 1 person. That's over $100,000 per year right off the bat.

So yes central office personnel is an issue, but the school level is where you will see the biggest difference. Those two schools will also both need an assistant principal. Combine those two schools and they still only qualify for funding for 1 assistant principal. Boom there's $65,000 per year in salary and another $25,000-$35,000 per year in benefits.

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You aren?t following what I?m saying. I?m saying it?s no reason for a state of 2.99MM and decreasing to have 82 counties and ever how many school districts. Do away with about 50 counties and more school districts and then the money goes a lot further. Just think about the savings we would create.

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Originally Posted by WinningIsRelentless

You aren?t following what I?m saying. I?m saying it?s no reason for a state of 2.99MM and decreasing to have 82 counties and ever how many school districts. Do away with about 50 counties and more school districts and then the money goes a lot further. Just think about the savings we would create.

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I could get on board with that.

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Originally Posted by Leeshouldveflanked

We don’t need 156 Superintendents with 156 District offices with 156 District Office support staffs that are the Superintendents relatives, buddies etc...we need 10.

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10?? So STARKVILLE, COLUMBUS , West Point etc etc should be run by one person?? No.

This isn't just a teaching problem. It's a problem with a lot of public service positions. People who go into teaching, law enforcement, firefighting etc don't do it for money. Yes we would all loved a bigger paycheck but how political everything has gotten over the last 5-10 years has driven many away. I left Law Enforcement because you don't have support from your Administration or the general public anymore. Then teachers have to deal with unruly kids and when teachers punish them, you have parents who don't want to go along with the teacher's recommendation and try to fight the punishment.

In the end throwing more money into education or paying teachers a 1000 dollars more a year is not going to solve teacher shortage. You have to change philosophy of classroom management.

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Originally Posted by Lord McBuckethead

Well academies are not going to join public schools. Their sole purpose is so rich people do not have to send their kids to school with poor people. I am not sure, but the first reason so many popped up in Mississippi, segregation.....right?

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I can only speak for myself, but I was in the public school system through the 5th grade, and I was two years behind when my parents sent me to a private school. Of course, I had been acing everything at the public school. My public school teacher was actually the one who suggested to my parents that they put me in a private school if possible. My parents had to get me private tutors for two years to catch up.

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Originally Posted by Fader21

This isn't just a teaching problem. It's a problem with a lot of public service positions. People who go into teaching, law enforcement, firefighting etc don't do it for money. Yes we would all loved a bigger paycheck but how political everything has gotten over the last 5-10 years has driven many away. I left Law Enforcement because you don't have support from your Administration or the general public anymore. Then teachers have to deal with unruly kids and when teachers punish them, you have parents who don't want to go along with the teacher's recommendation and try to fight the punishment.

In the end throwing more money into education or paying teachers a 1000 dollars more a year is not going to solve teacher shortage. You have to change philosophy of classroom management.

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Agreed. You have to change the philosophy of the classroom and society.

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Originally Posted by WinningIsRelentless

You aren?t following what I?m saying. I?m saying it?s no reason for a state of 2.99MM and decreasing to have 82 counties and ever how many school districts. Do away with about 50 counties and more school districts and then the money goes a lot further. Just think about the savings we would create.

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This, this, 1000 times this. Arizona has 7.1 million people and 15 counties. 82 counties in Mississippi, with a population of less than 3 million, is very wasteful. There's no longer a need to have the county seat be no further away than one day's ride on a horse. Consolidating down to 10 or 12 counties (and a like number of school districts, county coroners, etc.) would save massive amounts of taxpayer money that could be better spent elsewhere.

I agree but MS ain't goin to eliminate any county seays.