#16 in CFP poll

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BigEasyDawg

Speaking of which....How about those Rockets!?

---

Been a great season. I'll be pleasantly surprised if we make it to next weekend though

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg

He's also missing the big picture that the SEC - despite all the teams who beat us being "trash" and the teams we beat being "paper tigers" - is hands down recognized as the most difficult league with the most talent. And that talent spreads pretty deep throughout the league. Any one of Bama, UGA, LSU, KY, UF, MSU, Auburn, or A&M would be at worst a 1 loss team in any other conference in the country right now. And the CFP committee realizes that.

What that depth of talent leads to is that right now - outside of Bama - on any given Saturday, any SEC team can lose in conference play. It's why LSU can look like "trash" against UF (and to a degree against MSU) and then blow the doors off of UGA. It's why you can't walk into Lexington and just think you are going to win because you beat Kentucky by 30 last year. It's why I wouldn't be shocked at all to see LSU lose to Arkansas this weekend, or see Ole Miss beat A&M this weekend and then lose to Vandy the next.

And, yes, I'm disappointed that we lost those 3 games that were winnable games. I'm disappointed that we got caught in transition year unexpectedly. I'm disappointed that the known deficiencies that we have (QB consistency, OL pass blocking, WR talent) had to take a step back in learning an entirely new system, instead of being able to progress in a system they knew.

But, the fact that after all of this the people who define football respect in this country through their poll still have us at #16 helps me understand that we have climbed a huge, HUGE, hurdle in public perception about where MSU is as a program and where we are in the pecking order of the SEC. Has there ever been a 3 loss MSU team given this much respect at this point in the season? Have we ever been able to say "after we take that 4th loss at Bama we will probably still be ranked"? No. Even with out best player in history, they dropped us like a bad habit after 2 losses and wrote us off as "same old MSU". We take care of business the rest of this season, and we will be set up to begin to take the next step.

---

Well said and great point about how MSU is perceived now. Of course, back in the 1990's I think Jackie hurt our perception a little bit because the media and NCAA did not like him. I remember 1999 and it almost seemed like the media hated that we kept winning. The perception aspect is where the bowl streak has helped us immensely. People in the CFB industry are now used to us being in not only bowls- but NYD bowls in Florida. And now we are doing it with multiple different coaches- which means it isn't a situation where we have to have an elite coach to win 6-8 games a year.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by basedog

Maybe, maybe not. You predicted the future is just wrong with a new coach. Time will tell as Joe and his staff may be much better next year.

---

This. There is a reason why they play the games. Sometimes it works out- personally I remember expecting 1998 and 2014 to be great seasons and they were. Sometimes it doesn't- this year. And sometimes we get surprised- I remember expecting 1999 to be a down year and we actually won more games than we did in 1998 with a team that IMO was less talented than the 1998 team.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Johnson85

Dan never did anything like this year. We were more talented than 10 teams on our schedule and we as talented as an 11th.

Had we had "normal" growing pains, we'd be ten win team this year just because our schedule set up so perfectly. Instead we shit the bed. Even if it was more do to the shortcomings of our players rather than their coaching, it was still a failure on their part to not get a more simplified plan in place, which is all that would have been necessary to beat UK or UF.

That said, it's past and no sense in not enjoying a still pretty good season. And the bedshitting doesn't mean Moorhead won't be good long term. But there's also no sense in pretending it wasn't a bedshitting. We shit the bed in a season where the stars were aligned for us (other than the coaching change) in a way that they probably won't be again until after Saban is gone. It is what it is.

---

I disagree. 2015 with our best player in school history immediately comes to mind. Should have beaten LSU that year, lost on the road to A&M without Manziel, had the deer in a headlights special against Alabama including running Holloway up the middle against Saban, and the Egg Bowl where Dan checked out and even after the other three losses had the chance to go to the Sugar Bowl and pretty much blew it. Went from the Sugar Bowl to the Belk Bowl. You could say the same thing about last year too. 2011 was a step back from 2010 and we actually had to win the Egg Bowl that year to go to a bowl.

The biggest difference is the reason for bedshitting this year is mainly due to transition from one staff to another plus some glaring deficiencies on offense that appear to have taken about half the season to correct. And the fact that we have improved at QB, OL, and WR is something I view as a positive. Whereas with Dan the bedshitting was due to his selfishness and being hardheaded. And if things play out the way they are projected both will end up with 8 win seasons and a nice bowl.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg

All teams that beat us are trash because I said so. Now I'm going to post it 10,000 times for emphasis. - msstate7

---

Yep, he'll bleed a negative take to death. 46,000 posts... that's posting 31 times a day, EVERY DAY, for four straight years! He's such a tool.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg

He's also missing the big picture that the SEC - despite all the teams who beat us being "trash" and the teams we beat being "paper tigers" - is hands down recognized as the most difficult league with the most talent. And that talent spreads pretty deep throughout the league. Any one of Bama, UGA, LSU, KY, UF, MSU, Auburn, or A&M would be at worst a 1 loss team in any other conference in the country right now. And the CFP committee realizes that.

What that depth of talent leads to is that right now - outside of Bama - on any given Saturday, any SEC team can lose in conference play. It's why LSU can look like "trash" against UF (and to a degree against MSU) and then blow the doors off of UGA. It's why you can't walk into Lexington and just think you are going to win because you beat Kentucky by 30 last year. It's why I wouldn't be shocked at all to see LSU lose to Arkansas this weekend, or see Ole Miss beat A&M this weekend and then lose to Vandy the next.

And, yes, I'm disappointed that we lost those 3 games that were winnable games. I'm disappointed that we got caught in transition year unexpectedly. I'm disappointed that the known deficiencies that we have (QB consistency, OL pass blocking, WR talent) had to take a step back in learning an entirely new system, instead of being able to progress in a system they knew.

But, the fact that after all of this the people who define football respect in this country through their poll still have us at #16 helps me understand that we have climbed a huge, HUGE, hurdle in public perception about where MSU is as a program and where we are in the pecking order of the SEC. Has there ever been a 3 loss MSU team given this much respect at this point in the season? Have we ever been able to say "after we take that 4th loss at Bama we will probably still be ranked"? No. Even with out best player in history, they dropped us like a bad habit after 2 losses and wrote us off as "same old MSU". We take care of business the rest of this season, and we will be set up to begin to take the next step.

---

I approve this message. Thanks for the lengthy but excellent explanation that is being read by several but understood by few. Rep given.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by msstate7

They aren't trash. They just aren't as good as us. We should've beat Kentucky and Florida. Our coach crapped the bed

---

So since the team as a whole consists of players and coaches together to make the team and our coach crapped the bed. Those teams proved they were better than us this year.

If you want to argue with that then you are simply in denial. Bottomline.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by StateDawg44

So since the team as a whole consists of players and coaches together to make the team and our coach crapped the bed. Those teams proved they were better than us this year.

If you want to argue with that then you are simply in denial. Bottomline.

---

Best team always wins... that's a solid take. Who wouldn't argue om was better than bama those 2 years they won, USA was better than us in 2016, bucs better than saints this year, etc x 10000?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Todd4State

I disagree. 2015 with our best player in school history immediately comes to mind. Should have beaten LSU that year, lost on the road to A&M without Manziel, had the deer in a headlights special against Alabama including running Holloway up the middle against Saban, and the Egg Bowl where Dan checked out and even after the other three losses had the chance to go to the Sugar Bowl and pretty much blew it. Went from the Sugar Bowl to the Belk Bowl. You could say the same thing about last year too. 2011 was a step back from 2010 and we actually had to win the Egg Bowl that year to go to a bowl.

---

We had talent issues in 2015, particularly on the offensive line. We lost at A&M, who won 8 games with their only losses versus Bama and Auburn and at LSU and Ole Miss. The LSU game was bad, but they won 9 games that year; we didn't just out talent them. We lost to Bama and Ole Miss. That was certainly an underachieving year by Dan, but we didn't shit the bed against two teams we were more talented than. We missed an opportunity versus LSU and then lost to an A&M team and Ole Miss team that were roughly as talented as we were. We arguably shit the bed bigger in 2014 than 2015.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Todd4State

The biggest difference is the reason for bedshitting this year is mainly due to transition from one staff to another plus some glaring deficiencies on offense that appear to have taken about half the season to correct. And the fact that we have improved at QB, OL, and WR is something I view as a positive. Whereas with Dan the bedshitting was due to his selfishness and being hardheaded. And if things play out the way they are projected both will end up with 8 win seasons and a nice bowl.

---

??? We went way backwards at QB and OL and somewhat backwards at WR, before getting better. I mean us getting better again is certainly preferable to going backwards and continuing to suck, and it's understandable that we'd take a step backwards learning a new offense (not sure that much of a step is understandable though), but we are still at best where we ended up last year. I actually doubt we're that good though and suspect we'd still get shut down by LSU if we played them again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Johnson85

We had talent issues in 2015, particularly on the offensive line. We lost at A&M, who won 8 games with their only losses versus Bama and Auburn and at LSU and Ole Miss. The LSU game was bad, but they won 9 games that year; we didn't just out talent them. We lost to Bama and Ole Miss. That was certainly an underachieving year by Dan, but we didn't shit the bed against two teams we were more talented than. We missed an opportunity versus LSU and then lost to an A&M team and Ole Miss team that were roughly as talented as we were. We arguably shit the bed bigger in 2014 than 2015.



??? We went way backwards at QB and OL and somewhat backwards at WR, before getting better. I mean us getting better again is certainly preferable to going backwards and continuing to suck, and it's understandable that we'd take a step backwards learning a new offense (not sure that much of a step is understandable though), but we are still at best where we ended up last year. I actually doubt we're that good though and suspect we'd still get shut down by LSU if we played them again.

---

You mention 2014 as well and that's my point- there were plenty of years where we underachieved under Dan.

You also pointed out the issues we had in 2015- we knew coming into the year that there would be questions about Fitzgerald's accuracy, how he would come back, and also we were hoping Guidry would be the exception to the rule with the JUCO 6 game learning curve.

I can tolerate taking a step or two back with a new offense install as long as we are tangibly improving. If we were still having issues in year three- then there is obviously a problem.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Todd4State

You mention 2014 as well and that's my point- there were plenty of years where we underachieved under Dan.

You also pointed out the issues we had in 2015- we knew coming into the year that there would be questions about Fitzgerald's accuracy, how he would come back, and also we were hoping Guidry would be the exception to the rule with the JUCO 6 game learning curve.

I can tolerate taking a step or two back with a new offense install as long as we are tangibly improving. If we were still having issues in year three- then there is obviously a problem.

---

What's funny is that everyone bashes our 2015 team, but that team was beating OM away from being in the Sugar Bowl

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Todd4State

You mention 2014 as well and that's my point- there were plenty of years where we underachieved under Dan.

---

And my point was we didn't underachieve like this. 2014 is the only year we were set up like this and the only game Dan laid an egg in was Ole Miss. And he also had to deal with losing our only two competent free safeties by the end of the first series.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Todd4State

You also pointed out the issues we had in 2015- we knew coming into the year that there would be questions about Fitzgerald's accuracy, how he would come back, and also we were hoping Guidry would be the exception to the rule with the JUCO 6 game learning curve.

I can tolerate taking a step or two back with a new offense install as long as we are tangibly improving. If we were still having issues in year three- then there is obviously a problem.

---

We didn't just take a step or two back. We turned to shit. We have any competence against Florida or UK and we win. And we are tangibly improving, but I'm not sure we're back to where we were last year.

Doesn't really matter now. We shit the bed and it's done.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

What's funny is that everyone bashes our 2015 team, but that team was beating OM away from being in the Sugar Bowl

---

That team was really disappointing to me and most of it was because of Dan. Play Rankin at OT, at least platoon Aeris at RB, sit Zach Jackson, and rotate Peters/McLaurin more in at safety and I think that team wins at least 10 games.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Johnson85

And my point was we didn't underachieve like this. 2014 is the only year we were set up like this and the only game Dan laid an egg in was Ole Miss. And he also had to deal with losing our only two competent free safeties by the end of the first series.



We didn't just take a step or two back. We turned to shit. We have any competence against Florida or UK and we win. And we are tangibly improving, but I'm not sure we're back to where we were last year.

Doesn't really matter now. We shit the bed and it's done.

---

It all goes back to hiring an OC, and assuming there would be no transition bumps.

Things could be worse. In an alternate universe there could be bumps with having the 5th DC in 5 years or whatever it's been. Looks like Joe made a good hire there. Keep Joe and Shoop together a few years and I could see them making some waves.

It's pretty cool to be ranked this high with 3 losses. We've edged up a little in the perception of the program.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DancingRabbit

It all goes back to hiring an OC, and assuming there would be no transition bumps.

Things could be worse. In an alternate universe there could be bumps with having the 5th DC in 5 years or whatever it's been. Looks like Joe made a good hire there. Keep Joe and Shoop together a few years and I could see them making some waves.

It's pretty cool to be ranked this high with 3 losses. We've edged up a little in the perception of the program.

---

And if we lose tomorrow we will be a four lose ranked team.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jack Lambert

And if we lose tomorrow we will be a four lose ranked team.

---

We will. It'll be really hard to move up any after tomorrow though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by msstate7

We will. It'll be really hard to move up any after tomorrow though.

---

It's possible but we have to win out and get some people in front of us to lose. Hell last year we did not drop one bit after the Bama lose.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jack Lambert

And if we lose tomorrow we will be a four lose ranked team.

---

If we were to get blown out I'm not sure we would be ranked. Depends to a degree how Kentucky, Florida, and LSU do. Keep it reasonably close and we should be OK.

Win and we'll be the only 3-loss team ever in the playoffs. **