Pay Them or Free Them

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Originally Posted by TimberBeast

If it's that terrible, why do they do it?

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Lot of them have no other way to get into college and are the first in their family to do so.

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Originally Posted by DudyDawg

To be honest I'm not sure where I fall on this debate, but I'm sure about one thing: those arguing that they are being paid by getting an education don't understand how much of a farce that is. They don't have time for an actual education.

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No, you're dead wrong. I've got two kids playing/played D1 ball and they both have no issues with their education, nor the quality of education. One is making a hell of a lot more money than me at 25 years old and the other is almost done in just over 3 years of college. Yes, there's a lot of time spent on athletics, probably close to 40 hours a week. But to say they can't get a good education is bullshit.

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Originally Posted by DudyDawg

No free time.
"Travel" is sitting in a hotel waiting to play for 90% of the time.
"Tutors" doing their homework so they can stay eligible (not learning shit)
The extremely good medical care is there to treat issues that arise BECAUSE of the athletes. The care wouldn't be a benefit if they didn't need it, and they wouldn't need it if they weren't athletes.

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This might be the case for some but I had classes with athletes and they worked hard. Some might take advantage of the system and have tutors do their work for them but that is the students fault. I agree that they should get a stipend which they do now but making them employees would essentially kill college sports except football and basketball. It might not be completely fair to look at it that way but that is accurate. Football and basketball players want to get paid then soccer and wrestling students will lose their sports at the college level which is capitalism at its finest. MSU baseball would also be gone because 90% of the college programs lose money. There would be no one to play so I guess we wouldn't have to worry about losing midweek games.

If the athletes are paid where does it stop? Will the large high schools that have televised games have to pay players?
I know that seems a bit extreme for me to ask, but if the NCAA allows players to be paid the attendance will drop due to rising cost of tickets. Fans will begin looking to get their football fix watching high school ball and may open another box of worms.

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Originally Posted by Cooterpoot

No, you're dead wrong. I've got two kids playing/played D1 ball and they both have no issues with their education, nor the quality of education. One is making a hell of a lot more money than me at 25 years old and the other is almost done in just over 3 years of college. Yes, there's a lot of time spent on athletics, probably close to 40 hours a week. But to say they can't get a good education is bullshit.

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What sport did they play?

That's great for them, but that is more an exception than the norm. Especially in football/basketball.

ETA- not to mention a lot of guys can't pursue the major they want to because classes conflict with their athletic schedules.

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Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe

They essentially are on an internship for their entire 4 years. They work their ass off but how much is it worth to get a chance at the NFL or NBA? The exposure is worth a lot and that doesn't include the free education, books, clothes, housing, food, trainer, nutritionist, tutoring, and connections they make that normal students don't make. People talk about profit sharing but how many people show up no matter who the starting QB is. Bama doesn't stop selling out when Heisman trophy winner Derrick Henry graduated.

People say it is un-American when it is actually free market. The NCAA and the Universities have the product and the student athletes are basically employees that get paid in education, living expenses, and the possibility of promotion to the professional leagues. Similar to people on Wall Street getting coffee for the traders until they are finally allowed to trade. They don't get paid shit for a while until they have "paid their dues".

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Exactly. And it flat out pisses me off to hear folks saying that free tuition, room / board, and full cost of attendance isn't enough. How many people out there carrying 5 or 6 figure student loan debt into their 40's would have killed for an opportunity like that? Thats not even considering the earnings potential associated with a college degree. Only about 5% of student athletes (at most) will ever play professionally at any level, so that goes a long way.

You want money? Get your ass to work instead of going to college to play a sport. Athletes are so damn pampered. I'm sick and tired of hearing about how tough they have it. I can promise you none of these athletes are in want. They have no bills, get top notch medical treatment, amazing food, and a 100,000 worth of college education.

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Originally Posted by DudyDawg

Lot of them have no other way to get into college and are the first in their family to do so.

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If you're talking about money, they can get student loans like the vast majority of other students in college. If you're talking about grades, if they don't have the grades they shouldn't be there in the first place regardless of sports.

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Originally Posted by BayouDawg

You want money? Get your ass to work instead of going to college to play a sport. Athletes are so damn pampered. I'm sick and tired of hearing about how tough they have it. I can promise you none of these athletes are in want. They have no bills, get top notch medical treatment, amazing food, and a 100,000 worth of college education.

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I don't know, there have been quite a few that come out publicly saying they go to bed hungry because they don't have the means to pay for food outside of their meal plan.

My son came up with something on a co-op that made the company a LOT of money. He got his regular small co-op salary (which doesn't add up to what college athletes get) and a nice entry on his resume. We aren't complaining, we are thrilled he got the chance to get the experience for when he enters the job market for real. The complaints about college athlete not being paid are CRAP. It's the way the real world works.

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Originally Posted by DudyDawg

ETA- not to mention a lot of guys can't pursue the major they want to because classes conflict with their athletic schedules.

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Yea, I call bullshit on that. A lot of guys may not be able to handle the demands of both a tough major and athletics, but they can pursue any major that they want to.

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Originally Posted by sandwolf

Yea, I call bullshit on that. A lot of guys may not be able to handle the demands of both a tough major and athletics, but they can pursue any major that they want to.

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It's not bullshit. It happens. Players can't pursue a major because of time conflicts with class and practice.

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Originally Posted by DudyDawg

It's not bullshit. It happens. Players can't pursue a major because of time conflicts with class and practice.

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If the classes for that major are only offered during practice times, they are excused from practice. Coaches can't make them show up if it threatens their eligibility. Thats why it falls on the coaches to schedule practices around class schedules. Not the other way around.

It's called "amateur sports" for a reason. They have professional and amateur, this is amateur. If they start paying them, it becomes professional. Unions, salary negotiations, trades, caps, etc. They already have that - it's called the NFL and it sucks. Ratings go down every year. If anything, just get rid of the rules about when you can declare yourself for the NFL. Go straight out of high school if you want. Let the NFL create and manage their own developmental league like the D League. Let players declare and test the waters and return, just like in NCAAB. There are many fixes that do not involve scrapping collegiate amateur athletics and turning them into professional sports by paying them.

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Originally Posted by HSVDawg

Exactly. And it flat out pisses me off to hear folks saying that free tuition, room / board, and full cost of attendance isn't enough. How many people out there carrying 5 or 6 figure student loan debt into their 40's would have killed for an opportunity like that? Thats not even considering the earnings potential associated with a college degree. Only about 5% of student athletes (at most) will ever play professionally at any level, so that goes a long way.

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https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ie_Sanders.jpg

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Originally Posted by Quaoarsking

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ie_Sanders.jpg

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Attachment 2734

ETA - tried to insert a photo of Hugo Chavez

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Originally Posted by DudyDawg

I don't know, there have been quite a few that come out publicly saying they go to bed hungry because they don't have the means to pay for food outside of their meal plan.

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That's complete bs. Anybody with sense knows that's not true. Maybe he spent all his allowance money on dope.

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Originally Posted by BayouDawg

That's complete bs. Anybody with sense knows that's not true. Maybe he spent all his allowance money on dope.

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Yeah I'm sure that's more likely

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Originally Posted by DudyDawg

Yeah I'm sure that's more likely

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I'd put money on it.

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Originally Posted by DudyDawg

It's not bullshit. It happens. Players can't pursue a major because of time conflicts with class and practice.

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If it happens, its because the student athlete allows it to happen. Its an excuse. You can get any undergraduate degree you want and play sports. I know because my nephew played D1 football (not for MSU, but for a team that beat us this year), and was taking Mechanical Engineering classes all the while. The trick is you work your fall schedule light, and load up on coursework in the Spring and Summer.