The "perception" that we are trending down

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Originally Posted by fishwater99

We should have won 10 games last year.. I am not saying our schedule is not tougher..

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But we didn't because of defense was ****ing terrible down the stretch. Which is why alot of the media isn't real high on us...hell, I'm skeptical as shit right now. We have a new DC, 2 new key position coaches and lost two excellent CB's. Can we be better? Absolutely, but there's no guarantee...we will know very soon tho

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Originally Posted by fishwater99

We should have won 10 games last year.. I am not saying our schedule is not tougher..

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Should have? Really, what is that based on? Are you saying we had better players than 10 other teams? Better coaches? We have more money and better facilities? We are a better program?

I really just don't know. We are what we were last year, end of story. We lost to who we should have lost to with probably the exception of Northwestern because Tyler played awful. Bama and LSU are always going to beat us if they bring their A game unless something changes and it goes back to the late 90s. A&M had a dynamic quarterback and better coaching. OM you could certainly say we had better players even though they "out-recruited" us in many classes - but they had a lot of attrition. Still, our coaching and leadership didn't get up for that game like they should have.

Auburn out-recruits us every year and they are a top 15 program in the country. How should we have beaten them? We stomped Arkansas. They had as many preseason All-SEC players as Bama did last year. Tennessee had better recruiting classes and all kinds of better stuff (supposedly) than we do.

I just don't know that we should be doing this or that in any year. We had deadwood on the coaching staff - they were part of the team and a reason for our struggles. But other teams have coaching problems too. If you amass all the talent in the SEC and they all live up to their potential, then combine it with money and tradition, we are going 6-6 every year at best. I don't know what should is.

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Originally Posted by bocfarm

But we didn't because of defense was ****ing terrible down the stretch. Which is why alot of the media isn't real high on us...hell, I'm skeptical as shit right now. We have a new DC, 2 new key position coaches and lost two excellent CB's. Can we be better? Absolutely, but there's no guarantee...we will know very soon tho

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I agree, we will see soon enough if Wilson was really the problem with our defense. We had two NFL corners, but we played zone..

Prognosticators don't give a shit about what players are up for which awards; they will look at this year's schedule, consider how we've matched up with those teams in the past, evaluate any differences in the teams since the last season, and make a prediction. Not everyone follows MSU football as intimately as we do and understands the team's struggles and the adjustments that we are allegedly making to fix them.

I agree with the spirit of your post-- we are not trending down like people seem to think, but players being considered for awards doesn't mean much to bloggers/writers. It also doesn't take into consideration coaching staff's ability. Shitty coaches can waste great talent just like we saw last year.

Until we find a way to put it all together and beat a team or two we will be perceived as pretenders. At the very least, we have to consistently keep it close with the big boys. Remember Arkansas 2010? We gave them all they could handle, and I don't remember anyone calling us a joke or pretender after that.

So here's the perception the casual fan has from last season: "Oh yeah, State. Whatever. They beat up the shitty teams but couldn't hang with the big boys. They even got dominated by their 6-6 in state rival and then lost their bowl game. Yeah they aren't that good."

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Originally Posted by fishwater99

So we have peaked under Mullen.
Why shouldn't we be better than last year? TR is a senior and is the best QB in MSU history...

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TR is the best QB in MSU history despite Coach's love affair with Dak and running QBs.

I wasn't suggesting that we've peaked. Just saying that I'm usually 1, maybe 2 W's off at the most with the preseason prediction and this is the first year where I could see us landing anywhere between 5-7 wins. To me, tht means we're a five win team at minimum and an 8 win team at max. The excitement by some is great, and I'm usually Mr. Optimism, but I think we're all going to be drastically disappointed if we're expecting an 8+ win season.

As I've said before, Strick set this schedule up for failure IMO... and I think it has a lot to do with forcing a move on our coaching staff.

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Originally Posted by Political Hack

As I've said before, Strick set this schedule up for failure IMO... and I think it has a lot to do with forcing a move on our coaching staff.

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If y'all think OSU is tough, wait till the SEC expands to 9 games. The rich will get richer, the poor will get poorer. Alabama will have another game to overcome any one loss while low tier teams will struggle to make bowl games.

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Originally Posted by The Croom Diaries

I don't buy this at all.

Let's take the last two years.

2011 - going into the season we knew Auburn, Kentucky and Ole Miss would all be trending down while UGA, USC and UPig would be trending up and Bama and LSU are juggernauts. General thought was we had an 8-9 win team. What we didn't know was that we'd lose to Auburn like we did and play horribly against Georgia.

2012 - going into the season we knew Arkansas and UK were trending down, possibly Tennessee. Auburn and A&M were expected to be roughly the same, slightly up (because that was the only place to go) for OM. Bama and LSU are juggernauts. General thought was 8-9 wins. We got that. What we didn't know is how much better A&M and OM would be than everyone thought. But by the same token how bad Auburn and Ark would be.

2013 - going into the season we know no one on our schedule is trending down. Arkansas, Auburn, Ole Miss, Kentucky all up. South Carolina and A&M are expected to possibly be even better. Bama and LSU are juggernauts. On top of all that we add Oklahoma State - a high level BCS opponent we haven't had in the last few years. What's more is we are facing a MAC team expected to win their division and an always scrappy Sun Belt team. General thought is 5-6 wins, 7 if you're a little more optimistic like myself and others on this board. But the "schedule is so tough this year" is a valid argument. We really could be better just not have as good of a record. Every year in the SEC is tough, but not all schedules are created equal. Just ask South Carolina who has beaten UGA the last 3 years but only won the East once because they had to play a really good Arkansas team in 2011 and LSU in 2012 while Georgia breezed through the easiest road in the conference both years.

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No way is our schedule as tough every year as it will be THIS year. The only schedule Mullen has had to deal with as tough as this was in 2009 where we finished 5-7 and had GT and Houston OOC and also had to play a #1 FL team from the SEC East. If we go 6-6 this year it will be a much better 6-6 than the one in 2011.

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Originally Posted by Political Hack

TR is the best QB in MSU history despite Coach's love affair with Dak and running QBs.
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Based on what? There is more to playing QB than amassing passing yards. If passing yards were the end all for QB's- Texas Tech would have the best QB's in NCAA history.

Our offense was better in 2010 with a healthy Chris Relf than it was in 2012 with a healthy Tyler Russell. That's a fact.

In our 5 losses this year- Russell threw 5 TD's and 9 INT's....Prescott 3 TD's 0 INT's

Tyler has work to do this year if he wants to be the best QB in school history- wins, total offense, 3rd down conversions, turnovers, points scored....they all play a part in deciding where a QB ranks

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Originally Posted by Coach34

Based on what? There is more to playing QB than amassing passing yards. If passing yards were the end all for QB's- Texas Tech would have the best QB's in NCAA history.

Our offense was better in 2010 with a healthy Chris Relf than it was in 2012 with a healthy Tyler Russell. That's a fact.

In our 5 losses this year- Russell threw 5 TD's and 9 INT's....Prescott 3 TD's 0 INT's

Tyler has work to do this year if he wants to be the best QB in school history- wins, total offense, 3rd down conversions, turnovers, points scored....they all play a part in deciding where a QB ranks

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You're cooking those stats in the losses a little bit there, c'mon now.

I'm not so sure the 2010 offense was greater than the 2012 offense to the point of it being a fact. Basically we just traded Chris Relf's rushing yardage for passing yardage. 2010 did have 20 more yards per game but they both averaged 3.6 touchdowns per game. I think the real difference between those teams was the defense. Not only were they not as good in '12 as '10 but they put our offense in holes that didn't allow us to use the entire playbook. The offense will have opportunity to improve just for the mere fact that the defense will be better.

You are right that currently Tyler Russell is the best passing quarterback in MSU history. But his career isn't over and he is well within the grasp of becoming the greatest QB ever without question.

With regards to the "perception" aspect of this thread, one of the few things OM has always been better than us at is "crafting" a perception of themselves nationally. I can't say I understand it, because they have only rarely over the last 20 years or so been any better than us in any of the top three sports. While it's true that nothing can change perception like consistent winning, it appears to me that we need to do a better job as an institution of crafting an image for ourselves. The "Our State" campaign was a good one and helped recruiting, but it's 3-4 years old now and nobody outside of our state really gave a shit about it. It's time now for a pub campaign that casts a broader net and involves more selling of the "sizzle".

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Originally Posted by Bullmutt

With regards to the "perception" aspect of this thread, one of the few things OM has always been better than us at is "crafting" a perception of themselves nationally. I can't say I understand it, because they have only rarely over the last 20 years or so been any better than us in any of the top three sports. While it's true that nothing can change perception like consistent winning, it appears to me that we need to do a better job as an institution of crafting an image for ourselves. The "Our State" campaign was a good one and helped recruiting, but it's 3-4 years old now and nobody outside of our state really gave a shit about it. It's time now for a pub campaign that casts a broader net and involves more selling of the "sizzle".

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I can agree with you there. People may think I'm stupid but I really hate using "Miss. State". I think we need to get rid of using 'Miss' because it identifies with Ole Miss. That is their name and what they are known for. I think our administration has done a good job of only using 'Mississippi State' spelled out in full on the field and jerseys as well as referring to the school when speaking about it. That is one small step in the right direction. One of the main problems is people outside the state have a hard time differentiating between the two schools so we need to do whatever we can to distance ourselves from them.

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Originally Posted by The Croom Diaries

I can agree with you there. People may think I'm stupid but I really hate using "Miss. State". I think we need to get rid of using 'Miss' because it identifies with Ole Miss. That is their name and what they are known for. I think our administration has done a good job of only using 'Mississippi State' spelled out in full on the field and jerseys as well as referring to the school when speaking about it. That is one small step in the right direction. One of the main problems is people outside the state have a hard time differentiating between the two schools so we need to do whatever we can to distance ourselves from them.

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Who is this Mississippi State you speak of, I thought we were MState?

The only blemishes on TR's record are a loss to OM and an ugly bowl game. That's it. Other than that, you couldn't ask for more. He's the highest rated passer in the history of the University, has the lowest INT rating, 2nd in pass completion %, and will-barring injury--leave as State's all time yardage leader in passing.

we don't run the wishbone. Tyler Russell is the best QB we've ever had. For whatever reason, and it's become an epidemic, State fans insist that the 2nd string guy is always the best.

Russell is the best QB we've ever had...have we ever had a QB drafted? TR will get drafter barring a horrible Senior campaign.