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06-18-2015, 01:29 PM
Really Clark?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe

Hunter Renfroe hit a HR to put us in the title game.

Our pitching held the Pac-12 champions to 1 run. And we were already up 1-0 when Renfroe hit the hr.
06-18-2015, 01:34 PM
msstate7

Quote:

Originally Posted by engie

On this:
1. Lovelady is elite back there. We've got to see improvement at the plate. Wouldn't be shocked to see Marrero factor here either. Marrero most likely isn't a "normal" freshman situation given his upbringing...
2. I think 3 of the 5 in the Cape step up next year. At least. None have shown a closer mentality yet to me though. So, this is a notable concern. But it hasn't been all that long ago that Holder was elite in this role for us as a freshman. So, there is precedence there for it to happen under this staff. We've got a number of freshmen with the stuff to fill this role. Will they have the mental side? Yet to be seen...
3. Hard to consider this an absolute must when we went to Omaha last time with Sam Frost and Alex Detz over there. I think Reynolds is better than both of those defensively now, while certainly not elite...

I like lovelady too. I think it was a huge mistake to bench him. Collins just isn't good enough defensively imo. Collins' bat is a must though
06-18-2015, 01:36 PM
msstate7

Quote:

Originally Posted by Really Clark?

Our pitching held the Pac-12 champions to 1 run. And we were already up 1-0 when Renfroe hit the hr.

We were a lot better defensively up the middle in '13 which is very important if you want to win with pitching. Adam ripping the ball didn't hurt either
06-18-2015, 01:41 PM
Really Clark?

Quote:

Originally Posted by msstate7

We were a lot better defensively up the middle in '13 which is very important if you want to win with pitching. Adam ripping the ball didn't hurt either

Sure. I mentioned pitching and defense in the same sentence earlier in this thread. But on any given day a pitcher who is outstanding on that day can control the game for a victory more than any other player. And if he is dominate even weak offenses and defenses can look good.
06-18-2015, 01:54 PM
Tbonewannabe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Really Clark?

Our pitching held the Pac-12 champions to 1 run. And we were already up 1-0 when Renfroe hit the hr.

We also were 3 feet from losing. If the Oregon state guy hit it 10 feet towards RF we lose that game.
06-18-2015, 01:57 PM
AROB44

If a frog had wings..........
06-18-2015, 01:59 PM
maroonmania

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe

We also were 3 feet from losing. If the Oregon state guy hit it 10 feet towards RF we lose that game.

With the new ball being used today that would have been a HR hit where it was. We were just very fortunate to get where we did in 2013 with only one good starter. Even after making the CWS championship round with no losses in the sub-bracket we ended up having to start Pollo in championship game #1. And no offense to Pollo because he gave all he had and did some good things for us, but that is NOT the kind of talent in a pitcher you want starting out a national championship series.
06-18-2015, 02:07 PM
Really Clark?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe

We also were 3 feet from losing. If the Oregon state guy hit it 10 feet towards RF we lose that game.

And if.....the fact is our PITCHING and defense held them. A pitch in a little worse location maybe it does go out but it didn't and in two games we held them to 5 total runs. The "if" game doesn't work.
06-18-2015, 02:09 PM
Tbonewannabe

I don't understand why everyone seems to assume you can't have both great pitching and hitting.

Hopefully Humphries comes back ready to tear the cover off and Robson figures out when to drag bunt and when to actually swing.

It is like when people say in football Defense wins championships. It does as long as your offense can at least be competent. Our problem last year was the offense was built to hit singles and bunt but we then didn't steal bases. We put the fastest player possibly in the country behind the slowest. Our offense was a contradiction of styles. We had a bunch of singles hitters but didn't try to be aggressive on the base path unless it was waving someone home when he is out by a mile.
Last year was probably the most frustrating offense to watch. We would regularly have someone in the zone and then ask them to bunt 2 straight trips. It was like no one was ever allowed to find a rhythm.
06-18-2015, 02:14 PM
Tbonewannabe

I would say our clutch hitting was as much to do with our run as pitching. Hell Demarcus Henderson had more clutch hits that year than probably our entire team last year.
06-18-2015, 02:15 PM
Really Clark?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe

I don't understand why everyone seems to assume you can't have both great pitching and hitting.

Hopefully Humphries comes back ready to tear the cover off and Robson figures out when to drag bunt and when to actually swing.

It is like when people say in football Defense wins championships. It does as long as your offense can at least be competent. Our problem last year was the offense was built to hit singles and bunt but we then didn't steal bases. We put the fastest player possibly in the country behind the slowest. Our offense was a contradiction of styles. We had a bunch of singles hitters but didn't try to be aggressive on the base path unless it was waving someone home when he is out by a mile.
Last year was probably the most frustrating offense to watch. We would regularly have someone in the zone and then ask them to bunt 2 straight trips. It was like no one was ever allowed to find a rhythm.

Who said you can't or don't want to? Nobody is saying that. But of the two you can win more with less offense than less pitching the majority of the time.
06-18-2015, 02:34 PM
shoeless joe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe

I would say our clutch hitting was as much to do with our run as pitching. Hell Demarcus Henderson had more clutch hits that year than probably our entire team last year.

You are not wrong here. But no team makes a run without clutch or timely hitting. That's why some are saying we aren't as far away as others think. With top notch pitching and timely hitting anyone can do well in the postseason.

Folks keep wanting to gloss over what Cohen and his team accomplished in '13 by using a myriad of excuses...we got lucky, the balls benifitted us, etc...

The bottom line is that any team that makes a deep run can go back and look to where they caught a few breaks. People with an agenda look for any way possible to discredit the fact that in '13, with some of cohen's quirky decision making, we made it farther than we ever had under anyone else.
06-18-2015, 03:02 PM
engie

Quote:

Originally Posted by maroonmania

With the new ball being used today that would have been a HR hit where it was. We were just very fortunate to get where we did in 2013 with only one good starter. Even after making the CWS championship round with no losses in the sub-bracket we ended up having to start Pollo in championship game #1. And no offense to Pollo because he gave all he had and did some good things for us, but that is NOT the kind of talent in a pitcher you want starting out a national championship series.

And Rea would have hit a grand slam that was a flyout earlier in that game...
06-18-2015, 05:17 PM
dawgs

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe

I don't understand why everyone seems to assume you can't have both great pitching and hitting.

Amen. I want to win as many games 10-1 as possible. Great hitting and shit pitching, you lose too many games 11-10. Great pitching and shit hitting, you lose too many games 2-1.
06-18-2015, 05:25 PM
dawgs

I haven't watched every CWS game this year, and I haven't watched every inning of the games I have turned on, BUT it sure seems like I see a HR every few innings I've watched. I know there's been 2 1-0 games, but either I've kicked into seeing the only HRs of the CWS or the balls are flying out of the park more these days. Florida had a guy hit a pop fly opposite field HR against Miami. Off the bat it looked like it'd be an easy out.

Either way, the talk that you can't hit HRs at the CWS is proving to be false this year IMO.
06-18-2015, 05:28 PM
Really Clark?

Quote:

Originally Posted by dawgs

Amen. I want to win as many games 10-1 as possible. Great hitting and shit pitching, you lose too many games 11-10. Great pitching and shit hitting, you lose too many games 2-1.

Who is advocating not having both in this thread? Of course you would love to have both. That has not been the debate. Period. The fact is however it is still easier and you have a better chance at winning, even the championship, with great pitching and avg hitting than the other way around. You want both but if want a better chance, build on pitching.
06-18-2015, 05:34 PM
Really Clark?

Quote:

Originally Posted by dawgs

I haven't watched every CWS game this year, and I haven't watched every inning of the games I have turned on, BUT it sure seems like I see a HR every few innings I've watched. I know there's been 2 1-0 games, but either I've kicked into seeing the only HRs of the CWS or the balls are flying out of the park more these days. Florida had a guy hit a pop fly opposite field HR against Miami. Off the bat it looked like it'd be an easy out.

Either way, the talk that you can't hit HRs at the CWS is proving to be false this year IMO.

Home runs have been up across the board the whole year. By as much as 40% at one point this season. The ball change has been discussed ad nauseam.
06-18-2015, 06:17 PM
Tbonewannabe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Really Clark?

Who is advocating not having both in this thread? Of course you would love to have both. That has not been the debate. Period. The fact is however it is still easier and you have a better chance at winning, even the championship, with great pitching and avg hitting than the other way around. You want both but if want a better chance, build on pitching.

I agree. Our 2013 run is probably the only time you will see a pitching staff made up like that make Omaha. Butch has to develop some Stratton/Graveman pitchers. We have to get some pop in the lineup. Robson doesn't need to hit between 2-8. If I see him hitting behind Gordon hitting 4th I will lose my mind.

Cohen needs to quit trying to outsmart everyone and just play baseball.
06-18-2015, 06:25 PM
Todd4State

Quote:

Originally Posted by Really Clark?

Who is advocating not having both in this thread? Of course you would love to have both. That has not been the debate. Period. The fact is however it is still easier and you have a better chance at winning, even the championship, with great pitching and avg hitting than the other way around. You want both but if want a better chance, build on pitching.

Smitty likes to try to change things when he has been proven wrong.
06-18-2015, 06:28 PM
engie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe

Our 2013 run is probably the only time you will see a pitching staff made up like that make Omaha

That staff was #15 nationally in ERA. It was #17 nationally in WHIP. It was #10 nationally in K/9.

A staff doesn't have to be traditional to be elite...

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