The Malik Newman/Diamond Stone Package Deal...

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Originally Posted by engie

Exactly. Great post.

It speaks to the intelligence of these particular members of the "anti-Ray" crowd. While I understand the complaints and anger during the season -- and can even understand skewing on the "he isn't going to get it done" side of the fence -- but it's a totally dumb ass time to be complaining right now, as he's making a move with Malik Newman, has a full roster, has a 2nd 5, a couple of shooters, is in the game with a couple of really good 2015 recruits, etc.

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I hope he does get Malik first and foremost because I am an MSU fan and I want us to win. He is going to get at least four years no matter what happens (even if he sucks this year and we have another losing record). If he loses in year 3 and he doesn't get Malik, the fans will be united in getting rid of him and that year 4 will be awful. I don't think anyone wants that at all. If he gets Malik and wins this year, it will unite the fan base in the best possible way. I hope he does win and we have a united fanbase and we can forget these first two years. I am sick of the divided fanbase as we are all bulldogs.

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Originally Posted by thf24

And how the hell did a man who's had no association with our program in over two years get dragged into yet another basketball thread? Can that please be made a bannable offense, whether it's good or bad?

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Stansbury is MSU's all-time winningest coach and 9th all-time in the SEC. He was the HC for 14 years and and assistant here before that. He will get talked about for a very long time. He'll get brought up till all of us are dead and gone or the internet stops. Accept that and don't let it bother you is my advice.

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Originally Posted by Goat from MSU

This is turning to a another engie"\'s crew vs Dawg61'S crew PISSING MATCH. NO matter what Ray gets year 3 and for his sake it better be 20 or more wins. Better yet let's each give engie and Dawg a six shooter and the winner gets to decide Ray's fate.

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I haven't yet decided what I want Ray's fate to be. I'm simply championing the idea that it's too soon to know -- and literally 100% of evidence from other coaching searches in similar situations bare that out. No one is calling for Ray to win the SEC next year, etc... That's why one side of this is logical -- while one side is full retard.

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Originally Posted by MarketingBully01

I hope he does get Malik first and foremost because I am an MSU fan and I want us to win. He is going to get at least four years no matter what happens (even if he sucks this year and we have another losing record). If he loses in year 3 and he doesn't get Malik, the fans will be united in getting rid of him and that year 4 will be awful. I don't think anyone wants that at all. If he gets Malik and wins this year, it will unite the fan base in the best possible way. I hope he does win and we have a united fanbase and we can forget these first two years. I am sick of the divided fanbase as we are all bulldogs.

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Agreed with all of this. Best basketball post you've had in awhile! Year 3 will tell us the story IMO -- one way or another.

To me, worst case is him winning 16-17 games, not getting Malik, and thus keeping the fanbase divided to an extent. Barring extreme circumstances with injuries or something, I'd be ready to move on to someone new at that point.

I'm not in anyone's crew... I just know u can't fire a coach every two years if u ever want to have a decent program much less a good one...

He's gonna win 20 next year and the same assholes that didn't want it fire Stansbury will say 20 wins doesn't mean anything and the circular argument will continue...

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Originally Posted by engie

I haven't yet decided what I want Ray's fate to be. I'm simply championing the idea that it's too soon to know -- and literally 100% of evidence from other coaching searches in similar situations bare that out. No one is calling for Ray to win the SEC next year, etc... That's why one side of this is logical -- while one side is full retard.

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I was trying for humor here. OK I give you a fact we have 5 players that are returning with at least 900 or more min. of SEC play . We will see how good of a coach Ray is . I believe anything less than 20 wins ,we should think about other options. Newman or no Newman.

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Originally Posted by Dawg61

Stansbury is MSU's all-time winningest coach and 9th all-time in the SEC. He was the HC for 14 years and and assistant here before that. He will get talked about for a very long time. He'll get brought up till all of us are dead and gone or the internet stops. Accept that and don't let it bother you is my advice.

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Ok fair enough. I guess I'm talking specifically about comparisons between him and his program to Ray and the current program. It's pointless and just leads to threads going to shit with year-old arguments.

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Originally Posted by Goat from MSU

I was trying for humor here. OK I give you a fact we have 5 players that are returning with at least 900 or more min. of SEC play . We will see how good of a coach Ray is . I believe anything less than 20 wins ,we should think about other options. Newman or no Newman.

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Agreed

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Originally Posted by engie

I haven't yet decided what I want Ray's fate to be. I'm simply championing the idea that it's too soon to know -- and literally 100% of evidence from other coaching searches in similar situations bare that out.

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I don't need to be dunked into a bucket of shit to know it is shit. I don't need to eat it either to know. You seem to need 100% certainty that Ray is not the guy before you make that decision. You should at least start to consider the possibility that he isn't based on the evidence that only he has brought to the table. Ray is getting this year and most likely next year too but that doesn't mean we can't start to consider that Stricklin rushed a hire in only 18 days after Stansbury resigned and we all ended up with not the right one.

Please eliminate baseball and football from Ray discussions. They are different sports with entirely different situations/circumstances.

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Originally Posted by engie

Exactly. Great post.

It speaks to the intelligence of these particular members of the "anti-Ray" crowd. While I understand the complaints and anger during the season -- and can even understand skewing on the "he isn't going to get it done" side of the fence -- but it's a totally dumb ass time to be complaining right now, as he's making a move with Malik Newman, has a full roster, has a 2nd 5, a couple of shooters, is in the game with a couple of really good 2015 recruits, etc.

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No kidding. Ray is showing at least some ability to recruit. Most of the reasonable people agree that was the biggest question mark about him coming in and what would ultimately decide his fate. Granted, there are no moral victories in recruiting. You either get the players or you don't. But the fact is that he's at least in the game for these quality players. I take that as a good sign considering where we were 4 seasons ago and the atrocious win totals we've put up the last two years. The media openly calling us a dumpster fire, players fighting in the stands, players walking up the court, rampant drug problems, etc. I'm shocked any kid even considers us after all of that, but somehow Ray is getting them to do so. And it tells me that Ray is able to sell the program's values and that kids are listening. Now it's a question of can he close these guys. But at least let it play out and see what happens.

Also, all this talk of 20+ win seasons is the biggest red herring imaginable. Sure, when Stans first started it was a big deal. But by the end, Helen Keller's School for the Blind was winning 20 games a year. And in case anyone wants to conveniently forget, we missed the NCAAT with 20+ wins at least once. That alone should tell you how watered down that "achievement" had become.

Full disclosure: I don't really care much about hoops one way or the other. The last several years of the cluster**** that was the Stans Era ruined it for me, maybe forever. But he had to go. Anyone who can't admit that is a complete moron. I don't know if Ray will succeed or not. Personally, I'd like to see him succeed. But all this constant back-and-forth and the agenda driven anti-Ray crowd is ridiculous. These threads are damn near unreadable because of dipshits like Sandman and Geezer. Dipshits, I might add, who took their ball and went home when we needed them to be supportive. I have no respect for that bullshit.

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Originally Posted by Sandman14

Just gonna jump in and jump right back out of this party. Have to remind you guys of the dream you have concocted and now brow beaten into your skulls to such an extent that you believe it's reality. Stansbury won 17 games or more in 12 of 14 seasons. He won 20 or more in 10 of 14, including his last season in which he won 21. Rick Ray is the laughing stock of the country. He's an assistant coach who has been placed at the helm of a legit SEC basketball program, and his performance has been an utter disaster. He has a combined 7 SEC wins in two years with no hope in sight aside from this pipe dream with Newman. Three years in and we still have no talent whatsoever and are banking on signing the number 1 player in the country.

Stansbury won at least 7 SEC games in 12 of his 14 seasons. That's 7 in same season 12 of 14. Ray has 7 in two years. Stansbury won at least 8 SEC games per season in 10 of his last 11 years.

It would be an unbelievable occurrence if Ray signs Newman. And "unbelievable" is the correct word. Because it's not believable. It won't happen. Would love to be wrong, and yes, doing so could be a game changer for Ray. But somehow getting Kobe Bryant on the team would also be a game changer. Perhaps getting Lebron James to shun Cleveland for Starkville and put a wig on him to trick the NCAA. That would be a game changer too. It's just that those things are unbelievable as well. Like signing Newman.

Would really, really love to be wrong, but this chatter is comical. And I just wanted to infuse some reality into the situation.

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Great comparison. I missed where Kobe and LeBron's dad played for us.

I'm not sure which one was more embarrassing: winning 3 SEC games or having 2 1st round NBA draft picks, the #1 HS player in the country, and a 4 year starter at PG and not making the tournament.

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Originally Posted by thedawg

I'm not in anyone's crew... I just know u can't fire a coach every two years if u ever want to have a decent program much less a good one...

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Agreed, excellent point and no I do not want to be stuck in the Arkansas, LSU hole of firing coaches over and over again. We just have to make very good hires when we do it. Looking at you Stricklin. Don't rush hires or we end up in much worse situations for longer periods of time.

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Originally Posted by Goat from MSU

I was trying for humor here. OK I give you a fact we have 5 players that are returning with at least 900 or more min. of SEC play . We will see how good of a coach Ray is . I believe anything less than 20 wins ,we should think about other options. Newman or no Newman.

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I am good with 20 wins being the bar. Ray gets 20 I'll get off his ass.

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Originally Posted by thf24

Ok fair enough. I guess I'm talking specifically about comparisons between him and his program to Ray and the current program. It's pointless and just leads to threads going to shit with year-old arguments.

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Bringing up Stansbury's win totals and success to pull Ray down annoys the fu@k out of me too but it shouldn't be ignored either.

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Originally Posted by engie

Agreed

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Agreed to Engie's "agreed". Is 20 wins the bar? Can we all agree on "get 20 or get gone"? of course if something ridiculously unfortunate happens like the entire team gets Malaria this can not be the bar.

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Originally Posted by War Machine Dawg

Dipshits, I might add, who took their ball and went home when we needed them to be supportive. I have no respect for that bullshit.

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This can't be overstated. Even if you hate the hire and are 100% sure he's not going to last, you're just hurting the program and making it harder for the next guy by cutting off your support. That logic is, of course, predicated on the assumption that one's first loyalty is to the program, which hasn't seemed to be the case in a few instances.

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Originally Posted by Dawg61

I don't need to be dunked into a bucket of shit to know it is shit. I don't need to eat it either to know. You seem to need 100% certainty that Ray is not the guy before you make that decision. You should at least start to consider the possibility that he isn't based on the evidence that only he has brought to the table. Ray is getting this year and most likely next year too but that doesn't mean we can't start to consider that Stricklin rushed a hire in only 18 days after Stansbury resigned and we all ended up with not the right one.

Please eliminate baseball and football from Ray discussions. They are different sports with entirely different situations/circumstances.

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This is why you are setting yourself up to be a total idiot -- and a whole bunch of us can't wait. You don't "know" what you've seen is "shit". What the logical among us have seen is a lack of depth and upper-class leadership, with talented players playing before they are ready -- and wearing down as years went on.

You DO NEED to be 100% certain that "Ray is not the guy" before you make any damn decisions. This is what's so stupid about your position.

EVERYONE has considered this "possibility". The problem is with your approach as if it's some sort of "factuality" instead of a "possibility".

It's amazing that despite probably 5,000 words -- you STILL don't understand my point with the Cohen analogies. Let me try it for the 90238409238th time -- A BUNCH of the geniuses in our fanbase thought we had made a mistake hiring him for 2 years. They thought we should fire him after year 2. They thought he was terrible. They cussed him and bitched about literally EVERYTHING. Then, they were wrong. Then, they pretended they were ALWAYS on board with the hire. For the most part, it's the same exact people bitching about Ray -- and KNOWING he won't get it done. They are ignorant to the fact that they were ignorant the last time. And no amount of pasted posts from them bashing Cohen and calling for his head will change their mind or make them "get" the similarity to what they are doing with Ray. It's funny -- EVERYONE that possess even marginal logic understand exactly the point of the analogy. While the sky is falling crowd persist in not understanding -- and doing the same exact thing that posterized them the first time.

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Originally Posted by Goat from MSU

I was trying for humor here. OK I give you a fact we have 5 players that are returning with at least 900 or more min. of SEC play . We will see how good of a coach Ray is . I believe anything less than 20 wins ,we should think about other options. Newman or no Newman.

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That would be crazy to get rid of Ray if he wins 19 and pulls in Newman. Granted that won't be setting the world on fire, but ignoring the fact that you've got a game changer recruit coming in that you would likely lose in exchange for taking a flyer on another coach, you'd be dumping Ray as soon as he showed a glimmer of hope. I don't think there's any doubt that as far as the short term, Stricklin didn't make a good decision. Just too much of a hill to climb to bring a guy with no head coachign experience and very little if any regional recruiting ties to a situation with a decimated roster and boosters that are not sold on him. But now that we've put up with a couple of years of growing pains and let him establish some sort of recruiting plan, might as well give him through year four to see if he can turn it around.

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Originally Posted by hopsondawg

Their was talk on Geoff Caulkins radio show this morning of Mississippi adding Horatio Webster to their basketball staff in a bid to secure Malik's signing. Would Rick Ray be open to adding Horatio if that is what it takes to signing Malik?

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There is also talk of OM hiring Gerald Hamilton who is the "handler" of Skal Labissiere. Skal is already a projected lottery pick in 2016.

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Originally Posted by thf24

This can't be overstated. Even if you hate the hire and are 100% sure he's not going to last, you're just hurting the program and making it harder for the next guy by cutting off your support. That logic is, of course, predicated on the assumption that one's first loyalty is to the program, which hasn't seemed to be the case in a few instances.

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Indeed. We all know where the loyalty of the majority of the anti-Ray crowd lies.

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Originally Posted by War Machine Dawg

No kidding. Ray is showing at least some ability to recruit. Most of the reasonable people agree that was the biggest question mark about him coming in and what would ultimately decide his fate. Granted, there are no moral victories in recruiting. You either get the players or you don't. But the fact is that he's at least in the game for these quality players.

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BOOM!!! And now y'all see why I have been bitching about the Newman talk. It isn't because I don't want Newman. OF COURSE I WANT NEWMAN. But do you see what is now growing amongst our fanbase about Ray and his ability to recruit. Ray is starting to gain credit as a good recruiter FOR NO DAMN REASON.

Ask yourself this question. What coach that would be the HC at MSU COULDN'T be in Newman's top 5? His daddy played for MSU. His house and family are only 2 hours from MSU's campus. He can play SEC basketball on national TV only a short drive from his home. He can be the state's hero for forever by playing for MSU for one season and then go be a mega-milionare for life. WHO CAN'T SELL THAT? That is literally the easiest sell EVER for a coach at MSU. Ray gets zero credit from me for being in Newman's top 5. HIS DADDY IS A LEGACY. Now if Ray LANDS Newman I will be VERY IMPRESSED. Till then adding value to Ray's ability to recruit because he's "in the game" with Newman isn't looking at the situation with open eyes.

No offense WMD you're just the first one to post it.

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