Talent comparison to other SEC teams

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

It's not about what he got for me as much as what he could have and should have potentially gotten that he didn't. What he missed on would have been able to get us at least 1-2 more wins a year and that is absolutely program changing to say the least. Cam is actually a good example. He wasn't willing to do what he needed to do to get him even though at that time he would have had plenty of booster support to pull it off. And he missed on AJ Brown and you just can't do that with a prospect like that in your backyard because again he wasn't willing to play the game he needed to go it done. We had two separate seasons where we had to start a DT and a TE on the o-line because we missed on o-line recruiting. Look at how many WR's and o-linemen Dan put in the NFL compared to defensive players and running backs. And even on two of those- Martinas Rankin could have helped us in 2015 when we redshirted him when we started Warren at OT and it took until midseason of 2016 to figure out that Elgton Jenkins was one of our best o-linemen.



He didn't "ignore" it. Read my posts in this thread and I've already spelled it out very clearly. Who recruited Albert Reese the best offensive lineman in the state last year? He was able to keep Charles Cross and developed him as well. On defense he was able to land Forbes and Decamarion Richardson and basically our entire secondary in the portal and he recruited Isaac Smith, Trevion Williams, and Kelley Jones among others who are still playing and will be starters/major contributors for us this season. And our defensive line would have had major problems if he didn't add in Randy Charlton.

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No offense but Reese is 2nd team now. Forbes and Decam were good college players. Cross was sorta a bust. But you only list a few players and half were just moderately successful. Add about 12 more and you got one decent team but we never had it.

Forbes was an elite college player.
So was cross. First rounder.

But joe signed both of those guys.
Leach signed the 21 and 22 classes. Go look at the lineman in those classes. Especially D line. Woof.

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Originally Posted by R2Dawg

No offense but Reese is 2nd team now. Forbes and Decam were good college players. Cross was sorta a bust. But you only list a few players and half were just moderately successful. Add about 12 more and you got one decent team but we never had it.

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Saying that a top 10 NFL draft pick was sort of a bust is a message boards genius level post.

Reese might be second team- for now. The fact of the matter is he is another draft pick whether he starts or not and he did win the Hull Trophy last year. So if he is getting beat out that's a really good thing for us as far as this season goes.

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Originally Posted by confucius say

Forbes was an elite college player.
So was cross. First rounder.

But joe signed both of those guys.
Leach signed the 21 and 22 classes. Go look at the lineman in those classes. Especially D line. Woof.

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Joe or really T-Buck wasn't recruiting Forbes at all. We wouldn't have gotten him if we hadn't made a coaching change. Cross was also on the verge of flipping until we brought in Leach. He gets some credit for the 2020 class just like Dan gets some credit for Croom's last class.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

Joe or really T-Buck wasn't recruiting Forbes at all. We wouldn't have gotten him if we hadn't made a coaching change. Cross was also on the verge of flipping until we brought in Leach. He gets some credit for the 2020 class just like Dan gets some credit for Croom's last class.

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Cross was a fr in 19. Leach has ZERO to do w him. Not Forbes. His recruiting was trash. Period.

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Originally Posted by R2Dawg

He had good OL every year. WR were plenty talented good enough to win in SEC. RB were plenty good too. - AD, Vic Ballard, Robinson, and plenty of 4star rated talent at RB.

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I am not disagreeing with you. We didn't litter the NFL with offensive talent though.. We had a lot of great college players that never panned out.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

Saying that a top 10 NFL draft pick was sort of a bust is a message boards genius level post.

Reese might be second team- for now. The fact of the matter is he is another draft pick whether he starts or not and he did win the Hull Trophy last year. So if he is getting beat out that's a really good thing for us as far as this season goes.

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You think Reese gets drafted?

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

Joe or really T-Buck wasn't recruiting Forbes at all. We wouldn't have gotten him if we hadn't made a coaching change. Cross was also on the verge of flipping until we brought in Leach. He gets some credit for the 2020 class just like Dan gets some credit for Croom's last class.

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No. Forbes signed in December 2019 when Joe was the coach. He literally said in the linked article "a lot of it was about coach Moorhead and coach Buckley, that was a reason I wanted to go ahead and sign early."

https://247sports.com/college/mississippi-state/article/mississippi-state-signee-emmanuel-forbes-140772021/

Cross also signed when Joe was the coach.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

Joe or really T-Buck wasn't recruiting Forbes at all. We wouldn't have gotten him if we hadn't made a coaching change. Cross was also on the verge of flipping until we brought in Leach. He gets some credit for the 2020 class just like Dan gets some credit for Croom's last class.

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How does he get credit for the 2020 class that signed in December 2019 when Joe was the coach?

Dan gets some credit for the 2009 class because he became the coach in December 2008 and signing day wasn't until February 2009.

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Originally Posted by confucius say

How does he get credit for the 2020 class that signed in December 2019 when Joe was the coach?

Dan gets some credit for the 2009 class because he became the coach in December 2008 and signing day wasn't until February 2009.

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He doesn't.

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Originally Posted by confucius say

No. Forbes signed in December 2019 when Joe was the coach. He literally said in the linked article "a lot of it was about coach Moorhead and coach Buckley, that was a reason I wanted to go ahead and sign early."

https://247sports.com/college/missis...bes-140772021/

Cross also signed when Joe was the coach.

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Originally Posted by confucius say

How does he get credit for the 2020 class that signed in December 2019 when Joe was the coach?

Dan gets some credit for the 2009 class because he became the coach in December 2008 and signing day wasn't until February 2009.

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Fair enough. So let's run through what Leach recruited.

QB- Sawyer Robertson- Heisman candidate that Arnett ran off for Mike Wright.

RB- Seth Davis who has been the surprise of camp at what Matt Wyatt thought was our deepest position and is now running third ahead of Johnnie Daniels.

WR- Makai Polk, Zavion Thomas, Jamal Mosley who is competing for a starting job and will certainly be in the WR rotation, Jamire Calvin, and former bowl MVP Justin Robinson. Creed Whittemore will be a productive receiver in college as well.

TE- Got me here!

OL- Cole Smith and Albert Reese who were both Hull Award winners and to answer your question yes I do think he gets drafted. NFL scouts have a hand in who wins the Hull Trophy after all and almost all of the previous winners were drafted. Then you have Canon Boone who is the leading candidate to start at center for us this year, Percy Lewis who was a four star and starter who moved on to two other SEC schools, Nick Jones, and Stephen LaSoya who moved on to another SEC school and started for Vanderbilt.

DL- Trevion Williams who was our best DL last year, Kalvin Dinkins, Deonte Anderson who all will start or be in the rotation this year and Randy Charlton who made the game saving play to win the 2022 Egg Bowl and started for us. Biggest issue with this group has been injuries.

LB- DeShawn Page who started for us and Zakari Tillman who is competing for a starting role this year.

CB- Kelley Jones who has started and will start and DeCarlos Nicholson who has started at MSU and USC

S- Isaac Smith who will start this year and is probably our best player on defense and likely draft pick, Jackie Matthews, Jalen Green who were both starters, and Marcus Banks who probably should have started and was still very productive.

K/P- Massimo Biscardi and Georgopolous were really good additions after 2021.

And you can say "well he had a lot of Moorhead's players" but Leach was our coach for three years. Of course he was going to play the recruits from the previous staff because he never had time to truly build his team. That said, he wasn't nearly as bad a recruiter as some want you to believe.

The reality is Arnett couldn't coach and was in over his head and hired the worst coaching staff in MSU history on offense and then blamed it on recruiting when their "MSU blue collar" football idea failed miserably.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

Fair enough. So let's run through what Leach recruited.

QB- Sawyer Robertson- Heisman candidate that Arnett ran off for Mike Wright.

RB- Seth Davis who has been the surprise of camp at what Matt Wyatt thought was our deepest position and is now running third ahead of Johnnie Daniels.

WR- Makai Polk, Zavion Thomas, Jamal Mosley who is competing for a starting job and will certainly be in the WR rotation, Jamire Calvin, and former bowl MVP Justin Robinson. Creed Whittemore will be a productive receiver in college as well.

TE- Got me here!

OL- Cole Smith and Albert Reese who were both Hull Award winners and to answer your question yes I do think he gets drafted. NFL scouts have a hand in who wins the Hull Trophy after all and almost all of the previous winners were drafted. Then you have Canon Boone who is the leading candidate to start at center for us this year, Percy Lewis who was a four star and starter who moved on to two other SEC schools, Nick Jones, and Stephen LaSoya who moved on to another SEC school and started for Vanderbilt.

DL- Trevion Williams who was our best DL last year, Kalvin Dinkins, Deonte Anderson who all will start or be in the rotation this year and Randy Charlton who made the game saving play to win the 2022 Egg Bowl and started for us. Biggest issue with this group has been injuries.

LB- DeShawn Page who started for us and Zakari Tillman who is competing for a starting role this year.

CB- Kelley Jones who has started and will start and DeCarlos Nicholson who has started at MSU and USC

S- Isaac Smith who will start this year and is probably our best player on defense and likely draft pick, Jackie Matthews, Jalen Green who were both starters, and Marcus Banks who probably should have started and was still very productive.

K/P- Massimo Biscardi and Georgopolous were really good additions after 2021.

And you can say "well he had a lot of Moorhead's players" but Leach was our coach for three years. Of course he was going to play the recruits from the previous staff because he never had time to truly build his team. That said, he wasn't nearly as bad a recruiter as some want you to believe.

The reality is Arnett couldn't coach and was in over his head and hired the worst coaching staff in MSU history on offense and then blamed it on recruiting when their "MSU blue collar" football idea failed miserably.

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You also had Braedyn Locke - who played in 16 games at Wisconsin and threw for 2700+, 18 TDs and 11 INTs and is now at Arizona.
Audavion Collins (CB) - played all 16 games for Penn State last season, and is a a projected starter in his 3rd season.