When Did The Football Downfall Start

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Originally Posted by Coach34

Here is the difference tho- its rumored that Mississippi spent about $15MM on last year's team. You have to figure they will continue to do that as long as they have to.

We, on the other hand, are excited, EXCITED!!!!! that we have upped our spending to $10MM or so. We're not playing the same game as the top of the SEC.

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You cannot blame it all on people for not blindly throwing money at an organization run by good ole boys.
If you really want to compare - then compare their decision making from the top, and what they have put on the field to generate the excitement.
Also, they do not run down their coach on the interwebs and give him nicknames when he is winning 9 games a year. They fall in line and keep quiet for the most part , especially if winning.
They don't opine for the Billy Brewer RTDF days either. They are progressive and will support any coach that is winning, and in any form or fashion it takes to win.
We on the other hand, have boosters and fans that want it done their way.

I won't give to NIL for a bunch of 18 year olds to have money, when our administration cannot even provide a well run game day experience, make smart hiring decisions, and handle the influence of boosters that caused some of the bad decisions.

Just saying before you keep hounding NIL, there is cleanup to do on our leadership.daily fans and web sites also.

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Originally Posted by Matt3467

Is it because we can't match what they are doing spending wise or because we won't?

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A lot of both!

I don't get thinking Mullen leaving was the downfall. That happened well before he left when Mullen decided to interview for jobs year after year. Moorhead messed it up but Leach had the program going the right direction as long as he was here. Then he died, can't plan for that, he was plenty young. Arnett destroyed the program and quit on everyone. Lebby came into a situation that is impossible. No players, not enough NIL and what coach in his right mind wanted to coach that defense we were left after everything happened.

I think I am with C34 on this one, State is not going to field a winning program paying 1/3 to 1/2 what the blue bloods pay simply because all our guys can leave at any point if they are good enough to demand high $$$.

What needs to happen is limited transfers more than anything, a limited payroll can be a developmental program if the transfers can be limited through contracts etc...

Contracts are written so players can't leave teams in every other sport that pays anything either by collective bargaining or employee status. Until the schools decide they want to be employers, this is what we got.

We can still do a few things but top 25 is going to be tough.

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Originally Posted by Santiago

You cannot blame it all on people for not blindly throwing money at an organization run by good ole boys.
If you really want to compare - then compare their decision making from the top, and what they have put on the field to generate the excitement.
Also, they do not run down their coach on the interwebs and give him nicknames when he is winning 9 games a year. They fall in line and keep quiet for the most part , especially if winning.
They don't opine for the Billy Brewer RTDF days either. They are progressive and will support any coach that is winning .

Just saying before you keep hounding NIL, there is cleanup to do on our daily fans and web sites also.

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Nah! We need nicknames!
We had Croomsickle, Merlins, Croomhead, and Arnept. I think Lebby is a work in progress! Maybe ChevytotheLebby!

I think we should raise funds by charging tariffs for visiting teams to use our visitors locker rooms. If they don't want to pay, just get dressed in the buses!

#1

MSU did not replace DM with the right guy. Momentum slipped and program spiralled down.

Moorehead, Leach, Arnett, Lebby since DM is the sign that things went wrong. So many names. But you knew things were toast when 2018 was wasted.

2018 coaches hired:

* Scott Frost to Nebraska - Huge Bush
* Jimbo Fisher to TAM - expensive and Bustish
* Dan Mullen to UF - Bust
* Chip Kelly to UCLA - Bust
* Willie Targart to FSU - Huge Bust
* Joe Moorhead to MSU - Bust
* Chad Morris to Arkansas - Disaster
* Kevin Sumlin to Arizona - Bust
* Jeremy Pruitt to Tennessee- Disaster Bust
* Billy Napier to LAffy - Inspired
* Sonny Dikes to SMU - Inspired
* Mario Cristobal to Oregon - Inspired
* Matt Luke to OM - Bust
* Josh Heuple to UCF - Good

Had a random MSU fan gotten anybody outside of Gruden, Belichik, and Dungy in 2018. Many folks in would have wanted Pruitt or Chip. Not many takers for Billy, Sonny, or Heuple. All the big names in 2018 ended up sucking.

I saw a video recently of Kirby Smart saying they have "reps" reach out to them to join a scheduled Zoom call to discuss all the athletes in the portal they represent around the country. He said these zoom calls take place before the portal is open AND some of the players currently played for him at Georgia!

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Originally Posted by Coach34

Here is the difference tho- its rumored that Mississippi spent about $15MM on last year's team. You have to figure they will continue to do that as long as they have to.

We, on the other hand, are excited, EXCITED!!!!! that we have upped our spending to $10MM or so. We're not playing the same game as the top of the SEC.

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$15 million and they STILL didn't make the playoffs.

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Originally Posted by CaptainObvious

Nah! We need nicknames!
We had Croomsickle, Merlins, Croomhead, and Arnept. I think Lebby is a work in progress! Maybe ChevytotheLebby!

I think we should raise funds by charging tariffs for visiting teams to use our visitors locker rooms. If they don't want to pay, just get dressed in the buses!

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We could sell them eggs, or go to the coach's farm, so they can pay for the MSU "one of us" experience. Or maybe have a day of "run the football" where everyone pays to receive a hand off from the qb on the 50 yard line.
We could generate a few more coins.

This basically was the BS our MSU media and administration was trumpeting while the other school was in the most current century

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Originally Posted by Cooterpoot

John Cohen and Mark Keenum

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Yep. Look at the common denominators.

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Originally Posted by Santiago

You cannot blame it all on people for not blindly throwing money at an organization run by good ole boys.
If you really want to compare - then compare their decision making from the top, and what they have put on the field to generate the excitement.
Also, they do not run down their coach on the interwebs and give him nicknames when he is winning 9 games a year. They fall in line and keep quiet for the most part , especially if winning.
They don't opine for the Billy Brewer RTDF days either. They are progressive and will support any coach that is winning, and in any form or fashion it takes to win.
We on the other hand, have boosters and fans that want it done their way.

I won't give to NIL for a bunch of 18 year olds to have money, when our administration cannot even provide a well run game day experience, make smart hiring decisions, and handle the influence of boosters that caused some of the bad decisions.

Just saying before you keep hounding NIL, there is cleanup to do on our leadership.daily fans and web sites also.

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I wasnt blaming anybody in the State family with my post. It's just where we are. We dont have the money to compete with the top of the SEC. At least half the league will be at 15MM in 2025 with a few above 20MM. It doesnt matter what our Gameday experience is like- we arent getting close to what the top half of the conference is doing
Nicknames is my thing. I literally do it for everyone. Yours is Private Santiago- after the character in A Few Good Men. And if you think Mississippi fans dont call out their guys- you didnt pay attention after their Kentucky and Florida losses. Their people went apeshit.
As far as RTGDF its not about running a 1990's offense but it is being like Tennessee currently. Physical upfront with RPO's and PA passes for chunk plays. Even Mississippi was 5th in the SEC in rushing. Their offense is actually enjoyable to watch. Both Tenn and Mississippi are RTGDF offenses with innovation. Hopefully we'll get closer to that this Fall.

Lastly, the point was made and I want to also note that the portal is hurting us probably more than NIL. We could Moneyball things much more easily if players werent allowed to constantly transfer. Both of these things combined are lethal to our program.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

I wasnt blaming anybody in the State family with my post. It's just where we are. We dont have the money to compete with the top of the SEC. At least half the league will be at 15MM in 2025 with a few above 20MM. It doesnt matter what our Gameday experience is like- we arent getting close to what the top half of the conference is doing
Nicknames is my thing. I literally do it for everyone. Yours is Private Santiago- after the character in A Few Good Men. And if you think Mississippi fans dont call out their guys- you didnt pay attention after their Kentucky and Florida losses. Their people went apeshit.
As far as RTGDF its not about running a 1990's offense but it is being like Tennessee currently. Physical upfront with RPO's and PA passes for chunk plays. Even Mississippi was 5th in the SEC in rushing. Their offense is actually enjoyable to watch. Both Tenn and Mississippi are RTGDF offenses with innovation. Hopefully we'll get closer to that this Fall.

Lastly, the point was made and I want to also note that the portal is hurting us probably more than NIL. We could Moneyball things much more easily if players werent allowed to constantly transfer. Both of these things combined are lethal to our program.

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appreciate you taking it in stride man.
I have worked hard and had some good luck in my business. Now at a point of maybe donating back and it is really difficult to want to give a dollar of all the sacrifices I made to get here to a 18-20 year old.
It is more appealing to give to a scholarship fund or academics currently than to give to a wasteland .
There is no ROI.
Ole Miss - they are just crazy and worship it way more than we do. We have successful alumni as much as they do.
For me, I just would like to have confidence we have better decision makers for hiring, managing the games, and experiences. Hire smart people, and get this engine built correctly.

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Originally Posted by TrapGame

$15 million and they STILL didn't make the playoffs.

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But they were certainly closer than State! How much have they spent to average 9.5 wins over the past 3 years? And how much did State spend to go 5-7 and 2-10 the past 2 years? What is the cost to be a Top 20 team playing in Bowls in cities not named Birmingham or Memphis?

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Originally Posted by Matt3467

Is it because we can't match what they are doing spending wise or because we won't?

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Won't. Their fan base understands what it takes to win and rows in the same direction. Ours doesn't. Simple as that.

You can say, "You can't tell me how to spend my money." "A scholarship was enough back in the day" "I won't ever give to players, but I will give to the university" or the thousands of other things I've heard from Mississippi State fans. It comes down to Ole Miss wants to win. From the President down to the $5 fan. They are completely in sync. We are not. There's no consistent message.

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Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve

Won't. Their fan base understands what it takes to win and rows in the same direction. Ours doesn't. Simple as that.

You can say, "You can't tell me how to spend my money." "A scholarship was enough back in the day" "I won't ever give to players, but I will give to the university" or the thousands of other things I've heard from Mississippi State fans. It comes down to Ole Miss wants to win. From the President down to the $5 fan. They are completely in sync. We are not. There's no consistent message.

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This.

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Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve

Won't. Their fan base understands what it takes to win and rows in the same direction. Ours doesn't. Simple as that.

You can say, "You can't tell me how to spend my money." "A scholarship was enough back in the day" "I won't ever give to players, but I will give to the university" or the thousands of other things I've heard from Mississippi State fans. It comes down to Ole Miss wants to win. From the President down to the $5 fan. They are completely in sync. We are not. There's no consistent message.

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Yes! They understand that winning on the field and the court equals national exposure for their university. It's why they an successfully bring in so many out of state students. The myth of Oxford, The Grove, Harvard of the South etcetera they sell that shit by the bucket full and its all wrapped in red and powder blue on games days broadcast coast to coast on Saturdays. I was just in Tuscaloosa for a conference as part of this we did a campus tour, the kid leading our group was from New Hampshire his brother and sister were in school in the NE. He said the reason he came school there was seeing SEC football on TV and wanting to be a part of that. Winning puts asses in seats in more ways than one.

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Originally Posted by Coursesuper

Yes! They understand that winning on the field and the court equals national exposure for their university. It's why they an successfully bring in so many out of state students. The myth of Oxford, The Grove, Harvard of the South etcetera they sell that shit by the bucket full and its all wrapped in red and powder blue on games days broadcast coast to coast on Saturdays. I was just in Tuscaloosa for a conference as part of this we did a campus tour, the kid leading our group was from New Hampshire his brother and sister were in school in the NE. He said the reason he came school there was seeing SEC football on TV and wanting to be a part of that. Winning puts asses in seats in more ways than one.

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All of this. They get it. And a lot of other schools get it. We have a golden opportunity to sell this dream and fantasy of Gamedays in the South to students far and wide and instead we just recruit a 3 hour radius from campus and stop.

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Originally Posted by CaptainObvious

But they were certainly closer than State! How much have they spent to average 9.5 wins over the past 3 years? And how much did State spend to go 5-7 and 2-10 the past 2 years? What is the cost to be a Top 20 team playing in Bowls in cities not named Birmingham or Memphis?

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Let's revisit this in a couple years after Lebby gets going. And if you don't think people in Oxford are not pissed they spent $15 million to NOT make the playoff. They were told this was THE year. Folks took out loans to give to the Grove Initiative. They thought they were playing for a Natty. If the ceiling in Oxford with the best team money can buy is 9-3 there won't be a lot of people forking over retirements and life savings for that.

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Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve

Won't. Their fan base understands what it takes to win and rows in the same direction. Ours doesn't. Simple as that.

You can say, "You can't tell me how to spend my money." "A scholarship was enough back in the day" "I won't ever give to players, but I will give to the university" or the thousands of other things I've heard from Mississippi State fans. It comes down to Ole Miss wants to win. From the President down to the $5 fan. They are completely in sync. We are not. There's no consistent message.

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I had an older woman with deep ties to State - her Daddy's name is on a building, IIRC-and I know a very healthy bank account tell me she's tired of Selmon calling her for money. She's not paying for players. Then she complained about our football program being shit. She had ZERO self awareness.

I have been a state fan for a little over 20 years now. During that time period, the pendulum swung a bit each way between State and Ole Miss. Overall, they were a bit better than us in football and we were a bit better than them in baseball. We were always able to recover from times we were down by hiring 2 good coaches (Leach and Mullen). The true downfall of Miss State football was Leach's passing. Leach helped us recover from the Moorhead disaster and had us in prime position to go 9-4 again in 2023. Not only did his death impact us significantly, but so did Cohen's inability to comprehend the importance of NIL. From what I understand, we started way behind the 8 ball, but that is not surprising because State in general likes to be the last to the party on things due to the nature of our fanbase and unwillingness to make changes. This is the first time I do not have confidence the pendulum will swing back our way. They have passed us big time in football, they are getting ahead in basketball because they have better coaching and talent overall than us, and baseball is probably about the same even though they are better this year. I legit have no idea what to think of Lebby and I gave him a complete pass year 1, although I would feel better if we had not gone blown out at home by Toledo. An SEC program should never lose to a MAC program unless it is some type of crazy good team like Marshall had in the late 90s with Randy Moss and Byron Leftwich. Toledo only won 7 or 8 games so they were not some exception to the rule. Also it is concerning we lost every single SEC game by double digits. If he does not win more than 4 games I will probably be ready for change, although barring something unethical, he will get year 3.

THIS!!