Tom Herman Fired at FAU

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Originally Posted by BorneDawg

I agree to some extent but most of the deals had been made when he got here ..... am I wrong?

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A lot of them had, and unfortunately we weren't making the deals. By that, I mean that most of the guys who were entering the portal had already been contacted through backchannels and being tentatively offered deals. We are more on top of things this time around and already have some offers out to guys.

yes and thats why I think Lebby needs a little slack this year.... Now has he done a great job....no.......... but is he the worst coach in our history....NO !!! We have not won as man games as Arnett did but over all we have been much more competitive/competent I think (except toledo)

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Originally Posted by KB21

Just because the results are 2-10 does not mean Jeff Lebby has done a bad coaching job. These results are a direct reflection of Zach Arnett, his defensive recruiting, his destruction of the offense in one season, and his lack of ability to develop players. Jeff Lebby inherited a complete mess and has to build this up from the ground. Did you honestly think a coach could have come in here with what Lebby inherited and produce a bowl team?

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You understand there's a difference between "a bowl team" and "2-10 with a blowout loss to Toledo," right?

Again, I hope Lebby finishes better than 2-10 and causes me to rethink my grade for this season, but as of right now it's hard to see him getting better than an F.

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Originally Posted by Quaoarsking

You understand there's a difference between "a bowl team" and "2-10 with a blowout loss to Toledo," right?

Again, I hope Lebby finishes better than 2-10 and causes me to rethink my grade for this season, but as of right now it's hard to see him getting better than an F.

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I give him a C-. The Toledo loss was really bad. No one is denying that. But are we really going to call Lebby a failure due to Toledo? I mean you're completely within your right to if you choose to do that. It's your opinion. But does the Arnett staff do any better? I mean you were going to be rolling with Chris Parson at QB with that staff. I don't think the results are any better. Maybe you beat Toledo, but people are forgetting something....our offense sucked outside of 3 games last year. We avg'd 12.6 ppg in conference play last year. And that's including the South Carolina game. Take that game out and we avg'd 10.1. Through 6 SEC games this year we are averaging 22.5. To take it out further, we avg'd. 21.8 ppg last year. We are averaging 27.6. On to the defense, I really don't think it's any better this year with Arnett. You still lose Jett, Bookie, DeCam, Preston, Banks, Nicholson, Pickering, and Crumedy. And I doubt that staff brings in anything better than what we brought in, heck it probably would've been worse.

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Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve

I give him a C-. The Toledo loss was really bad. No one is denying that. But are we really going to call Lebby a failure due to Toledo? I mean you're completely within your right to if you choose to do that. It's your opinion. But does the Arnett staff do any better? I mean you were going to be rolling with Chris Parson at QB with that staff. I don't think the results are any better. Maybe you beat Toledo, but people are forgetting something....our offense sucked outside of 3 games last year. We avg'd 12.6 ppg in conference play last year. And that's including the South Carolina game. Take that game out and we avg'd 10.1. Through 6 SEC games this year we are averaging 22.5. To take it out further, we avg'd. 21.8 ppg last year. We are averaging 27.6. On to the defense, I really don't think it's any better this year with Arnett. You still lose Jett, Bookie, DeCam, Preston, Banks, Nicholson, Pickering, and Crumedy. And I doubt that staff brings in anything better than what we brought in, heck it probably would've been worse.

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It's my understanding SVS (so correct me if you've heard otherwise) that Jason Candle lobbied for our job pretty hard and we didn't give him the time of day. That was a statement game for him.

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Originally Posted by TrapGame

It's my understanding SVS (so correct me if you've heard otherwise) that Jason Candle lobbied for our job pretty hard and we didn't give him the time of day. That was a statement game for him.

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Not true in the least bit. I saw that rumor too and have legit no clue how it started. At least not this time around. Now he may have lobbied hard previously, maybe 2017 or 2021, but we had no contact with Candle or any of his representatives at Excel this time around. I think we had some discussions with him in either 2017 or 2021, but not real sure on how serious those ever were. I know he was never formally interviewed either time. He's holding out for a Big 10 job. He also can do whatever he wants at Toledo now and they're paying him around 1.2 million a year after his bonuses kick in so he's the highest paid coach in the conference, only McElwain is close to him. If Purdue moves off Walters this year, I could see Candle jumping at the chance. Most feel he's hit his ceiling at Toledo.

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Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve

I give him a C-. The Toledo loss was really bad. No one is denying that. But are we really going to call Lebby a failure due to Toledo? I mean you're completely within your right to if you choose to do that. It's your opinion. But does the Arnett staff do any better? I mean you were going to be rolling with Chris Parson at QB with that staff. I don't think the results are any better. Maybe you beat Toledo, but people are forgetting something....our offense sucked outside of 3 games last year. We avg'd 12.6 ppg in conference play last year. And that's including the South Carolina game. Take that game out and we avg'd 10.1. Through 6 SEC games this year we are averaging 22.5. To take it out further, we avg'd. 21.8 ppg last year. We are averaging 27.6. On to the defense, I really don't think it's any better this year with Arnett. You still lose Jett, Bookie, DeCam, Preston, Banks, Nicholson, Pickering, and Crumedy. And I doubt that staff brings in anything better than what we brought in, heck it probably would've been worse.

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Arnett sucked too and would probably be getting an F right now if we had kept him.

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Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve

I give him a C-. The Toledo loss was really bad. No one is denying that. But are we really going to call Lebby a failure due to Toledo? I mean you're completely within your right to if you choose to do that. It's your opinion. But does the Arnett staff do any better? I mean you were going to be rolling with Chris Parson at QB with that staff. I don't think the results are any better. Maybe you beat Toledo, but people are forgetting something....our offense sucked outside of 3 games last year. We avg'd 12.6 ppg in conference play last year. And that's including the South Carolina game. Take that game out and we avg'd 10.1. Through 6 SEC games this year we are averaging 22.5. To take it out further, we avg'd. 21.8 ppg last year. We are averaging 27.6. On to the defense, I really don't think it's any better this year with Arnett. You still lose Jett, Bookie, DeCam, Preston, Banks, Nicholson, Pickering, and Crumedy. And I doubt that staff brings in anything better than what we brought in, heck it probably would've been worse.

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Not unless we’re calling Dan a failure for losing to south Alabama two years after being ranked no.1

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Originally Posted by Quaoarsking

Arnett sucked too and would probably be getting an F right now if we had kept him.

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I think defensively we'd probably be SCHEMATICALLY a bit better. I still think the talent would be bad. Basically instead of Arkansas scoring 58, they probably only score 38. The opposite of that is that we'd be MARKEDLY worse on offense. So instead of 28 against Arky we probably score 7-10 pts. With our schedule, I would imagine we'd be averaging between 6-9 ppg if Arnett was still the HC. I mean hell, we were basically averaging that with a senior QB and some weapons at WR.

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Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve

I think defensively we'd probably be SCHEMATICALLY a bit better. I still think the talent would be bad. Basically instead of Arkansas scoring 58, they probably only score 38. The opposite of that is that we'd be MARKEDLY worse on offense. So instead of 28 against Arky we probably score 7-10 pts. With our schedule, I would imagine we'd be averaging between 6-9 ppg if Arnett was still the HC. I mean hell, we were basically averaging that with a senior QB and some weapons at WR.

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Oh, I disagree that we would be schematically better. Any scheme that is based around you having to blitz to get pressure is not a great scheme. Particularly when the scheme is inherently weak against the pass.

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Originally Posted by KB21

Oh, I disagree that we would be schematically better. Any scheme that is based around you having to blitz to get pressure is not a great scheme. Particularly when the scheme is inherently weak against the pass.

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I did not say we would be A LOT better. And I solely think we would be a little better because his specialty was defense whereas Jeff is offense. We would still have the same problems, Little talent and less depth, but maybe we are able to get to the QB a bit more. As I said though, I think our record is the same. Offensively we would still be a mess with no clue what we were trying to do on offense.

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Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve

I did not say we would be A LOT better. And I solely think we would be a little better because his specialty was defense whereas Jeff is offense. We would still have the same problems, Little talent and less depth, but maybe we are able to get to the QB a bit more. As I said though, I think our record is the same. Offensively we would still be a mess with no clue what we were trying to do on offense.

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Honestly, I think we would be even worse from a passing efficiency standpoint defensively. The defense in 2023 took a drastic decline when it came to pass efficiency after losing just a couple of starters in the secondary. There was a declining trend for three years prior to this year defensively as well.

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Originally Posted by KB21

Honestly, I think we would be even worse from a passing efficiency standpoint defensively. The defense in 2023 took a drastic decline when it came to pass efficiency after losing just a couple of starters in the secondary. There was a declining trend for three years prior to this year defensively as well.

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I mean our defense was not what some made it out to be under Arnett. It was not great. He almost cost us the 22 Egg Bowl, he arguably did cost us 22 LSU by spying Daniels with Jett Johnson, and he probably cost us the 21 game at Arkansas by not daring Jefferson to throw it on us instead of letting them run wild.

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Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve

I mean our defense was not what some made it out to be under Arnett. It was not great. He almost cost us the 22 Egg Bowl, he arguably did cost us 22 LSU by spying Daniels with Jett Johnson, and he probably cost us the 21 game at Arkansas by not daring Jefferson to throw it on us instead of letting them run wild.

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The further Arnett got from the players he inherited, the worse his defense was going to be.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

Our new coach is doing a worse job than the guy we just fired

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I know right. Dude lied to an entire group of kids that went thru hell for him and took a 9 win team and ran it in the ditch. Didnt even leave the keys for Lebby to start the car

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Originally Posted by KB21

Arnett was in charge of recruiting on defense and also developing those players on defense. Defense is our biggest issue because we have an FCS caliber DL and players who were never developed under Arnett. Zach Arnett took a team that won 9 games in 2022 and had 16-17 starters returning and burned it to the ground. Jeff Lebby inherited a roster that had one player who started on a 5-win team. Jeff Lebby's offense is miles better than the shit offense Kevin Barbay and his run run run punt philosophy, and that's with a true freshman at QB and new starters at every position.

Zach Arnett should be seen as a pariah by Mississippi State fans. He's the single worst thing that has ever happened to the program.

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Arnett was fine till he let some rats in

2 things can be true. The yacht club murdered MS State football and Keenum allowed it. Or let it happen. And Lebby can be a bad hire. It is both. I can go ahead and tell yall that the nepotism is so strong with Lebby and company that its going to
Take the next coach to fix it. We have multiple players missing workouts/practices and nothing is ever done. The culture we had with Mullen died with Moorhead. Leach fixed it then it died when Arnett/BP lied. That is our biggest issue at the moment. Lebby is not firing Hutzler or any of his boys on staff on his own. That?s including the strength and speed coaches. And Selmon is not firing a Lebby. Keenum is not doing shit, but he hasnt done shit since hiring arnett in a panic because he was too busy not doing shit to hire an AD

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Originally Posted by KB21

Arnett was in charge of recruiting on defense and also developing those players on defense. Defense is our biggest issue because we have an FCS caliber DL and players who were never developed under Arnett. Zach Arnett took a team that won 9 games in 2022 and had 16-17 starters returning and burned it to the ground. Jeff Lebby inherited a roster that had one player who started on a 5-win team. Jeff Lebby's offense is miles better than the shit offense Kevin Barbay and his run run run punt philosophy, and that's with a true freshman at QB and new starters at every position.

Zach Arnett should be seen as a pariah by Mississippi State fans. He's the single worst thing that has ever happened to the program.

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Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve

Arnett is the same coach that stood in front of his team after Kentucky, a game we lost 24-3, and said, "two more wins and my job is safe". Not two more wins and we go to a bowl or two more wins and we can start to build some momentum. Nope. "Two more wins and MY JOB is safe".

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This is 100 percent true and the kids quit.

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Originally Posted by KB21

Just because the results are 2-10 does not mean Jeff Lebby has done a bad coaching job. These results are a direct reflection of Zach Arnett, his defensive recruiting, his destruction of the offense in one season, and his lack of ability to develop players. Jeff Lebby inherited a complete mess and has to build this up from the ground. Did you honestly think a coach could have come in here with what Lebby inherited and produce a bowl team?

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Nope. And I agree with you fully. We have a faction of the fan base that are totally unrealistic and try to lump Lebby in there with Lea and Pittman.

Does anyone really think if Arnett had stayed we'd be a damn bit better than we are now? Not saying Lebby was the greatest hire but Arnett was not the answer.