Baseball Guys

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Originally Posted by Johnson85

Remind me who this is and how they are top three? Not arguing with you because I'm never deep into baseball and checked out completely last year, but I didn't think we had top three talent across any three or four players. And I would have assumed there would be three big spenders on NIL that would keep us out of the top three even if we improved a lot.

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Mershon SS/2B- hit .330 last year as a true freshman-starting the 2nd half of the season. OBP of .427...stole 12/13
Amani Larry- hit .297 with 7 HR's and 16 doubles. OBP of .451 with 34 BB's and 17 HBP's. Stole 19/21. Scored 59 runs
Hunter Hines- .299 career hitter with 38 career HR's- 22 as a Soph. Will be drafted Top 5 rounds-Projected Top 150 in the country. 34 XBH's last year for a .683 slugging (for context- Tanner Allen had 35 XBH's when we won the WS.)
Dakota Jordan- Projected 1st round pick who ended up hitting .307 after a slow start as freshman. 10 HR's, 9 doubles and a triple.

That right there is as good as anybody in the country and better than 95% of college baseball

One big problem is that the best talent wants to play in warm weather and the SEC conference. So everybody in the SEC gets better from the portal. So every SEC team is just so tough. For example, everyone thought MSU was terrible at 9-21 in the league. And Ole Miss was even worse at 6-24. Just terrible. Yet in nonconference games MSU went 18-5 and Ole Miss 19-5. So were we both terrible or just in a tough league? Missouri was 10-20 in the SEC and 20-3 in nonconference. So maybe the conference is the problem. For comparison Maryland was an awesome team in their conference, finishing 17-7. Yet they were only 20-12 in nonconference play. Cal State Fullerton was 20-10 in their conference and 11-12 in nonconference play. Michigan was 13-11 in their conference and 13-15 in nonconference play.

Having said all that, the pitching improvement (or not) will be the key for us. The lineup will be good enough.

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Originally Posted by somebodyshotmypaw

One big problem is that the best talent wants to play in warm weather and the SEC conference. So everybody in the SEC gets better from the portal. So every SEC team is just so tough. For example, everyone thought MSU was terrible at 9-21 in the league. And Ole Miss was even worse at 6-24. Just terrible. Yet in nonconference games MSU went 18-5 and Ole Miss 19-5. So were we both terrible or just in a tough league? Missouri was 10-20 in the SEC and 20-3 in nonconference. So maybe the conference is the problem. For comparison Maryland was an awesome team in their conference, finishing 17-7. Yet they were only 20-12 in nonconference play. Cal State Fullerton was 20-10 in their conference and 11-12 in nonconference play. Michigan was 13-11 in their conference and 13-15 in nonconference play.

Having said all that, the pitching improvement (or not) will be the key for us. The lineup will be good enough.

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SEC is just brutal

What series do we win here:

SEC Slate
LSU
@ TAMU
@ UF
UGA
@ OM
AU
@ Vandy
UAT
@ Ark
MU

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Originally Posted by sandjunky

What series do we win here:

SEC Slate
LSU
@ TAMU
@ UF
UGA
@ OM
AU
@ Vandy
UAT
@ Ark
MU

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Depends on pitching living up to the potential

It’s that simple

We very well may be quite good this year, but I am not sure some realize just how bad we were last year. We were actually lucky in wins and losses relative to our run differential. We were BAD.

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Originally Posted by smootness

We very well may be quite good this year, but I am not sure some realize just how bad we were last year. We were actually lucky in wins and losses relative to our run differential. We were BAD.

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That's true. I think part of the reason we didn't have a losing season was because Lemonis had our team playing hard even though we didn't have any pitching whatsoever.

And our bats were pretty good.

Which is why I'm optimistic.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

That's true. I think part of the reason we didn't have a losing season was because Lemonis had our team playing hard even though we didn't have any pitching whatsoever.

And our bats were pretty good.

Which is why I'm optimistic.

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Exactly- we are and should be good offensively. I'm not even worried about that. It's strictly down to the mound. Big Country having a big Fall excites me because He was always the wild card. Purdue's #1 can easily become our #3 on Sunday and give us some quality outings. Loo needs to show growth with his awesome potential. Loftin needs to grow up. Simmons and Auger will provide quality innings.

It's exciting to me to see how the pitching pans out. The O will be there

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Originally Posted by Coach34

Exactly- we are and should be good offensively. I'm not even worried about that. It's strictly down to the mound. Big Country having a big Fall excites me because He was always the wild card. Purdue's #1 can easily become our #3 on Sunday and give us some quality outings. Loo needs to show growth with his awesome potential. Loftin needs to grow up. Simmons and Auger will provide quality innings.

It's exciting to me to see how the pitching pans out. The O will be there

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A lot of our fans have forgotten about Auger and Simmons. Auger was up to 96 this fall. Simmons can close if no one else steps up. That takes pressure off of Dohm. And we have Cam Schuelke who is going to be really good out of the pen and give us something we haven't really had under Lemonis- someone that can attack hitters from different arm angles.

We need to add a little dog and toughness. It wouldn’t hurt to put a little gun powder in the whole team’s food.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

That's true. I think part of the reason we didn't have a losing season was because Lemonis had our team playing hard even though we didn't have any pitching whatsoever.

And our bats were pretty good.

Which is why I'm optimistic.

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We didnt have a losing season??

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Originally Posted by BuckyIsAB****

We didnt have a losing season??

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Won more than we lost, so yes.
SEC not so much.

I think we will be pretty decent but I think we blew our chance to move back into the top half of the SEC when we could not pull any elite players from the portal. We got several good support players from the portal but I don't think we got any true topline guys when there were several available both in the field and pitching wise. We are now mostly dependent on a number of existing players making a significant jump this year.

Just being decent in pitching gets MSU to Hoover. In 2023, the pitching was not just bad, its was catastrophe bad. Especially versus SEC competition.

I think the growth of Freshman pitchers and having an array of decent transfers will provide MSU with the 6 to 7 decent arms to win more ball games than last year.

Hitting has been SEC mediocre for years. But you have Hines and Jordan as big weapons. The rest is all potential and hypotheticals.

Defense has scrapped E5 at 3B and Foreskin is gone, so the bat and the defense can only be better in 2024. You have serious competition for infield spots, will keep everyone sharp.

Outcome for the Team, completely unknown. I suppose many 13th and 14th place SEC teams have made Supers and Omaha over the years. A winning SEC record will be a big outcome for 2023. Not saying the boys are not good, just acknowledging that all SEC have talent, blue chip recruits, 1st rounders, and huge potential. Also, this is baseball, we don't really know how much a leap the kids have made until we see them again.

I predict a regional on the road, because the schedule is brutal. Could see us in a super if we get a good draw but that's a big IF.
Pitching and defense will be improved.

We're gonna hit and score runs, defense should be much improved,as always it comes down to pitching. Got a lot of potential on the mound and our new PC is a good un. I expect us to be in a regional and if we get the right draw could be in a super as well.

Make a regional and that?s progress. If he doesn?t make a regional he?s done. I still have faith in him though. I think we get in as a 2 seed

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

That's true. I think part of the reason we didn't have a losing season was because Lemonis had our team playing hard even though we didn't have any pitching whatsoever.

And our bats were pretty good.

Which is why I'm optimistic.

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Great post. Some on here said the team quit, but I never saw that. The offense kept producing and the kids played hard, but we couldn't stop a lineup of 9 year olds with our pitching last year. We blew multiple big leads after the 6th inning. If we would've had just average pitching we would've had at least 35 wins. I haven't seen pitching as bad as that since 9 year old kid pitch. You know a bunch of strikeouts, a bunch of walks and hbps and home runs, that's how bad it was.

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Originally Posted by The Federalist Engineer

Hitting has been SEC mediocre for years. But you have Hines and Jordan as big weapons. The rest is all potential and hypotheticals

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You would have to include Larry as a big proven weapon- he had a really good year last year

You also have to be excited about Mershon and what he did the 2nd half of the season. He built his stats in SEC games basically.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

You would have to include Larry as a big proven weapon- he had a really good year last year

You also have to be excited about Mershon and what he did the 2nd half of the season. He built his stats in SEC games basically.

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Mershon also seemed to have that dirtbag attitude that we were missing.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

You would have to include Larry as a big proven weapon- he had a really good year last year

You also have to be excited about Mershon and what he did the 2nd half of the season. He built his stats in SEC games basically.

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Yeah 100%.

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Originally Posted by preachermatt83

Make a regional and that?s progress. If he doesn?t make a regional he?s done. I still have faith in him though. I think we get in as a 2 seed

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Nah. It is a host a regional and honestly it may be make a SR. He is making too much money and this is the end of the talent cycle as well. If he does not make serious noise then it is time to move in a different direction. He has been given two mulligans. As I have said for 3 years, that stadium was not built for April. It was built for June.

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Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve

Nah. It is a host a regional and honestly it may be make a SR. He is making too much money and this is the end of the talent cycle as well. If he does not make serious noise then it is time to move in a different direction. He has been given two mulligans. As I have said for 3 years, that stadium was not built for April. It was built for June.

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^^^ This can't be stated enough.

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Originally Posted by Commercecomet24

Great post. Some on here said the team quit, but I never saw that. The offense kept producing and the kids played hard, but we couldn't stop a lineup of 9 year olds with our pitching last year. We blew multiple big leads after the 6th inning. If we would've had just average pitching we would've had at least 35 wins. I haven't seen pitching as bad as that since 9 year old kid pitch. You know a bunch of strikeouts, a bunch of walks and hbps and home runs, that's how bad it was.

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I think some our fans think that because we lose a game or a series or whatever it's because we "didn't play hard enough". But like you said we would blow a lead late and then our guys would come back from it. And then the pitching would blow the lead again! We would lose a game like 13-12 and we would have fans that would blame the offense. It's just crazy to me! How do you come to that conclusion? Tanner Allen, Jake Mangum, Rowdey, and Elijah MacNamee wouldn't have been able to overcome our pitching staff the last two years either. And it sure wouldn't have been because of their lack of playing hard.

This team had a massive comeback against LSU last year and won that series, played their ass off against Ole Miss to come from behind to win that series, beat the greatest USM team ever or so I was told by their fans and etc. And some of that happened after this team had nothing to play for and no pitching coach.

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Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve

Nah. It is a host a regional and honestly it may be make a SR. He is making too much money and this is the end of the talent cycle as well. If he does not make serious noise then it is time to move in a different direction. He has been given two mulligans. As I have said for 3 years, that stadium was not built for April. It was built for June.

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End of a talent cycle? Our talent in 2025 has a very real chance to be as good as it has ever been here.

Rotation could be Loo, Loftin, and Siary. Caden Marcum is a huge wild card there but he was a first round pick out of high school and then had Tommy John before the draft and ended up in JUCO. He could be a huge steal for us. I think Makhai Grant and Nolan Stevens could be big time contributors out of the bullpen as well once Grant recovers from Tommy John and he should be recovered by next season.

Highfill will be a junior. Assuming Hines goes pro Jackson McKenzie or Stevens will take over for him. They'll be sophomores. Then we get Mershon and Cupp back and a year older. Third base will be up for grabs but Paul Spalitta could potentially move there and then we're probably getting Henry Allen through the draft and he probably starts day one somewhere.

Assuming we lose Dakota Jordan we have a ton of guys that can play the outfield and Dante Nori could start day one in CF. We get Bryce Chance back and he will be an upperclassman. Allen, Stevens, and Spalitta could all fight for spots in the OF. Conrad Cason is one of the top dual position prospects in the country and he could help out on the mound, 3B, SS, or the OF.

And based on what I'm hearing I think we have a good chance to get those guys through the draft. At least at this way too early point.

I know a mentioned a few freshman but with the portal and a good season we don't really have a ton of needs. We'll take any pitcher that can help us and it would be great to find an established closer like an Aaron Nixon again. Maybe a proven third baseman and another OF but those needs are hardly massive and very doable with our NIL. If the season goes like I think it will it will be easier to get those players too.

Now I do agree that if we don't perform this year then you have to look at firing Lemonis. I just don't think it will come down to that.

I'm on the side that believes we have good talent. The pitching execution was just atrocious last year. That impacted everything. If we cut just cut down on walks and compete on the mound, that will make all the difference in the morale of the team.

To get back to a host-level team, we have got to have leadership that hates to lose. We need guys who want the ball or bat when the game is on the line. I feel like we have some good candidates.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

End of a talent cycle? Our talent in 2025 has a very real chance to be as good as it has ever been here.

Rotation could be Loo, Loftin, and Siary. Caden Marcum is a huge wild card there but he was a first round pick out of high school and then had Tommy John before the draft and ended up in JUCO. He could be a huge steal for us. I think Makhai Grant and Nolan Stevens could be big time contributors out of the bullpen as well once Grant recovers from Tommy John and he should be recovered by next season.

Highfill will be a junior. Assuming Hines goes pro Jackson McKenzie or Stevens will take over for him. They'll be sophomores. Then we get Mershon and Cupp back and a year older. Third base will be up for grabs but Paul Spalitta could potentially move there and then we're probably getting Henry Allen through the draft and he probably starts day one somewhere.

Assuming we lose Dakota Jordan we have a ton of guys that can play the outfield and Dante Nori could start day one in CF. We get Bryce Chance back and he will be an upperclassman. Allen, Stevens, and Spalitta could all fight for spots in the OF. Conrad Cason is one of the top dual position prospects in the country and he could help out on the mound, 3B, SS, or the OF.

And based on what I'm hearing I think we have a good chance to get those guys through the draft. At least at this way too early point.

I know a mentioned a few freshman but with the portal and a good season we don't really have a ton of needs. We'll take any pitcher that can help us and it would be great to find an established closer like an Aaron Nixon again. Maybe a proven third baseman and another OF but those needs are hardly massive and very doable with our NIL. If the season goes like I think it will it will be easier to get those players too.

Now I do agree that if we don't perform this year then you have to look at firing Lemonis. I just don't think it will come down to that.

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The reason I say talent cycle is because every guy you mentioned is solely on potential. They have either not shown it at all or not shown it consistently at this level. Those other guys (Jordan, Hines, Larry, etc.) are proven commodities at this level. If those guys you mentioned all produce then it is all a moot point.

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Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve

The reason I say talent cycle is because every guy you mentioned is solely on potential. They have either not shown it at all or not shown it consistently at this level. Those other guys (Jordan, Hines, Larry, etc.) are proven commodities at this level. If those guys you mentioned all produce then it is all a moot point.

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It's fair to project that by this time next year those guys will have improved quite a bit after having gone through a SEC season and a season of Summer Baseball.

Usually if a team has elite starting pitching they're going to be very good. We could conceivably have three MLB.com top 100 pitchers in our rotation next year in their junior year in 2025.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

I think some our fans think that because we lose a game or a series or whatever it's because we "didn't play hard enough". But like you said we would blow a lead late and then our guys would come back from it. And then the pitching would blow the lead again! We would lose a game like 13-12 and we would have fans that would blame the offense. It's just crazy to me! How do you come to that conclusion? Tanner Allen, Jake Mangum, Rowdey, and Elijah MacNamee wouldn't have been able to overcome our pitching staff the last two years either. And it sure wouldn't have been because of their lack of playing hard.

This team had a massive comeback against LSU last year and won that series, played their ass off against Ole Miss to come from behind to win that series, beat the greatest USM team ever or so I was told by their fans and etc. And some of that happened after this team had nothing to play for and no pitching coach.

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Nailed it. The kids played hard all year and that's a credit to Lemonis and shows he didn't "lose" the team. I just can't say enough how truly bad our pitching was, it was historically bad. That go for strikeouts, pitch away from contact approach absolutely killed our pitching staff. Get ahead 0-2 and then throw 3 straight non-competitive breaking balls to get the hitter back in the count and then either walk the hitter on another bad breaking ball or groove a fastball that gets destroyed. Our pitching was way to predictabale. Just lay off the bad stuff and get our pitchers behind and then you either get a walk or big fat meatball to hit. Parker has changed that approach and i believe we'll challenge more hitters this year(thank heavens!). I hate nibbling!

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Originally Posted by Commercecomet24

Nailed it. The kids played hard all year and that's a credit to Lemonis and shows he didn't "lose" the team. I just can't say enough how truly bad our pitching was, it was historically bad. That go for strikeouts, pitch away from contact approach absolutely killed our pitching staff. Get ahead 0-2 and then throw 3 straight non-competitive breaking balls to get the hitter back in the count and then either walk the hitter on another bad breaking ball or groove a fastball that gets destroyed. Our pitching was way to predictabale. Just lay off the bad stuff and get our pitchers behind and then you either get a walk or big fat meatball to hit. Parker has changed that approach and i believe we'll challenge more hitters this year(thank heavens!). I hate nibbling!

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Exactly. I usually stay away from commenting on pitch selection because I don't have the scouting report. But when it's like what you are talking about where we're literally pitching every hitter the same way no matter what- there is zero chance in hell everyone has the same scouting report. I felt bad for our pitchers. I could see in their face that they didn't have any confidence in what they were being asked to do sometimes. I saw a couple of pitchers go off the rails last season at times which I don't condone but I also understand why in this situation.

Pitching isn't like football where your team picks a style and everyone goes with it. Pitchers all have unique skill sets. Different types of fastball and breaking balls. Different spin rates. Different arm angles. Every pitching plan for each pitcher has to be individualized to that pitcher. That's where the pitching lab comes in. And that's where Foxhall ultimately failed. You can't make it one size fits all with pitchers.

I feel bad for guys like Parker Stinnett and KC Hunt. They could have been really developed into next level pitchers with proper coaching.

I also think this team under Lemonis tutelage will be 3-9, maybe 4-8 going into the UGA game. There has been talent the past 2 years on this team. Some of it is still here. But the coaching staff only had one change.

Will the pitching be better? Maybe. But, has Parker removed all the bad habits in one fall? Not likely. And there is no arm that could start for all the top programs that I see.

There are going to still be a couple of holes in the batting order. I would rather see 9 guys all hitting .290 with 25 xbhs than 2 guys batting .360 and 4 guys batting .240 or less. The latter is what I fear against SEC pitching.

I say 32-24 (12-18 SEC) after that horrible 3-9 SEC start.

Oh, and if they do start 3-9 or worse in the SEC, there should be an Interim HC when State plays Georgia.

I'm not gonna get all into this but I disagree with some things posted. I will say our coaching decisions were iffy a lot. Also there were several games played that our kids showed no energy. This wasn't MSU baseball. We were a soft baseball team last year.
I'm all in for this year, but sugar coating making excuses isn't making me feel good about last year. In saying this, I'm turning the page and will support our program and hope we get back to playing MSU baseball that I know.

Until he stops putting the third baseman on second we will never win.

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Originally Posted by Commercecomet24

I hate nibbling!

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Infuriating.

Parker will have our pitchers attacking hitters weaknesses

I like Larry as my leadoff or possibly 2nd.

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Originally Posted by basedog

I'm not gonna get all into this but I disagree with some things posted. I will say our coaching decisions were iffy a lot. Also there were several games played that our kids showed no energy. This wasn't MSU baseball. We were a soft baseball team last year.
I'm all in for this year, but sugar coating making excuses isn't making me feel good about last year. In saying this, I'm turning the page and will support our program and hope we get back to playing MSU baseball that I know.

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Did we play with our hair on fire the entire season? No. I'm not sure we did that in 2021 either- remember when we got swept by Arkansas that year?

As far as the season as a whole- we didn't just tank. We kept on fighting for the most part until the last series.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

Did we play with our hair on fire the entire season? No. I'm not sure we did that in 2021 either- remember when we got swept by Arkansas that year?

As far as the season as a whole- we didn't just tank. We kept on fighting for the most part until the last series.

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Doesn't matter, you play every inning and every game with energy. Lemonis sat by and watched the ship sink, more went on than most know. I'm hoping all will be good this year, no doubt new pitching coach is a start, but we have to get the players in the correct positions and Lord knows, ones that are head cases and cause problems in the dugout need to go.
Nothing wrong with being positive leading the cheer squad, but potential is just a word used way too much. Give me guys that play all out with hustle and desire all day long.

The start of the season in Sec play will tell the story.

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Originally Posted by basedog

Doesn't matter, you play every inning and every game with energy. Lemonis sat by and watched the ship sink, more went on than most know. I'm hoping all will be good this year, no doubt new pitching coach is a start, but we have to get the players in the correct positions and Lord knows, ones that are head cases and cause problems in the dugout need to go.
Nothing wrong with being positive leading the cheer squad, but potential is just a word used way too much. Give me guys that play all out with hustle and desire all day long.

The start of the season in Sec play will tell the story.

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Base, I always respect your takes and opinions, because I know you're not just talking out of your butt. If you say there were more issues than we know then I 100% trust you on that. Let's hope Lemonis has learned from the disaster and I hope we turn it around this season, as well. I want to see the MSU baseball i know and love. And you're right the start of SEC play will tell us what we need to know. Appreciate your takes!

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Originally Posted by Commercecomet24

Base, I always respect your takes and opinions, because I know you're not just talking out of your butt. If you say there were more issues than we know then I 100% trust you on that. Let's hope Lemonis has learned from the disaster and I hope we turn it around this season, as well. I want to see the MSU baseball i know and love. And you're right the start of SEC play will tell us what we need to know. Appreciate your takes!

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I said the year we won the Natty we needed to celebrate BUT put it behind us and go back to work (I told my daughter this). Instead, we didn't work hard and get prepared for what was ahead which was a target on our backs. What makes Saban so good and Skip Bertman was the drive to succeed every year and not get lazy with practice and recruiting. I'm just amazed how fast we fell after winning the Natty. Then seeing team chemistry being destroyed and letting things go was bad. Hey, it happens I know, but we had too many good ole boys and everything is ok and we can turn this around until it's too late. A few players is all it takes to destroy team chemistry, Coaches and Players have to step up and be leaders. Hey I know I'm a little critical of how we handled things, but it shouldn't have happened. We took a big step back on our tradition and things are about to really get tough in years to come with Tx and Ok coming into the league.
I like Lemonis, but he has to show some fire and emotion and not just sit on the bucket to start the year. I'm pulling for him, I hope we make a regional and do well, show me the Baseball Program I know and I love! I guess my rant is over, I hate what I saw the last two years, should not have happened.
Again, I wish Lemonis and team the best this year, I will be attending and supporting.