KB's choice for OC on TV tonight W. Kentucky

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Santiago

Except Coach posting a thread about other team's offenses just looks petty when we really suck on offense this year . We had to read the posts the past few years about it, but now we suck and it is nothing but spin. There is relevance.

---

I get that...although you have to expect it too if you get on the opposite of Coach and he ends up right. I also get it why from how certain posters do the exact same the from the other side. Just as petty with narcissistic vitriol. You might have been reading but not really posting during that time, I don't recall, but for months it got nasty from all sides. There is a lot of residual stuff from the last few years but it wasn't just Coach. It was coming from different sides and much worse than this post honestly. Much much worse.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gtowndawg

We gave up 28 and 413 to Western Michigan's 75th ranked offense (Middle Tennessee is 69th in the country, not 94th)

We are 92nd in the country.

https://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/...ent/team/21/p2

---

70th Scoring D

Scoring is what matters at the end of the game. When they put total offense on the scoreboard- I'll talk about it more

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Really Clark?

I get that...although you have to expect it too if you get on the opposite of Coach and he ends up right. I also get it why from how certain posters do the exact same the from the other side. Just as petty with narcissistic vitriol. You might have been reading but not really posting during that time, I don't recall, but for months it got nasty from all sides. There is a lot of residual stuff from the last few years but it wasn't just Coach. It was coming from different sides and much worse than this post honestly. Much much worse.

---

I hope anyone is right , at this point, if it means winning. Coach, or KB.
My only concern is if we win and mask issues, that they don't get swept away.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Santiago

I hope anyone is right , at this point, if it means winning. Coach, or KB.
My only concern is if we win and mask issues, that they don't get swept away.

---

Winning always masks issues at every school. Losing forces change to correct issues at every school. That's the way it will be. Fan motivations have to removed from an AD and HC actual decisions they have to make. Until losing to such a degree or level over a period time motivates a change from apathy. But that's a troubled edge to balance. 2 examples for both sides of right and wrong. Georgia's move from Richt to Smart. Fan and booster apathy for not winning at a higher rate got to the point that the AD made a change. It ended up the correct move but that first season there fans motivated to get rid of Smart as well. At USM fan and booster apathy got to the point that they push to move on from Bower. They have struggled to have that same type of solidification as a program since he left. It's cost them during conference realignments a lot.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Coach34

70th Scoring D

Scoring is what matters at the end of the game. When they put total offense on the scoreboard- I'll talk about it more

---

I suspect the truth is we are pretty low in scoring offense too. Not sure if we are above or below WKU.

Would not surprise me if their offensive efficiency numbers are better than ours either.

USM?s inability to accept that Jeff Bower had them at their pinnacle of Football attainability is what has them in the mess they are in today.

Dan Mullen?s inability to see that he probably could have had a lifetime contract at MSU had he accepted that being a successful Head Coach at a historical bottom feeder football program where the only thing unavailable to his family was a Shopping Mall and a Target is why MSU is where We are today. Perpetually looking for the Football Messiah!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CaptainObvious

I?ll be interested to see how much of our ?offensive talent? hits the portal the weekend after Thanksgiving .

---

Hopefully most of it. I've seen our offense play!! ***

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Really Clark?

Winning always masks issues at every school. Losing forces change to correct issues at every school. That's the way it will be. Fan motivations have to removed from an AD and HC actual decisions they have to make. Until losing to such a degree or level over a period time motivates a change from apathy. But that's a troubled edge to balance. 2 examples for both sides of right and wrong. Georgia's move from Richt to Smart. Fan and booster apathy for not winning at a higher rate got to the point that the AD made a change. It ended up the correct move but that first season there fans motivated to get rid of Smart as well. At USM fan and booster apathy got to the point that they push to move on from Bower. They have struggled to have that same type of solidification as a program since he left. It's cost them during conference realignments a lot.

---

USM is a great example. Bower consistently won every year but never beat the top 25 teams and fans and boosters(the few they have), wanted a coach to take them to the next level. Fedora did well to bowers players all graduated and he left for unc and they have literally reached the next level(not the one they wanted, lol).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Commercecomet24

USM is a great example. Bower consistently won every year but never beat the top 25 teams and fans and boosters(the few they have), wanted a coach to take them to the next level. Fedora did well to bowers players all graduated and he left for unc and they have literally reached the next level(not the one they wanted, lol).

---

Good points. I would also argue that Fedora was winning the same as Bower his first 3 years until his last season. He purposefully ruined the roster to get that one year to move on. He brought in a lot of short time guys for that season but the roster was trashed and he hadn't recruited well behind it while he was there. It worked but if it hadn't he would have been stuck with a tanked team for years. Took 3 years and 2 coaches to finally get it back. Unfortunately Monken didn't like recruiting and left to be an OC in the NFL. Fedora tried to do the same type of thing at UNC to get a blue blood job but they didn't come calling after his 4th and 5th year at UNC. Went 3-9 and 2-10 the next 2 years.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Really Clark?

Good points. I would also argue that Fedora was winning the same as Bower his first 3 years until his last season. He purposefully ruined the roster to get that one year to move on. He brought in a lot of short time guys for that season but the roster was trashed and he hadn't recruited well behind it while he was there. It worked but if it hadn't he would have been stuck with a tanked team for years. Took 3 years and 2 coaches to finally get it back. Unfortunately Monken didn't like recruiting and left to be an OC in the NFL. Fedora tried to do the same type of thing at UNC to get a blue blood job but they didn't come calling after his 4th and 5th year at UNC. Went 3-9 and 2-10 the next 2 years.

---

Great analysis and spot on. 100% accurate. That last year of his he brought in all those mercenaries to try to move up and it worked well, then he tried to repeat at unc and that didn't go so well. If i remember right there were some folks on here who wanted us to go after him, lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by confucius say

I suspect the truth is we are pretty low in scoring offense too. Not sure if we are above or below WKU.

Would not surprise me if their offensive efficiency numbers are better than ours either.

---

The point was in no way to compare anything to WKU. It was directed at the knuckleheads that are toting the Errr Raid water who were trying to make Hollingshead into a hero that would have helped lead MSU to 10 wins if only we had stuck with the system.

And now, they've tried to say that anybody against the Err Raid is a Barbay/Arnett apologist. Couldn't be further from the truth. They all suck. And I think most level headed people can see that we weren't going to win big even if we had stood pat. We would have lost Leach's playcalling regardless, we did nothing to improve the QB, RB, or WR positions from last year. If nothing else it would have been more of the same with a decidedly worse defense.

Could we have won 9 this year? Maybe, IF Leach was still the HC. But even if we had kept the same system, it would still have been a bunch of new coaches knocking their heads together and making a bunch of rookie mistakes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Commercecomet24

Great analysis and spot on. 100% accurate. That last year of his he brought in all those mercenaries to try to move up and it worked well, then he tried to repeat at unc and that didn't go so well. If i remember right there were some folks on here who wanted us to go after him, lol.

---

Lol. Oh yeah there were some who did want us to go after him.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Really Clark?

They didn't quit but it was 35-16 with about 8 min left in the 4th. Hit a nice 1 big play TD in the fourth. They are just regressed from the last few years. Drew will get there eventually but he needs evolve his play calling.

Liberty defense gave up 35 to Middle TN St who is a middle of the conference offense last week. Teams may have figured a little something out. Liberty should win out though.

---

Liberty has the top defense in C-U.S.A. and WKU scored 9 points above Liberty's average points allowed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by confucius say

I suspect the truth is we are pretty low in scoring offense too. Not sure if we are above or below WKU.

Would not surprise me if their offensive efficiency numbers are better than ours either.

---

76th Counting the FCS team. When you remove the FCS school as Team Ranking does, we are 83rd averaging 23.3 points per game. We are behind Vandy in scoring offense. The only team in the SEC lower than us is a team that beat us! USCe

In other words, we are 6 points per game worse this year.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Todd4State

Liberty has the top defense in C-U.S.A. and WKU scored 9 points above Liberty's average points allowed.

---

Like I said earlier in the thread, the last 2 weeks they have given up more than normal. Want to see if LA Tech does the same and if teams have figured something out.

WKU scored late when it was over. I know when we do it's played off as nothing positive for our offense. Not saying you do but it is a lot on the board.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BlackSailsDawg

76th Counting the FCS team. When you remove the FCS school as Team Ranking does, we are 83rd averaging 23.3 points per game. We are behind Vandy in scoring offense. The only team in the SEC lower than us is a team that beat us! USCe

In other words, we are 6 points per game worse this year.

---

We were 26.67 last year not counting FCS Take out the Ark game this year where we didn't have our starting QB and we are at 25.2. Pretty good to only lose 1.4 points per game when transitioning from an offense that no one alive runs.

Not the dunk you thought it was....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MrCoachKlein

We were 26.67 last year not counting FCS Take out the Ark game this year where we didn't have our starting QB and we are at 25.2. Pretty good to only lose 1.4 points per game when transitioning from an offense that no one alive runs.

Not the dunk you thought it was....

---

Did you take out the 6 extra TD's we had on defense and ST's last year? Ya know, since we have exclude some things as BlackSails does

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Coach34

Did you take out the 6 extra TD's we had on defense and ST's last year? Ya know, since we have exclude some things as BlackSails does

---

Excuse me. I took the punt block TD off this years point totals, but that was the FCS game I excluded

I did take off 1 Forbes return from 2022 FCS game,so 327 offensive points in 12 games. 27.25

133 in 5 FBS games with Will starting 26.6, so we are 0.65 points off last year.

It's really crazy that a bunch of kids recruited for an entirely different system are doing equally as good. Almost like it was a scheme issue last year causing the problems.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MrCoachKlein

Excuse me. I took the punt block TD off this years point totals, but that was the FCS game I excluded

I did take off 1 Forbes return from 2022 FCS game,so 327 offensive points in 12 games. 27.25

133 in 5 FBS games with Will starting 26.6, so we are 0.65 points off last year.

It's really crazy that a bunch of kids recruited for an entirely different system are doing equally as good. Almost like it was a scheme issue last year causing the problems.

---

Hmmmm, so not a whole of difference considering the transition. Good work there!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Really Clark?

Like I said earlier in the thread, the last 2 weeks they have given up more than normal. Want to see if LA Tech does the same and if teams have figured something out.

WKU scored late when it was over. I know when we do it's played off as nothing positive for our offense. Not saying you do but it is a lot on the board.

---

I think a lot on here call them "garbage time" points so they don't count, lol!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RockyDog

The point was in no way to compare anything to WKU. It was directed at the knuckleheads that are toting the Errr Raid water who were trying to make Hollingshead into a hero that would have helped lead MSU to 10 wins if only we had stuck with the system.

And now, they've tried to say that anybody against the Err Raid is a Barbay/Arnett apologist. Couldn't be further from the truth. They all suck. And I think most level headed people can see that we weren't going to win big even if we had stood pat. We would have lost Leach's playcalling regardless, we did nothing to improve the QB, RB, or WR positions from last year. If nothing else it would have been more of the same with a decidedly worse defense.

Could we have won 9 this year? Maybe, IF Leach was still the HC. But even if we had kept the same system, it would still have been a bunch of new coaches knocking their heads together and making a bunch of rookie mistakes.

---

Yeah, did nothing last year in recruiting... Parson, Creed, Justin Brown(transferred once the system changed in spring ball), Seth Davis.....those guys will probably all suck ***
Alos lost all the other backup QBs with the system change. Locke may have left anyway, but we did not help ourselves in changing the system.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Santiago

Yeah, did nothing last year in recruiting... Parson, Creed, Justin Brown(transferred once the system changed in spring ball), Seth Davis.....those guys will probably all suck ***
Alos lost all the other backup QBs with the system change. Locke may have left anyway, but we did not help ourselves in changing the system.

---

Parson was not playing no matter who the coach is. Creed would have touched the ball less in Leach?s system because he doesn?t play RB.

I didn?t say one thing about any of them sucking, douchebag. I said we didn?t add anybody that was going to play over the returners we had coming back. Therefore, the Leach offense would have been mostly identical to last year. Same Will. Same Woody. Same underutilized WR group.

And don?t kid yourself thinking that the wonder freshmen were going to stay regardless and sit another season behind Rogers. The QB room was going to be the same as it is now except with a different guy besides Wright as the backup.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Commercecomet24

I think a lot on here call them "garbage time" points so they don't count, lol!

---

Exactly!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Coach34

Did you take out the 6 extra TD's we had on defense and ST's last year? Ya know, since we have exclude some things as BlackSails does

---

Is there an equation for playing Georgia last year also? This year we got South Carolina, who has a very pourous defense

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RockyDog

Parson was not playing no matter who the coach is. Creed would have touched the ball less in Leach?s system because he doesn?t play RB.

I didn?t say one thing about any of them sucking, douchebag. I said we didn?t add anybody that was going to play over the returners we had coming back. Therefore, the Leach offense would have been mostly identical to last year. Same Will. Same Woody. Same underutilized WR group.

And don?t kid yourself thinking that the wonder freshmen were going to stay regardless and sit another season behind Rogers. The QB room was going to be the same as it is now except with a different guy besides Wright as the backup.

---

Locke will be a 4 year starter at Wisconsin. We lost a talented QB. Creed would have played this year under Leach's system. Parson stayed with MSU and encouraged all other players to be the legacy of Coach Leach's last signing class. This may not be seen this year, but is a big impact next season and the next.

This post didn?t age well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by preachermatt83

This post didn?t age well.

---

Did they win? Please tell me they won just for the entertainment purposes of this thread.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DownwardDawg

Did they win? Please tell me they won just for the entertainment purposes of this thread.

---

They lost 42-29

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DownwardDawg

Did they win? Please tell me they won just for the entertainment purposes of this thread.

---

No. But clearly had very little to do with offensive output.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by preachermatt83

No. But clearly had very little to do with offensive output.

---

It was 28-10 to start the 4th quarter. 35-16 mid 4th quarter.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RockyDog

Parson was not playing no matter who the coach is. Creed would have touched the ball less in Leach?s system because he doesn?t play RB.

I didn?t say one thing about any of them sucking, douchebag. I said we didn?t add anybody that was going to play over the returners we had coming back. Therefore, the Leach offense would have been mostly identical to last year. Same Will. Same Woody. Same underutilized WR group.

And don?t kid yourself thinking that the wonder freshmen were going to stay regardless and sit another season behind Rogers. The QB room was going to be the same as it is now except with a different guy besides Wright as the backup.

---

We would have been much better at WR this year than last- add in a much more favorable schedule and I think our offense averages around 36 PPG on the season. Zavion, Robinson, and Creed would have been better utilized and would have made a huge difference. And no way Leach runs Woody 20+ times against people like SELU. I think Tulu would have broke out this year as well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Santiago

Yeah, did nothing last year in recruiting... Parson, Creed, Justin Brown(transferred once the system changed in spring ball), Seth Davis.....those guys will probably all suck ***
Alos lost all the other backup QBs with the system change. Locke may have left anyway, but we did not help ourselves in changing the system.

---

While I think a few of them may turn out good, none of them has done anything yet. Notice what is missing? Where are the star LOS guys? I hope we have a few on D, not sure yet.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RockyDog

Parson was not playing no matter who the coach is. Creed would have touched the ball less in Leach?s system because he doesn?t play RB.

I didn?t say one thing about any of them sucking, douchebag. I said we didn?t add anybody that was going to play over the returners we had coming back. Therefore, the Leach offense would have been mostly identical to last year. Same Will. Same Woody. Same underutilized WR group.

And don?t kid yourself thinking that the wonder freshmen were going to stay regardless and sit another season behind Rogers. The QB room was going to be the same as it is now except with a different guy besides Wright as the backup.

---

Add to that we know Leach didn't play backups either to prepare for future or whatever so no impact this year.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by preachermatt83

This post didn?t age well.

---

aged very well. WK getting getting garbage points when they were clearly beat doesnt change that

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Coach34

aged very well. WK getting getting garbage points when they were clearly beat doesnt change that

---

We were told just weeks ago scoring 30 on usc and WR having his best career day was meaningless bc we lost.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Homedawg

We were told just weeks ago scoring 30 on usc and WR having his best career day was meaningless bc we lost.

---

hahahaha- yep

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Homedawg

We were told just weeks ago scoring 30 on usc and WR having his best career day was meaningless bc we lost.

---

Yep, people using the same tired, old narratives.