So we have two choices....

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11-13-2022, 03:35 AM
Todd4State

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cowbell

Leach is in no way equal to Mullen at this point. Mullen had us atleast knocking on the door

Knocking on the door of what? If Leach wins the Egg Bowl and East Tennessee State he would have basically had the same season as Dan in 2010.
11-13-2022, 03:41 AM
Cowbell

Quote:

Originally Posted by Todd4State

Knocking on the door of what? If Leach wins the Egg Bowl and East Tennessee State he would have basically had the same season as Dan in 2010.

You are really stretching Todd. Todays SEC slate isn't near what it was in 2010-2015. And leach ain't winning the egg bowl. The sec teams we have beaten are atrocious right now.
11-13-2022, 03:44 AM
Patrick Tibbons

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cowbell

Leach is in no way equal to Mullen at this point. Mullen had us atleast knocking on the door

What door did Dan have us knocking on?
We finished higher than 4th in the West once.
Other that 2014, we were 4th or 5th in the West every year under Mullen.
11-13-2022, 03:47 AM
Patrick Tibbons

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cowbell

You are really stretching Todd. Todays SEC slate isn't near what it was in 2010-2015. And leach ain't winning the egg bowl. The sec teams we have beaten are atrocious right now.

5 of the top 11 teams in the CFB poll are in the SEC and we play 4 of them this year.
11-13-2022, 03:50 AM
Cowbell

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick Tibbons

5 of the top 11 teams in the CFB poll are in the SEC and we play 4 of them this year.

And how many of those 4 are we gonna beat? And let's talk about the records of the sec teams we beat.... how many of them are going bowling?
11-13-2022, 04:05 AM
Patrick Tibbons

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cowbell

And how many of those 4 are we gonna beat? And let's talk about the records of the sec teams we beat.... how many of them are going bowling?

We are currently 0-3 against #1, #7, & #10 with Ole Miss left to play.

Arkansas and Auburn both have a chance at bowl eligibility. A&M does not.

However, this has nothing to do with what you originally posted where you stated the SEC isn?t what it was in 2010-2015.
11-13-2022, 04:06 AM
Todd4State

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cowbell

You are really stretching Todd. Todays SEC slate isn't near what it was in 2010-2015. And leach ain't winning the egg bowl. The sec teams we have beaten are atrocious right now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Todd4State

Knocking on the door of what? If Leach wins the Egg Bowl and East Tennessee State he would have basically had the same season as Dan in 2010.

The only stretch is Dan having us knocking on the door of anything.

FWIW- Neither MSU nor Ole Miss have a win over a team with six wins right now and if they beat us we would be their best win of the year won/loss wise.
11-13-2022, 04:16 AM
bulldawg28

There was a time going back to Jackie Sherill & Mullen that a crowd and environment like tonight was a 75% chance for an upset/win. You could feel it in the air it was going to happen. With Leach there is no chance.

The crowd has gotten him every win this year but against good teams he's losing, no questions asked. We haven't won 1 sec road game this year and it's year 3! He's sucking the life out of the program and fans are stuck on what he used to be and Press conferences.

Go get on the booth Leach because that's all you're good for right now. Head Football coaching has passed you. He's literally worried about chairs for WR's. Dude this isn't 8th grade football! The guy is terrible and killing the program and enthusiasm towards it.
11-13-2022, 07:07 AM
Leeshouldveflanked

Quote:

Originally Posted by Todd4State

We're going to have to actually commit to recruiting at a much higher level than we are. Period. MSU as an AD has never done that. That's the biggest reason why we are stuck at 6-8 wins.

The problem is MSU fans and the AD have always tried to "do more with less" by bringing in some football guru to outscheme the SEC with lesser talented players and that is only going to get us so far.

I think it's because pre NIL we always ended up on probation and MSU always heavily penalized itself as a reaction. This discouraged our boosters from cheating or getting organized like we could and should have. It's also the biggest reason we got behind in NIL with Cohen not having a clue what he was doing as reason 1B.

I think that instead of blowing everything up as a program every few years let's actually invest in recruiting and see what we can build. We recruit reasonably well in other sports there is no reason why we can't in football.

^^^^This^^^^ is probably the best solution. Plus we are not going to have an AD until Probably January.
11-13-2022, 08:50 AM
basedog

Amazing it is a debate between Leach vs Mullen. Why, DM is gone and want be back, Leach is our HC, nothing special to see, we have regressed badly this year. Lack of talent at the skill positioning is on Leach and staff. I for one think we could do better, we need some fire, gotta like our DC, young and aggressive, his guys play hard and he plays a lot of guys.
11-13-2022, 08:55 AM
msstate7

Quote:

Originally Posted by msu15

Man some of you are so brain dead it's appalling.

Q is going down with the ship. Some of us can't find or won't look for the seat belt release on a sinking ship. I went down with the USS Howland
11-13-2022, 08:59 AM
DownwardDawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadaverDawg

I thought we were talking about if our recruiting was significantly better under specific coaches. Leach isn't a big time
Recruiter either...so I thought you meant using the money to help us recruit. It won't increase the amount Leach puts into it, just like it wouldn't Mullen. But the money would help.

And since Mullen won 10 games and had a balanced attack with stout defenses....and Leach isn't even our best coach on the field each Saturday....I would definitely say Mullen could win much bigger than Leach if each had a top 15-20 class each year. But that's just me and I'm aware it can't be proven.

Mullen was sooooo close to being that special coach for MSU. He showed what State is capable of if he had given more effort. Better recruiting and play calling and not job searching and he would have played in the SEC championship game a couple of times.
11-13-2022, 09:03 AM
Saltydog

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadaverDawg

1. Be happy with 6-6/7-5 and continuing the bowl streak every year against someone like Miami of Ohio in the weed eater bowl. Meanwhile we continue to battle Vandy as the worst attended SEC football program, and overall enthusiasm continues to dwindle.

I know it sounds spoiled to complain about 7-5, but it is what it is. 7-5 has gotten stale. I just want us to have hope going in to big games. I can take 7-5 if we at least have a chance against the big boys. With Leach, we don't...and we won't. Argue all you want, but you know it's true.

2. Get rid of Leach/Encourage him to retire with pay....and take a chance on hiring someone that could potentially give us hope against the big boys.

I know it's risky. And it could result in Jimbo-like results. But we aren't beating LSU, Bama, Georgia, Tennessee, or Ole Miss again under Leach. Not with their current coaches. So do you risk losing the Belk bowl for a long shot chance at the Sugar?

I totally get the fear many have of going with a risky hire and potentially losing our bowl streak. I know we're poor State and it could be much worse. But how much NIL money will come in if we continue showing no ability to compete with the better teams? What is the advantage of staying at a pretty much guaranteed 6-6/7-5/8-4? These days damn near everyone goes bowling. Does anyone remember who won the Texas Bowl the last few years? Me neither.

We have to decide if we're wanting to try to compete, or if we're ok with being a 6-6 type program going forward. If you think we're going to increase our money as a 6-6/7-5 program...we're not. And yes, Ole Miss is committed and running circles around us. So are we going to get serious about football, or not? Are you good with 7-5 and a bowl while others are pumping in money to compete? You cool with pushing harder at hoops and baseball and sucking at football?

Those are the questions State fans and admin must answer. Are we all in on the #1 money maker sport, or are we too conservative (scared) to take a chance on being better? Maybe we can, maybe we can't...but as my grandpa said, "can't never could". I think we can do better. There's no way Ole Miss can consistently be top 15 taking Bama to the wire, and we have to settle for 30 point ass whippings against them. The Grove ain't that special...Oxford ain't that great....it's a commitment. A commitment we don't have. We can, we should...we don't. We would rather feel sorry for ourselves. Ole Miss is elitist, and pricks...but you can't deny their confidence, and the expectations they have. We are chicken shits with no confidence we can step up and get it done. So we settle. We settle for mediocre. We settle for a little better than average. We settle for "upper half of the league". "It's the SEC West" after all. "These teams have more money than us". "These teams have towns with more to offer". Bunch of damn excuses if you ask me.

Commit, 100%...or commit to not committing so those that want to win at a high level can commit their time and money and weekends to something or somebody that wants to succeed.

We've been doing this for how many decades now? If we haven't been able to compete up until now we're screwed in the NIL era. The rich will get richer, meanwhile in Starkville.
11-13-2022, 09:04 AM
DownwardDawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by bulldawg28

There was a time going back to Jackie Sherill & Mullen that a crowd and environment like tonight was a 75% chance for an upset/win. You could feel it in the air it was going to happen. With Leach there is no chance.

The crowd has gotten him every win this year but against good teams he's losing, no questions asked. We haven't won 1 sec road game this year and it's year 3! He's sucking the life out of the program and fans are stuck on what he used to be and Press conferences.

Go get on the booth Leach because that's all you're good for right now. Head Football coaching has passed you. He's literally worried about chairs for WR's. Dude this isn't 8th grade football! The guy is terrible and killing the program and enthusiasm towards it.

100%!!!!! When JWS was our coach, I expected to win every time I walked in that stadium or watched on tv. Mullen had some of that feel also. Today, you already know the outcome before the game starts. No chance of winning the big games.
11-13-2022, 09:12 AM
the_real_MSU_is_us

Some rose colored glasses looking back at Mullen.

His recruiting was lazy and it gave us 0 chance to compete at a high level. His offense was only balanced under Dak, and he failed to turn that success into real QB talent (Fitz was a great runner but an awful QB overall). He could not keep a DC and the turnover capped our defensive potential. He had the WORST WR room in the SEC most years. He kept got awful assistants and we called them the "Country Club". That also capped our potential. He clammed up in big games, capping our potential.

Ultimately, Dan averaged like 7 wins a year. He had 1 good season and we went 10-3, loosing handily to Bama.

I do not understand how so many here are infatuated with him. He did not win big, and his recruiting/poor assistants/high DC turnover/poor skill position players/poor big game playcalling meant we had no chance to ACTUALLY win the West. But so many here make excuses like "he played a harder schedule!" even when it's pointed out we play 4 top 11 teams this year.
11-13-2022, 09:29 AM
ImissCityBagel

1. Leach needs to make some adaptations like anyone else still using the air raid.
2. We need a mobile QB. Right now, it feels like everything has to be perfect every play or Will gets sacked, he has to last minute dink and dunk, or throw it away. There's nothing to help a broken play. Everytime I see other SEC qbs run for 12 yards on a 3rd down it makes me sad.
3. We desperately need WRs that can catch the ball in big games. Last year's egg bowl, Bama, last night had too many crucial drops. If we can't catch the ball in big games, it kind of defeats the purpose of the air raid.
11-13-2022, 09:30 AM
msstate7

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_real_MSU_is_us

Some rose colored glasses looking back at Mullen.

His recruiting was lazy and it gave us 0 chance to compete at a high level. His offense was only balanced under Dak, and he failed to turn that success into real QB talent (Fitz was a great runner but an awful QB overall). He could not keep a DC and the turnover capped our defensive potential. He had the WORST WR room in the SEC most years. He kept got awful assistants and we called them the "Country Club". That also capped our potential. He clammed up in big games, capping our potential.

Ultimately, Dan averaged like 7 wins a year. He had 1 good season and we went 10-3, loosing handily to Bama.

I do not understand how so many here are infatuated with him. He did not win big, and his recruiting/poor assistants/high DC turnover/poor skill position players/poor big game playcalling meant we had no chance to ACTUALLY win the West. But so many here make excuses like "he played a harder schedule!" even when it's pointed out we play 4 top 11 teams this year.

Fine.

Mullen 69-46 (.600)
In sec 33-39 (.458)

Leach 17-17 (.500)
In sec 10-15 (.400)

If mullen wasn't good, leach really sucks
11-13-2022, 09:31 AM
defiantdog

I get it. Being mediocre is boring, but we are honestly a good qb and wr away from being a really good team. Look at Bama for example, they are loaded with 5 stars..... but are beatable because they don't have any receivers that can take over a game like years past.

Will's a good kid..... but he's not going to win the big games. Rara's a decent receiver..... but he isn't going to demand any double teams.
11-13-2022, 09:36 AM
the_real_MSU_is_us

Quote:

Originally Posted by msstate7

Fine.

Mullen 69-46 (.600)
In sec 33-39 (.458)

Leach 17-17 (.500)
In sec 10-15 (.400)

If mullen wasn't good, leach really sucks

Correct! Leach has been a disappointment. 2020 was a pass because he had to clean up the cancer JoMo left. 2021 we were statistically the most unlucky team in CFB and if we had a FG kicker nobody wold have an issue. This season has been a massive disappointment because the offense has not taken the step forward it needed to. If THIS is the Leach offense, then Leach needs to go because this is not good enough.
11-13-2022, 09:47 AM
defiantdog

Quote:

Originally Posted by msstate7

Fine.

Mullen 69-46 (.600)
In sec 33-39 (.458)

Leach 17-17 (.500)
In sec 10-15 (.400)

If mullen wasn't good, leach really sucks

I wonder what our 3rd quarter stats are this year..... because thats when we have lost each game.
11-13-2022, 09:50 AM
msugolf

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_real_MSU_is_us

Some rose colored glasses looking back at Mullen.

His recruiting was lazy and it gave us 0 chance to compete at a high level. His offense was only balanced under Dak, and he failed to turn that success into real QB talent (Fitz was a great runner but an awful QB overall). He could not keep a DC and the turnover capped our defensive potential. He had the WORST WR room in the SEC most years. He kept got awful assistants and we called them the "Country Club". That also capped our potential. He clammed up in big games, capping our potential.

Ultimately, Dan averaged like 7 wins a year. He had 1 good season and we went 10-3, loosing handily to Bama.

I do not understand how so many here are infatuated with him. He did not win big, and his recruiting/poor assistants/high DC turnover/poor skill position players/poor big game playcalling meant we had no chance to ACTUALLY win the West. But so many here make excuses like "he played a harder schedule!" even when it's pointed out we play 4 top 11 teams this year.

First of all, it was 19-13 Bama in the 4th quarter in 2014. We outgained them 428-335 in total yards, had 26 first downs to their 17 but we had 3 turnovers and one of Dak's worst games. If that is "losing handily" (not to be confused with "loosing handily") then I'd like to hear what you call Leach's performances against the elites where the stat sheet is completely lopsided the other way and he's scored 1 td in 12 quarters against Bama, which was a garbage td at that.

Second of all, why is it if someone says something negative about Leach people automatically throw you into a Mullen argument. I don't want to go back to that offense or system either but at least his teams played physical
11-13-2022, 09:56 AM
memsu06

I have found a coach for y'all. Availability coming this season.

Has won a national championship.

Known for his extensive offense.

Known for developing QBs.

Recruited the #1 class in the nation.

Jimbo Fisher!!
11-13-2022, 09:57 AM
PikeDawg15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leeshouldveflanked

^^^^This^^^^ is probably the best solution. Plus we are not going to have an AD until Probably January.

Spending 70 million dollars on renovating a baseball stadium that didn?t need renovating instead of investing that in recruiting and other football related things. Is the proof that we don?t care enough about football.

But but the left field lounge!!!
11-13-2022, 10:00 AM
Patrick Tibbons

Quote:

Originally Posted by msugolf

First of all, it was 19-13 Bama in the 4th quarter in 2014. We outgained them 428-335 in total yards, had 26 first downs to their 17 but we had 3 turnovers and one of Dak's worst games. If that is "losing handily" (not to be confused with "loosing handily") then I'd like to hear what you call Leach's performances against the elites where the stat sheet is completely lopsided the other way and he's scored 1 td in 12 quarters against Bama, which was a garbage td at that.

Second of all, why is it if someone says something negative about Leach people automatically throw you into a Mullen argument. I don't want to go back to that offense or system either but at least his teams played physical

The premise of his post was correct besides losing handily to Bama. However, we did lose handily to Ole Miss that year so maybe he got confused.

To answer your second point, the guy who started this thread to bash Leach, introduced Mullen into this thread, not a Leach supporter.
11-13-2022, 10:08 AM
Homedawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Todd4State

That's quite an assumption given that Dan was horrible at recruiting and worse at it than Leach.

We don't have to be top 10 to make a jump. We should shoot for top 20.

Been agreeing w a lot you have said, but, Dan wasn't worse at recruiting than CML. Leach hates it just as much. Maybe more. I'll save my stories til after he's gone. But it's terrible.
11-13-2022, 10:09 AM
Homedawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by PikeDawg15

Spending 70 million dollars on renovating a baseball stadium that didn?t need renovating instead of investing that in recruiting and other football related things. Is the proof that we don?t care enough about football.

But but the left field lounge!!!

And we will never be a great football program. Just what it is. To say would shouldn't have built the new dude is just stupid.
11-13-2022, 10:17 AM
Saltydog

You don't spend your way outta debt. We could've put that money into football and we'd still be exactly where we are now. It is what it is and it's not going to change. The sooner some of you relegate to that fact the happier, healthier life you can live.
11-13-2022, 10:19 AM
PikeDawg15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Homedawg

And we will never be a great football program. Just what it is. To say would shouldn't have built the new dude is just stupid.

This way of thinking is holding us back.
11-13-2022, 10:21 AM
PikeDawg15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saltydog

You don't spend your way outta debt. We could've put that money into football and we'd still be exactly where we are now. It is what it is and it's not going to change. The sooner some of you relegate to that fact the happier, healthier life you can live.

Hey Larry Templeton I found ya!
11-13-2022, 10:28 AM
Quaoarsking

I fundamentally reject the idea that Leach or Mullen are mediocre or that 7-5 is the best the program can ever do. If we are going to take the next step and become an 8-4 program, we need an above average coach, and I am skeptical that the next coach would be any better.

We are a "7-5 program" but none of the other have nots in the SEC are, not consistently yet. Ole Miss, Arkansas, Kentucky, etc., haven't had the consistency over 13 years that Mullen built and Leach maintained.
11-13-2022, 10:39 AM
Goldendawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Todd4State

The difference is Leach has a good track record with patience.

Statistically our offense has been as good or better than most of Dan's. And that's with a p**** playing QB. Georgia was allowing like 10 PPG coming into tonight. We scored 13.

I want to see what Leach can do with a different QB and 4-5 classes of receivers.

You can say he isn't changing but then we have Chris Parson as a QB recruit.

Most very good WR's want to play in an exciting O that stretches the field now and then. We do not offer anything close to this at this time. Most good RB's like to run the ball a lot. Both these are issues at present and probably hurt recruiting at both positions.
11-13-2022, 10:41 AM
Quaoarsking

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goldendawg

Most very good WR's want to play in an exciting O that stretches the field now and then. We do not offer anything close to this at this time. Most good RB's like to run the ball a lot. Both these are issues at present and probably hurt recruiting at both positions.

We probably would if we had an NFL-type receiver like Michael Crabtree though.
11-13-2022, 10:48 AM
Ranchdawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saltydog

You don't spend your way outta debt. We could've put that money into football and we'd still be exactly where we are now. It is what it is and it's not going to change. The sooner some of you relegate to that fact the happier, healthier life you can live.

I totally disagree! Ole Miss is a example I’ll use because they are in our state and their coach was hired at aprox same time. They are at least competitive with the have’s of our conference see yesterday’s game vs Bama. Did our team look that competitive against Bama. NO ole miss has used the transfer portal used NIL have coaches that actually coach not afraid to change QBs not afraid of the team they are playing. According to Leech some of our players were afraid of Bama when we played them.

Why play the game with mind set of we’ll always be who we are. That rationale is exactly why we are where we are. Why not demand excellence. Why not even try to better ourselves. What is the problem with demanding coaches do what they are paid a bunch of money to do is win football games and win the conference and or championships.

Think if we had this mind set in baseball. We would have never won a Natty. Never

This same attitude prevails in our whole state. And maybe that’s why we are last in just about everything.
11-13-2022, 10:51 AM
DownwardDawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by memsu06

I have found a coach for y'all. Availability coming this season.

Has won a national championship.

Known for his extensive offense.

Known for developing QBs.

Recruited the #1 class in the nation.

Jimbo Fisher!!

That's a great idea Mr Cohen!! He's also known as the worst coach in the SEC! He'd fit right in!
11-13-2022, 10:51 AM
Quaoarsking

If Ole Miss can keep Kiffin and maintain this new elevated level for the next decade, then good for him. However, I suspect that they'll be back to "less than a 7-5 program" next year without Kiffin and we'll win more games during the Mullen-Leach Era than they do over the same time frame.

I could be wrong, but I bet I won't be.
11-13-2022, 10:56 AM
CadaverDawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cowbell

Anybody that thinks time is going to fix this doesn't understand the game of football on a complex level. It would take an epiphany of epiphanies for leach to realize what he needs to do to improve his scheme and make it work against good teams consistently. It ain't happening. The man hasn't changed in 25 years.

You pay a coach to do the best he can with what he has. And he could do much better.

Bingo
11-13-2022, 11:00 AM
Really Clark?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quaoarsking

I fundamentally reject the idea that Leach or Mullen are mediocre or that 7-5 is the best the program can ever do. If we are going to take the next step and become an 8-4 program, we need an above average coach, and I am skeptical that the next coach would be any better.

We are a "7-5 program" but none of the other have nots in the SEC are, not consistently yet. Ole Miss, Arkansas, Kentucky, etc., haven't had the consistency over 13 years that Mullen built and Leach maintained.

Then under that criteria Mullen was pretty close for you then, his first 4 years he averaged 7.25 wins a season building the program, then averaged 8 wins over his next 5 years. (8.2 if you include the 2017 bowl game he didn't coach).
11-13-2022, 11:00 AM
CadaverDawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by msstate7

Fine.

Mullen 69-46 (.600)
In sec 33-39 (.458)

Leach 17-17 (.500)
In sec 10-15 (.400)

If mullen wasn't good, leach really sucks

Yep
11-13-2022, 11:01 AM
Goldendawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by DownwardDawg

Mullen was sooooo close to being that special coach for MSU. He showed what State is capable of if he had given more effort. Better recruiting and play calling and not job searching and he would have played in the SEC championship game a couple of times.

Tell me again what his record was against Top 25 teams. We never finished strong after his annual loss to bama, job search, and not having team ready for OM in his last few years. His failure at UF was predicted here by many including the very time frame it would take.
11-13-2022, 11:06 AM
DownwardDawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goldendawg

Tell me again what his record was against Top 25 teams. We never finished strong after his annual loss to bama, job search, and not having team ready for OM in his last few years. His failure at UF was predicted here by many including the very time frame it would take.

Read my post again. You just agreed with my post. And I was one of the first posters on this board to predict his failure at Florida. He was lazy by that time and wouldn't recruit. But if you read my post you would see I pointed that out.

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