I?ll never forgive MOORHEAD

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08-09-2022, 09:43 PM
Coach34

One of the worst coaching jobs I can remember
08-09-2022, 09:45 PM
Coach34

Quote:

Originally Posted by schddog72

Hate to burst your optimistic bubble and cloud your maroon colored glasses, but 7-5 is a hard cap for this team; more likely 6-6 because Leach usually loses at least one game he should win. Don't be surprised at 5-7 based on strength of schedule. After all, we ARE Mississippi State.

This is one of the best teams Leach has ever coached. 7-5 will be extremely disappointing.

We wont beat Bama but should play Georgia well with a possible chance to win in the 4th. Other than that- we may not be favored in a few others but we certainly can win them. Should be an 8-9 win team with an outside shot at 10
08-09-2022, 10:43 PM
KOdawg1

In 2018, 8 games was the absolute minimum that the team was capable of winning. Like, 8 wins was the floor, and Moorhead found it.
08-09-2022, 11:14 PM
HoopsDawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by KOdawg1

In 2018, 8 games was the absolute minimum that the team was capable of winning. Like, 8 wins was the floor, and Moorhead found it.

8-5 with that fckn defense. I still can't believe it.
08-10-2022, 08:21 AM
TrapGame

Quote:

Originally Posted by KOdawg1

In 2018, 8 games was the absolute minimum that the team was capable of winning. Like, 8 wins was the floor, and Moorhead found it.

And had it not been for Hud, Jones, and the RB coach pushing him to scheme with what he had it would have been less than 8 wins.
08-10-2022, 03:40 PM
R2Dawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by KOdawg1

In 2018, 8 games was the absolute minimum that the team was capable of winning. Like, 8 wins was the floor, and Moorhead found it.

TBH, I think 10 was the floor - UK and UF should have never been an L. Moorhead went below the floor. He could have run QB draw every play and beat those two.
08-10-2022, 05:04 PM
lastmajordog

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach34

One of the worst coaching jobs I can remember

Thank you C34.....
08-10-2022, 07:19 PM
Coach34

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrapGame

And had it not been for Hud, Jones, and the RB coach pushing him to scheme with what he had it would have been less than 8 wins.

correction- Johnson not Jones. Dont slight my boy.

And as was told to me- Moorhead said after Auburn "I'm not going to run that shit I dont care if we dont win another game. We are going to run what I want win or lose"

And that people- is why coaches get fired.
08-10-2022, 07:48 PM
TrapGame

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach34

correction- Johnson not Jones. Dont slight my boy.

And as was told to me- Moorhead said after Auburn "I'm not going to run that shit I dont care if we dont win another game. We are going to run what I want win or lose"

And that people- is why coaches get fired.

I was thinking Jones the ST coach back then. He was the former head coach of UAB or something. Could have been Johnson in there too. There were a bunch of people pissed at Moorhead and his hardheaded bullshit.
08-10-2022, 07:55 PM
Coach34

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrapGame

I was thinking Jones the ST coach back then. He was the former head coach of UAB or something. Could have been Johnson in there too. There were a bunch of people pissed at Moorhead and his hardheaded bullshit.

Marcus Johnson was the OL coach and he and Hud were very vocal about it.
08-10-2022, 08:57 PM
confucius say

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheewgumm

People who reply to this and say we really weren?t that good are high.

Our defense was easily the best in the nation. I think we have up 12 TDs all year and lost 5 games. Ridiculous.

Moorhead personally lost the Kentucky and LSU game. Ante monkey could have won those games wi the our team.

Against Kentucky he let their DE sack our QB?what? 5 times? No help for our tackle. Then threw it 50 times on the rain.

The one time he did right, we stomped Auburn. He then went back to his own thoughts and we lost that crap taste fame at LSU. He?s so dumb.

He was brain dead. Actually he was trying to prove a point to our detriment.

His comment about acting like he had the 85 Bears is dumb?HE DID have the 85 Bears ( relatively speaking).

The only comfort I get is how he could have had a successful head coaching career if he had just listened. Instead he didn?t and is a failure - rightfully so.

Dang. Preach
08-10-2022, 08:59 PM
confucius say

Quote:

Originally Posted by R2Dawg

They were basically the college version. We were #1 or 2 in like 20+ defensive categories. We were dominant on D.

There is no excuse for where we are now. Most are expecting a big year and it should be. If CML can coach, he should win 9 at least. He is playing a lot of teams with less talent than he has, no excuse. This year's D ain't 2018, but it potentially could be the best since 18.

If you believe in recruiting rankings, we are the least talented team in the west.
08-10-2022, 09:02 PM
confucius say

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach34

This is one of the best teams Leach has ever coached. 7-5 will be extremely disappointing.

We wont beat Bama but should play Georgia well with a possible chance to win in the 4th. Other than that- we may not be favored in a few others but we certainly can win them. Should be an 8-9 win team with an outside shot at 10

Why do you say we should play uga well? They are the #2 overall recruiter and we are like 27.
08-10-2022, 09:22 PM
Coach34

Quote:

Originally Posted by confucius say

Why do you say we should play uga well? They are the #2 overall recruiter and we are like 27.

They are talented- no doubt. They lost alot of players and are lacking experience. Experience matters. We are a developmental program and when we are a veteran team we are always pretty good. 2010 won 9 games. 2014 we contended for the NC. 2018 we were loaded and Moorhead ruined it. Now it's 2022. We will be very good and are at home. Georgia better come to play

Ken Griffey Jr was hell at 9 years old- but alot of 12 year olds were still better because of maturity even tho they didnt make it to MLB. Georgia lost alot of defensive players and while talented- they have alot of inexperience out there. Supposedly the Air Raid takes advantage of shit like that. Advantage us
08-11-2022, 12:05 AM
MedDawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maroonthirteen

Kentucky won 10 games that year. One of their best teams ever.

Florida was a bad loss but players didn't execute well that game. We had a chance to win with a catch here or there.

We most certainly lost the Iowa game because of defense. Busted assignments for an easy TD. Willie gay throat slashing to extend a drive. Then when we really needed a stop. Iowa marched down the field on the 85 bears to run out of the clock.

I'm not saying Moorhead was some genius. That music city bowl was ridiculous. But the 2018 season isn't entirely on him. Players have to make plays.

Florida also won 10 games. State had a difficult schedule in 2018. Both of the East teams we played won 10 games.
08-11-2022, 01:07 AM
Todd4State

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach34

They are talented- no doubt. They lost alot of players and are lacking experience. Experience matters. We are a developmental program and when we are a veteran team we are always pretty good. 2010 won 9 games. 2014 we contended for the NC. 2018 we were loaded and Moorhead ruined it. Now it's 2022. We will be very good and are at home. Georgia better come to play

Ken Griffey Jr was hell at 9 years old- but alot of 12 year olds were still better because of maturity even tho they didnt make it to MLB. Georgia lost alot of defensive players and while talented- they have alot of inexperience out there. Supposedly the Air Raid takes advantage of shit like that. Advantage us

That's exactly the key for us- having veteran teams. Which is why I would get so frustrated at Mullen for neglecting position groups like WR and OL causing us to be young at times. And that's a big reason why I think his ceiling was limited here. He was way too arrogant to make sure that didn't happen.
08-11-2022, 07:19 AM
Duckdog

Losing games usually doesn't make me lose it but after going to the LSU game that idiot coached OH MY GOD
08-11-2022, 07:29 AM
NCMSTFAN

I'm going to get backlash from this but I'm not the Moorhead basher like the majority of you are. He wasn't a great fit, I'll admit that but how good was that team really going to be regardless? Yes we had a strong defense, very strong, but that team was put together by Mullen and what Mullen does, especially offensively. Fitzgerald was a Tight End playing QB, he could run for days but wasn't a very accurate passer. Its hard to win alot of games like that if that's not your coaching style. Looking in a two year window (because that's how long Moorhead coached), here are our results:

2016 Mullen: 6-7
2017 Mullen: 9-4
2018 Moorhead: 8-5
2019 Moorhead: 6-7
2020 Leach: 4-7
2021 Leach: 7-6

Mullen's magical year was 2014 with Dak Prescott, but other than that we won 7 to 9 games per year which is close to what Moorhead did. Again, Moorhead was not a good fit, but this notion that he came in and literally ruined the program just isn't true. I personally don't think Leach is a great fit, his style just doesn't fit in the SEC and if he doesn't make some offensive changes this season we are going to get embarrassed by some teams, that 5 yard dink and dunk pass game got exposed really quick
08-11-2022, 07:55 AM
FISHDAWG

Quote:

Originally Posted by NCMSTFAN

I'm going to get backlash from this but I'm not the Moorhead basher like the majority of you are. He wasn't a great fit, I'll admit that but how good was that team really going to be regardless? Yes we had a strong defense, very strong, but that team was put together by Mullen and what Mullen does, especially offensively. Fitzgerald was a Tight End playing QB, he could run for days but wasn't a very accurate passer. Its hard to win alot of games like that if that's not your coaching style. Looking in a two year window (because that's how long Moorhead coached), here are our results:

2016 Mullen: 6-7
2017 Mullen: 9-4
2018 Moorhead: 8-5
2019 Moorhead: 6-7
2020 Leach: 4-7
2021 Leach: 7-6

Mullen's magical year was 2014 with Dak Prescott, but other than that we won 7 to 9 games per year which is close to what Moorhead did. Again, Moorhead was not a good fit, but this notion that he came in and literally ruined the program just isn't true. I personally don't think Leach is a great fit, his style just doesn't fit in the SEC and if he doesn't make some offensive changes this season we are going to get embarrassed by some teams, that 5 yard dink and dunk pass game got exposed really quick

Can you not see the progression of 2016-2017- to what may have happened with a 2018 Mullen coached team. I tend to believe that there would have been a falloff in 2019 regardless of who was coaching but Joe killed that team and left the scraps to Leach ... Don't forget the attrition we had under year one of Leach and I do blame Moorhead for letting team / player discipline getting to that point. Neither Mullen or Leach inherited the team & talent that Moorhead did. There just is NO EXCUSE that JoMo can fall back on ... he was a fake ... has MSU ever fired a coach after only two years?
08-11-2022, 08:23 AM
NCMSTFAN

Quote:

Originally Posted by FISHDAWG

Can you not see the progression of 2016-2017- to what may have happened with a 2018 Mullen coached team. I tend to believe that there would have been a falloff in 2019 regardless of who was coaching but Joe killed that team and left the scraps to Leach ... Don't forget the attrition we had under year one of Leach and I do blame Moorhead for letting team / player discipline getting to that point. Neither Mullen or Leach inherited the team & talent that Moorhead did. There just is NO EXCUSE that JoMo can fall back on ... he was a fake ... has MSU ever fired a coach after only two years?

I agree with you on the player discipline issues, Moorhead lacked in that department, and that's partly why I say he wasn't a good fit. But the "what may have been" argument just doesn't do it for me.... its not like we are a 10 plus win team every season in playoff discussion year in and year out. We are all upset about a potentially magical 2018 defense that everyone still hangs their hat on. It just makes no sense to me, no matter who was coaching nothing was promised that year.... we don't have the football winning tradition and proven coaching history like Bama, Clemson, OSU, Georgia etc. to feel like that. And there's two sides of the ball, as good as Fitzgerald was he probably wasn't leading us to the playoffs no matter who the coach was.
08-11-2022, 08:35 AM
TrapGame

Quote:

Originally Posted by NCMSTFAN

I agree with you on the player discipline issues, Moorhead lacked in that department, and that's partly why I say he wasn't a good fit. But the "what may have been" argument just doesn't do it for me.... its not like we are a 10 plus win team every season in playoff discussion year in and year out. We are all upset about a potentially magical 2018 defense that everyone still hangs their hat on. It just makes no sense to me, no matter who was coaching nothing was promised that year.... we don't have the football winning tradition and proven coaching history like Bama, Clemson, OSU, Georgia etc. to feel like that. And there's two sides of the ball, as good as Fitzgerald was he probably wasn't leading us to the playoffs no matter who the coach was.

We weren't a playoff team but we could have won 10 games that year. We were built to have a really good season on both sides of the ball.
08-11-2022, 08:41 AM
FISHDAWG

Quote:

Originally Posted by NCMSTFAN

I agree with you on the player discipline issues, Moorhead lacked in that department, and that's partly why I say he wasn't a good fit. But the "what may have been" argument just doesn't do it for me.... its not like we are a 10 plus win team every season in playoff discussion year in and year out. We are all upset about a potentially magical 2018 defense that everyone still hangs their hat on. It just makes no sense to me, no matter who was coaching nothing was promised that year.... we don't have the football winning tradition and proven coaching history like Bama, Clemson, OSU, Georgia etc. to feel like that. And there's two sides of the ball, as good as Fitzgerald was he probably wasn't leading us to the playoffs no matter who the coach was.

not saying we would have won a National Championship in 2018 ... I'm saying we were a 10 win team (maybe 11 win) and JoMo blew it.... As C-34 stated earlier, look at our 4 year pattern - 2010, 2014, 2018 (what might have been) and now 2022 (good expectations) .... I agree we are not known for being an offensive juggernaut but when we have the talet + good coaching then good things happen ... JoMo was like a roadblock to that in 2018
08-11-2022, 09:01 AM
THE Bruce Dickinson

Quote:

Originally Posted by mparkerfd20

Agreed. Worse than the Croom hire which was the 2nd worst hire in the history of college football.

Moorhead makes people like you delusional.

He wasn't the greatest coach, but comparing him to Croom is asinine. in Croom's 5 years here, we were pitiful.

I think everyone's "He was a great guy" mindset has clouded people's minds about how terrible of a coach he was. We were probably the worst Power 5 team in the nation in 2004.
08-11-2022, 09:17 AM
NCMSTFAN

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrapGame

We weren't a playoff team but we could have won 10 games that year. We were built to have a really good season on both sides of the ball.

So say that's true, a 10 year win season vs an 8 year win season. Those two wins wouldn't have changed the trajectory of our program. Its just weird to me to hear people saying things like Moorhead ruined our program and we were destined for greatness when in all reality we pretty much stayed on par of a typical MSU football team and that's just being honest.
08-11-2022, 09:22 AM
NCMSTFAN

Quote:

Originally Posted by FISHDAWG

not saying we would have won a National Championship in 2018 ... I'm saying we were a 10 win team (maybe 11 win) and JoMo blew it.... As C-34 stated earlier, look at our 4 year pattern - 2010, 2014, 2018 (what might have been) and now 2022 (good expectations) .... I agree we are not known for being an offensive juggernaut but when we have the talet + good coaching then good things happen ... JoMo was like a roadblock to that in 2018

I understand your points but come on man, the title of this thread is "I'll never forgive Moorhead"....... are we really that delusional as fans to act like he completely dismantled our program to a place it can't come back from when in all actuality he stayed on par with the type of winning/losing we are accustomed to at MSU? It's just kinda overboard in my opinion, we weren't winning a NC that year regardless.
08-11-2022, 09:26 AM
TrapGame

Quote:

Originally Posted by NCMSTFAN

So say that's true, a 10 year win season vs an 8 year win season. Those two wins wouldn't have changed the trajectory of our program. Its just weird to me to hear people saying things like Moorhead ruined our program and we were destined for greatness when in all reality we pretty much stayed on par of a typical MSU football team and that's just being honest.

Well, he did ruin our program. And it's weird for me that some people can't see that. We had a spread offense designed for a power run w/ short passes to keep the defense honest.
08-11-2022, 09:38 AM
DownwardDawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by NCMSTFAN

So say that's true, a 10 year win season vs an 8 year win season. Those two wins wouldn't have changed the trajectory of our program. Its just weird to me to hear people saying things like Moorhead ruined our program and we were destined for greatness when in all reality we pretty much stayed on par of a typical MSU football team and that's just being honest.

Mullen or a similar mindset coach would have easily won 10 games. I believe Mullen would have won 11 games that year. That's a playoff team. Probably would have gotten beat in the first round, but with the nations #1 defense, who knows.
08-11-2022, 09:40 AM
confucius say

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach34

They are talented- no doubt. They lost alot of players and are lacking experience. Experience matters. We are a developmental program and when we are a veteran team we are always pretty good. 2010 won 9 games. 2014 we contended for the NC. 2018 we were loaded and Moorhead ruined it. Now it's 2022. We will be very good and are at home. Georgia better come to play

Ken Griffey Jr was hell at 9 years old- but alot of 12 year olds were still better because of maturity even tho they didnt make it to MLB. Georgia lost alot of defensive players and while talented- they have alot of inexperience out there. Supposedly the Air Raid takes advantage of shit like that. Advantage us

Hope so.
08-11-2022, 09:45 AM
FISHDAWG

Quote:

Originally Posted by NCMSTFAN

I understand your points but come on man, the title of this thread is "I'll never forgive Moorhead"....... are we really that delusional as fans to act like he completely dismantled our program to a place it can't come back from when in all actuality he stayed on par with the type of winning/losing we are accustomed to at MSU? It's just kinda overboard in my opinion, we weren't winning a NC that year regardless.

I'll buy that ... I don't hold animosity against JoMo - I keep pulling for him at the other schools. And yes he didn't "destroy" our program - just our occasional chance at a really good year to be proud of. But that was 4 years ago and we are just now recovering ... not to mention we just don't have that many chances at a really good year and we hate to lose even one of those chances ... here's to hoping Leach can give us more consistency
08-11-2022, 09:46 AM
confucius say

Quote:

Originally Posted by NCMSTFAN

I agree with you on the player discipline issues, Moorhead lacked in that department, and that's partly why I say he wasn't a good fit. But the "what may have been" argument just doesn't do it for me.... its not like we are a 10 plus win team every season in playoff discussion year in and year out. We are all upset about a potentially magical 2018 defense that everyone still hangs their hat on. It just makes no sense to me, no matter who was coaching nothing was promised that year.... we don't have the football winning tradition and proven coaching history like Bama, Clemson, OSU, Georgia etc. to feel like that. And there's two sides of the ball, as good as Fitzgerald was he probably wasn't leading us to the playoffs no matter who the coach was.

Joe took over a team ready to win big with the best defense in the country. He could have not thrown a pass more than 5 yards down field and went 9-3. Probably 10-2. Maybe 11-1.

Leach took over the dumpster fire Joe left off the field and ushered in an entirely new system that was contrary to what we have done for 120 years.
08-11-2022, 09:48 AM
confucius say

Quote:

Originally Posted by THE Bruce Dickinson

Moorhead makes people like you delusional.

He wasn't the greatest coach, but comparing him to Croom is asinine. in Croom's 5 years here, we were pitiful.

I think everyone's "He was a great guy" mindset has clouded people's minds about how terrible of a coach he was. We were probably the worst Power 5 team in the nation in 2004.

Croom would have went 8-4 or better in 2018. He would have ran the ball all the time and played defense, which is what that team was built to do.
08-11-2022, 09:52 AM
confucius say

Quote:

Originally Posted by NCMSTFAN

So say that's true, a 10 year win season vs an 8 year win season. Those two wins wouldn't have changed the trajectory of our program. Its just weird to me to hear people saying things like Moorhead ruined our program and we were destined for greatness when in all reality we pretty much stayed on par of a typical MSU football team and that's just being honest.

He killed our culture. Zero accountability, soft, horrible S&C, off field train wreck, security called to hotel the night before games. It was a crap show because he didn't hold anybody accountable. He had a freaking S&C guy who looked like a soft marshmallow.

The only reason he didn't completely ruin the program was because he was fired in the middle of doing so.
08-11-2022, 09:56 AM
THE Bruce Dickinson

Quote:

Originally Posted by confucius say

Croom would have went 8-4 or better in 2018. He would have ran the ball all the time and played defense, which is what that team was built to do.

He would have ran the ball up the middle 3 times in a row and punted. We would have routinely lost games 9-0 with our 150 yards of total offense- which we did all the time.
08-11-2022, 10:05 AM
confucius say

Quote:

Originally Posted by THE Bruce Dickinson

He would have ran the ball up the middle 3 times in a row and punted. We would have routinely lost games 9-0 with our 150 yards of total offense- which we did all the time.

Not with an all pro center in Jenkins, a veteran good OL, the best running qb in sec history, an nfl rb, and Aries. Running every play would have been better than what Joe was doing. Joe had 200 yards of offense against KY and Fla. Croom could have done that.
We wouldn't have thrown 4 picks at lsu and given them the game.

I'm no Croom defender, but given the same 2018 team as Joe and the best defense in America, I think he could have went 8-4 like Joe.
08-11-2022, 10:33 AM
TrapGame

Quote:

Originally Posted by confucius say

Not with an all pro center in Jenkins, a veteran good OL, the best running qb in sec history, an nfl rb, and Aries. Running every play would have been better than what Joe was doing. Joe had 200 yards of offense against KY and Fla. Croom could have done that.
We wouldn't have thrown 4 picks at lsu and given them the game.

I'm no Croom defender, but given the same 2018 team as Joe and the best defense in America, I think he could have went 8-4 like Joe.

Croom was as hardheaded as Joe. Whatever you think he would have done, he wouldn't have. He would have run that West Coast cluster of a offense.
08-11-2022, 10:50 AM
StarkVegasSteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by confucius say

Croom would have went 8-4 or better in 2018. He would have ran the ball all the time and played defense, which is what that team was built to do.

Croom would have went 7-6 or 8-5. Stoops, Mullen, Saban, O, and Jimbo would have coached circles around him. Hell this is the same guy who let Derek Dooley, Houston Nutt, and Rich Brooks coach circles around him in 2008. Not exactly hall of fame level coaches

Actually come to think of it there is no way possible would have won 7 with Croom in 18
08-11-2022, 11:45 AM
NCMSTFAN

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrapGame

Well, he did ruin our program. And it's weird for me that some people can't see that. We had a spread offense designed for a power run w/ short passes to keep the defense honest.

He ruined our program? So let me get this straight...he stayed on par with the average winning percentage that we have sustained for the last 15 years or so, but he ruined our program? Why are some of you acting like we've been a top 3 SEC football team for the last 20 years? Moorhead did not ruin our program, he wasn't a good fit and had disciplinary issues but that's a far cry from ruining a program.
08-11-2022, 11:47 AM
NCMSTFAN

Quote:

Originally Posted by FISHDAWG

I'll buy that ... I don't hold animosity against JoMo - I keep pulling for him at the other schools. And yes he didn't "destroy" our program - just our occasional chance at a really good year to be proud of. But that was 4 years ago and we are just now recovering ... not to mention we just don't have that many chances at a really good year and we hate to lose even one of those chances ... here's to hoping Leach can give us more consistency

Good post and I agree with that
08-11-2022, 11:50 AM
NCMSTFAN

Quote:

Originally Posted by confucius say

Joe took over a team ready to win big with the best defense in the country. He could have not thrown a pass more than 5 yards down field and went 9-3. Probably 10-2. Maybe 11-1.

Leach took over the dumpster fire Joe left off the field and ushered in an entirely new system that was contrary to what we have done for 120 years.

Leach had mostly all of his guys last year and will have that again this year, lets just wait and see what happens. I personally don't have any more faith in Leach and this system than most of you had in Moorhead. I believe Leach's teams are more disciplined but I'm nowhere near sold on Leach. In my opinion this is the year for him to prove something. I don't want to hear the tough schedule excuse either.
08-11-2022, 11:55 AM
NCMSTFAN

Quote:

Originally Posted by confucius say

He killed our culture. Zero accountability, soft, horrible S&C, off field train wreck, security called to hotel the night before games. It was a crap show because he didn't hold anybody accountable. He had a freaking S&C guy who looked like a soft marshmallow.

The only reason he didn't completely ruin the program was because he was fired in the middle of doing so.

I agree..... with all that said, that means he ruined our program? Some of you are overly dramatic about that. Again, he wasn't an ideal fit, but how can you ruin a middle to low of the pack SEC team by pretty much winning the same amount of games that your prior peer coaches won? He had cultural issues, that's his knock....but that's not ruining a program

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