That may be true, can't under estimate the impact of our pitching mess this year.Quote:
Originally Posted by confucius say
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That may be true, can't under estimate the impact of our pitching mess this year.Quote:
Originally Posted by confucius say
When used properly. This current team had a collective NIL deal that was $1000 a month for 10 months for every player.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawg2003
Don?t you dare bring common sense to this argument.Quote:
Originally Posted by confucius say
Teams lose pitchers all the time, every year. This year Arkansas lost the Ace. In 2021, MSU only had 1 weekend guy still pitching well by Omaha and only 1 starting pitcher from Arlington still going. Also 2021, the 8th inning and closer we're done within the first month. Even Bama lost their Ace and still made the SECT.Quote:
Originally Posted by confucius say
We weren't winning games before those injuries. Maybe things come together later, but our pen and staff was shaky as hell no matter what. The hitting was never where it should've been production wise (clutch). We still had a bad OF defensively. Struggled to get SS settled. Maybe we make the tournament and slide into a regional somewhere. But we were still going to max out at a bubble team in all likelihood.
Except it isn't common sense. Almost EVERY team loses pitchers to injury, and they still don't automatically end up as the worst team in the SEC. This whole "is we didn't lost Sims and Simmons we'd have made the SEC tournament" misses the context, that in baseball this happens often to everyoneQuote:
Originally Posted by Hambone
Landon Sims was 0-2 this year on the mound. We would have still lost Friday night gamesQuote:
Originally Posted by Hambone
Self nor price were the closer. That was obvious after Tulane 2021.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Federalist Engineer
Regardless, identify for me a team that lost its Friday night all American and top two bullpen arms and its third best pen arm for half the season. It's no wonder our offense was fine and pitching was the problem.
We were 0-2 bc we couldn't score early in the year vs atrocious teams. We ended up one of the top offenses in the league per you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
Sims era was 1.15 and his whip was .87.
You cant say the offense was fine and the pitching was the problem, which you said, and then ignore we lost our Friday all American, best pen arm, second best pen arm, and third best pen arm for half the season.
No it doesn't. Tell me another team that is in the tourney that lost its Friday night all American with a 1.15 era and .86 whip, it's best pen arm who hadn't given up a baserunner on the season, it's second best pen arm with a 3.05 era, and it's fourth best pen arm for half the season. Not to mention a guy who started 3 weekend games.Quote:
Originally Posted by the_real_MSU_is_us
Our offense was better than 2021. The problem was pitching. And people are totally discounting having the most injury-ravaged staff in the league and likely the country. We lost double digit games after being tied or having the lead in the 7th. That's no coincidence.
Texas lost a lot of pitching and are playing for a championship. TN didn't miss a beat when their guys were out. AR is still going without some pitching. LSU has dealt with pitching injuries. Oregon State has a lot injuries and still going. Our pen was thin as hell and we only had one proven starter no matter injuries. Outside of Sims and Johnson we really had no proven performers.
Which gets back to those programs had done a better job of recruiting and development then us over the past couple of years. Neither side in this argument are wrong - our recruiting and development in pitching has not been strong beyond our top line guys. If your top line guys go down, then those problems with R & D are highlighted. If our top line guys had not gone down, we likely make the post season - especially since our offense was one of the better ones in the league. We may not have been quite as clutch, but because of the pitching problems we were always having to play from behind - which made the times we didn't come thru with needed hits more visible and critical.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooterpoot
I agree. We would be better with those players. But, we had issues no matter what. We just have no real idea how the team might have come together but our pitching was going to be thin. Fristoe, Tepper, Walling were all counted on and none were good. Stone? Who knows how he goes. Cade did an adequate job but seem to hit the wall late because we had no pen. But no real 3rd starter (which seems to be a Foxhall regularity).
Did those teams you listed lose their Friday all American guy, top pen arm, second pen arm, third pen arm for half the season, and a guy who started 3 weekend games? If not, the comparison isn't the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooterpoot
Nobody is saying we go back to Omaha with all those guys, but we would be in the tournament just like 14-16 Vandy, which was my point. And we'd have a shot in a regional with sims, Johnson, and Cade starting with Simmons and augur added to the pen. We would still have holes no doubt, primarily LH pitching.
THIS ^
Is Nate Chester the next 2baseman? looks to have good size and some pop in the stick
Poor take here. We would?ve won a ton on Friday night with Sims and him being 0-2 is absurdly irrelevant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
That said, we?ve recruited poor athletes, especially on the mound. The evaluations have been poor and the tinkering of pitching mechanics, attempting to create more vertical rise, has destroyed some of our guy?s strike throwing ability, which should always be the number 1 concern.
The coaches have to evaluate better and not try to clone players.
Tennessee keeps it simple and is the most aggressive/tampering program in the country right now.
Multiple things are true here.
- Losing Sims obviously hurt terribly.
- The lack of decent depth behind him is a massive failure by the staff.
He is actually very correct. We were 4-6 in Friday night SEC games. In all but one of those losses we scored 2 or less runs. Sims on Fridays would have won us the Friday aTm game and that's it. Going Johnny Wholestaff on Fridays, Sims on Saturday and Cade on Sunday would have gotten us to the SEC tourney and probably the NCAA tourney too but the fact remains our staff was far from deep enough to win a tournament.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg
Looks like it. #3 prospect in MO, signed with Mo out of high school, tore his shoulder up and they brought in someone else and were slow playing him. He transferred to John Logan. Has 3 years of eligibility left…Quote:
Originally Posted by Pancho
We haven't recruited coast to coast and we've been getting too many mama's boys.
Maybe, but I'm always hesitant with Juco hitters. Yeah, he might be a Nate Lowe or Jack Kruger, but he also might be a Gunner Halter or Tanner Poole. You just never know.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pancho
We have MSU Alumni in place at EBC and East Coast Sox. We have also got several from Dulins Dodgers since Bianco pissed them off.
SEC Fridays:Quote:
Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg
Shutout by Georgia
Beat Bama 7-6
Scored 1 vs UPig
Scored 2 vs LSU
Beat Auburn 7-6
Scored 2 vs Mississippi
Beat Mizzou 13-4
Lost 8-6 to Fla
Lost 8-7 to A&M
Scored 2 vs Tenn
Sims only real impact on Fridays would have likely been in the Florida and A&M games. We might have been able to scratch out one of the others in very low scoring game but you never know. He would have more than likely lost at least 4 Fridays and probably 5. We were 3-7 on Fridays- with him 6-4 is best case with 5-5 more likely.
This is definitely trueQuote:
Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg
The staff agrees with you on the last part. There is a big emphasis being placed on recruiting toughness right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bothrops
Even if that played out like that it would have helped us win other games because Brandon Smith would have been our midweek guy/swing guy in the bullpen making us deeper meaning less high leverage situations for guys like Fristoe and Tepper. And that doesn't even take into account Stone Simmons and for the last half of the year- Auger. It's a domino effect. Especially considering we had a ton of 1-2 run losses. I'm guessing we would have at least 5-7 more wins with even half of the injuries we had.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
This season’s chances was going to live and die with Landon Sims from the start.
On even making a regional. We just don’t he the sticks to make up for that even if he wins half his starts in league play.
A&M got transfers from all over and won the West. Thats coaching from a guy we wouldnt commit to. He has shown his recruiting prowess immediately- unlike our coach.
It's just really frustrating to see our staff waste a Natty like this one has. It's mind-blowing[/QUOTE]
His interview was a disaster....he was concerned about the country club and shopping for his wife and Cohen felt he wasn't a fit culturally...it ended pretty quickly
I think we make a regional if Simmons stays healthy and we have either Hunt or Auger healthy all year even with Sims being injured. Our starting pitching wasn't nearly as bad as the relief pitching. And I know their ERA's aren't pretty but they were constantly left in too long.Quote:
Originally Posted by Schultzy
His interview was a disaster....he was concerned about the country club and shopping for his wife and Cohen felt he wasn't a fit culturally...it ended pretty quickly[/QUOTE]Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezsoil
That's not what happened with Schlossnagle. TCU pressed him to make a decision while our season was still going on and then Schlossnagle tried to force Cohen to make an announcement while we were still playing in Omaha because of that and it rubbed Cohen the wrong way. Cohen made the right decision there- 100%. Announcing Schlossnagle would have been very unfair to our team and Gary Henderson.
Let's not forget that Lemonis has a National Title and Schlossnagle doesn't- despite more appearances in Omaha. I'll take Lemonis with a different pitching coach over Schlossnagle any day. We're going to get to see what Lemonis can do with transfers next year. And I think we'll be happy with his recruiting once the 2023 class starts the season in 2024.
That's not what happened with Schlossnagle. TCU pressed him to make a decision while our season was still going on and then Schlossnagle tried to force Cohen to make an announcement while we were still playing in Omaha because of that and it rubbed Cohen the wrong way. Cohen made the right decision there- 100%. Announcing Schlossnagle would have been very unfair to our team and Gary Henderson.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
Let's not forget that Lemonis has a National Title and Schlossnagle doesn't- despite more appearances in Omaha. I'll take Lemonis with a different pitching coach over Schlossnagle any day. We're going to get to see what Lemonis can do with transfers next year. And I think we'll be happy with his recruiting once the 2023 class starts the season in 2024.[/QUOTE]
Everyone has complained about our recruiting footprint but those classes have players from coast to coast. We have multiple commits from CA in the next few classes. Has that ever happened? Highly rated commits from TX and FL, so we are dipping into the hotbed states where players have the option of staying home and playing for good baseball schools, but we have pulled them. We just need to limp along and keep our heads above water for the next couple years until we can start rolling those type players in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlSwearengen
Everyone has complained about our recruiting footprint but those classes have players from coast to coast. We have multiple commits from CA in the next few classes. Has that ever happened? Highly rated commits from TX and FL, so we are dipping into the hotbed states where players have the option of staying home and playing for good baseball schools, but we have pulled them. We just need to limp along and keep our heads above water for the next couple years until we can start rolling those type players in.[/QUOTE]
I agree. Our recruiting footprint isn't bad. Mississippi produces a lot of MLB players per capita- we're top five as a state in fact. The problem is our population isn't large enough to support a National Championship caliber team with Mississippians alone so we do have to go to the hot bed states to supplement our team.
Our strategy should be to get the best in Mississippi and then supplement from there. Louisiana is also top five or six as well. And Memphis and Alabama are close enough to give us some players too. And also get what we can from the hot bed states.
We need to get away from JUCO's though. That has eaten up too many spots for us recently- especially with pitching.
We've "Don't fit Mississippi State" ourselves out of a lot of coaches. Just my generalized comment for the day.
I'm not worried about any coach on staff but Foxhall. Cheese needs to be better with the runners but that falls on the kids too. We'll be fine if we tweak some things and pull a good load of transfers. We've already cut a few recruits that weren't making the cut and I expect more from the lower classes too. I'll bitch a little but my level of concern is pretty damn low overall.
I agree. Foxhall is my only concern. I think our staff fits Mississippi State. But I do think we need to adjust our recruiting slightly. I'm curious to see what direction Lemonis goes from here with it. Him "wanting more toughness" is a positive step in the right direction.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooterpoot
I may be wrong but the Natty may have made our staff too thankful to our returning players and didn't put enough heat on them with some tough portal players. Every year we must put pressure on our players so they knew they will be replaced if we get someone better. Tough competition for playing time breeds excellence.
I definitely think that happened with us some.Quote:
Originally Posted by OLJWales
We had way too many players on the roster who were not SEC players.Quote:
Originally Posted by OLJWales
This year will tell us what the program will be for the next few years. If this humiliating season doesn't put a fire in the coaches A$$ to recruit better talent, he will never recruit elite talent. Regardless of what happens, This could be a wake up call for the entire team. I expect Lemonis to come out swinging on a lot of recruits and transfers. I was hoping we would clean house on assistant coaches, but I guess Lemonis has a little faith in them still. One more season like we had this year, and Cohen will clean house on all of them.
State has everything going for them and I mean everything. NIL Money, tradition, history, Natty and the best damn baseball stadium in college baseball with the most energetic and loyal fans. No excuse for not making conference Tournament. No excuse for not making the NCAA tournament. He should have been fired natty or not. They just flat gave up the last three weeks.
Which is simply not excusable for STATE. Been a whole lotta retard, laziness & piss poor mgmt goin' on round here. Natty then Major Buzz Kill pisses me off, confuses and flat out breaks my STATE heart. 17 the HELL outta this BS. Your on your own now Lemonis. These boys are of yo own pickin'. You got some work to do fella.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leeshouldveflanked