hears to hoping you are wrong, or someone else comes in and is the lighting rode we need.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg
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hears to hoping you are wrong, or someone else comes in and is the lighting rode we need.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg
I agree. I think Will has the physical skills to do the job but seems to be restricted mentally from preforming as an above average SEC QB. By this, I don't mean a Wonderlic score but the mental confidence to get the job done on a high level. I'm curious to know if last year's high turnover rate at the QB position made him overly conservative with his approach to the position. Playing not to lose. Does he have the "deer in headlights" outlook in his head?Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverick91
Totally agree. I'd rather be wrong & MSU be better than right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverick91
It's both, but I lean heavily on him not having the physical skills.Quote:
Originally Posted by TaleofTwoDogs
Again break it down
Arm strength: Above average, normal, below average
Speed: Above average, normal, below average
Athleticism: Above average, normal, below average
Quickness: Above average, normal, below average
Accuracy: Above average, normal, below average
I think it's a combination of 2 things:
1. Rogers is an adequate, very football smart game manager.
2. This offense will limit anyone to a degree. In the Big 12 and Pac-12 they had guys breaking away for big plays- that happens alot less in the SEC. Teams are playing soft pass D and then running downhill and blowing people up. The defensive philosophy against Leach has changed over the years. We cant usually throw quick because of the coverages against us. So everything has to develop. It's really hard to throw against 7 and 8 players play after play. Rogers almost never gets the luxury of going only against 6 in the Secondary as most QB's get often vs a 4 man front and 1 blitzer.
Did you buddy in the 49ers front office tell you all that?
- I can settle to agree with your 1st point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
- However, it's because of point #2 that we need a more dynamic player back there.
I would ask though, what college offenses are really good at the P5 level with a QB talent like Rogers? Can name a few?
I look at it like this - Will is kind of like Mullen starting out having to play Tyson Lee. Tyson was a great leader, a JUCO All-American, but he wasn't necessarily SEC QB material and wasn't a perfect match to Mullen's system.
But, Tyson was all we had until Relf could get ready. Will is matched to the system better then Tyson was, but at this point in his career I'm not sure Will is SEC QB material. But, like Tyson, at this point he is the best we've got and 1 of 2 things will need to happen - either A) Will advances or B) someone progresses and beats him out. If A happens great, we win more games. If B happens, great we win more games. If neither happen, it will be a long couple of years.
You can't go by ratings with QB. Just too hard to evaluate because so much of it is not physical. I certainly didn't pay enough attention to WSU to know how Rogers compares to them, but it would not surprise me if they all had more arm strength than Rogers even if none of them were big arms. So far, Rogers looks like his arm is below average and his decision making skills are either slightly above or well above average, depending on how you want to account for the fact that he's a true sophomore. I think if Will came into this offense after we had a few years to tool up for it (and especially if he got to redshirt and then sit the bench for a year), he'd be more than adequate for it to be successful. I think as it is, we're still not there and him lacking a lot of zip on his balls is just one more thing that makes it hard for the offense to really be successful, even if he's not the primary problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgman15
All that said, he's still doing pretty damn well. QB is such an important position that of course having a better QB would instantly make us better, but he's certainly not playing at a level that deserves a lot of criticism.
You need to be able to run the ball when teams drop 8. Ole Miss can. We can't.
He's also the youngest to ever play for leach.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg
Examine will in two years and compare him to other leach qb
And as a fourth year jr, which is usually on average when a leach qb plays, Rogers will be normal or above average in every category you listed above. The problem is he is having to play as a true freshman and now a covid freshman.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg
Nobody minds critique. He is average at best right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
But for shotgun to compare him to redshirt juniors and seniors, and to say he cannot get better physically from age 19 to age 22 (ask Matt Wyatt about this, he talked about himself the other day), is intellectually dishonest.
Good postQuote:
Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg
I just don't see tools improving. You either have them or you don't. He can certainly process things quicker, which would help. I just think for will to be a really successful sec qb, he'll have to be lifted up by his supporting cast. I'm hoping Sawyer (in time) can lift up those around him like big time qbs do.Quote:
Originally Posted by confucius say
He's never going to have a huge arm. That's the only tool I can say will never be above average. He will have to make up for that with anticipation and accuracy, like a drew Brees approach.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
Great comparisonQuote:
Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg
Personally, I don't think he'll be on the field in two yearsQuote:
Originally Posted by confucius say
You keep bringing up his age, &, while he should get smarter, that's going to do a whole lot for his physical toolsQuote:
Originally Posted by confucius say
I see what you're saying; but at the end of Drew's career, his processor speed was unbelievable, along with his accuracy. Even being superior to probably the whole nfl in those 2 categories, the saints had to execute flawless to drive the ball. It makes it so hard, and again, drew was unbelievably accurate and quick processing. Younger drew could sling the hell out of a ballQuote:
Originally Posted by confucius say
I think Matt is good at breaking down film, but he's said something about players that kind of makes me laugh. I don't look to him for evaluationsQuote:
Originally Posted by confucius say
AgreeQuote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
We had the same issues with KJ Costello, a redshirt senior who got a look at NFL camps. Read Coach's point 2 again and let it sink in.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg
Brees is extremely quick & twitchy. A great athlete although short. Different level athletes we're talking about here.Quote:
Originally Posted by confucius say
70% on one guy regardless of type of offense scheme is ridiculous high. OL, DL will win a lot of games. Great OL with an average RB will still produce yards. Great OL, great WR with average QB will still produce yards.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg
Yes if there are gaps other places, then the QB can make up for it. You can't throw out everything else that makes a winning team. Bama won a lot of championships without a heisman winner or great QB. Some great QBs in college didn't play on championship teams but made it big in NFL - Brady, Breeze, Dak, etc. QB ain't 70% of a winning team.
Even Peyton Manning didn't win a NC - Tee Martin did. How do you reconcile that?
Here are the sec qb:Quote:
Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg
Young
Nix
Jefferson
Dude from Aggie
Max Johnson
Corral
Rogers
Daniels
Emory Jones
Levis
Bazelak
Seals
Milton
Dude from Usce
Using your categories, Rogers is above average in accuracy and below average in arm strength. Average in speed/quickness/athleticism (same as Aggie, bazelak, Levis, seals, Daniels, Usce guy).
You just put Rogers & Daniels in the same category while also giving Rogers above average accuracy?Quote:
Originally Posted by confucius say
What has Rogers done for you to think he has above average accuracy?
Calzada was actually pretty athletic. Now his accuracy made his parents in the stands deny they knew himQuote:
Originally Posted by confucius say
He may not.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg
Agree. Calzada is an SEC athlete with G5 throwing ability. His arm doesn't work rightQuote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
I'm saying Rogers is the same as those guys in the speed, athleticism, quickness category.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg
Be accurate throwing the football. To the tune of 75% I believe.
I meant their starter, Haynes whatever.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
Sevendust over on GP took the time to show a couple of screenshots where we missed some big plays with open receivers on the deep and intermediate routes.
There are tons of things I still don't like about the offense, but knowing that we're at least creating big play opportunities makes me feel better. To be clear these are situations with clean pockets, not deals were the QB is flushed right and the guy on the far left becomes wide open.
The main problem seems to be Will just focuses way too much on the routes within 10 lines of the LOS. Teams are seeing that tendency and crowding that area more and more, so while we still complete the catch, there is no YAC.
He's not a bad QB at all you can win with him as he does a good job of limiting mistakes. The Goff/Stafford example is a good one earlier in the thread. Is he better than some SEC starting QBs? Absolutely, but outside Bama and Georgia the SEC has struggled at the position that last few years overall for some reason.
So can Will change his mentality to get a get a little more confident in taking deeper shots and also making the defense account for him with the occasional scramble? That's where our growth needs to happen to take a step forward. We need to run the ball better as well and get our run blocking worked out but considering how little we run, that's not an important right now.
Rogers is not the same athlete as Daniels. Not closeQuote:
Originally Posted by confucius say
We're going to be arguing about completion percentage with this offense for years to come. I can see it now. It's meaningless to me. Absolutely meaningless.
That 75% completion % is good enough for our offense to currently be ranked 75% in the country. So it seems to me that completion % in the air raid & 10 cents may get you a cup of coffee.
The starter that broke his ankle is a crazy good talent. Can run & has a hand cannonQuote:
Originally Posted by confucius say
Wonder how many of those misses downfield are a product of just not trusting his arm to get it there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Irondawg
Accuracy, like any stats can be a bit misleading.
If I throw 10 passes and complete 8 for an 80% rate but 6 are passes to the RB in the flat and while caught are off his back hip and don't allow for any YAC is that QB more accurate than a guy who goes 5 for 10 but has 2 drops and hits all 5 completions in stride that allow for YAC?
The boxscore would tell me that the guy who is 80% completion percentage is way more accurate than the guy at 50%. The eye test would tell me the 50% guy is the more accurate QB.
Arguing QB is tough and it's why so many professional graders still get it way wrong.
Solid post. I think this week is a great week for Will to air it out some. We should have WRs open down the field this week & it's a great time for him to unleash it responsiblyQuote:
Originally Posted by Irondawg
I think he's been Ok going over the top. It's the off platform, mid range throws where he struggles. Going over the top doesn't require a ton of arm strength unless you Corral it 60 yards in the airQuote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
The miss to walley and Johnson were both within ten yards amd both would have been huge gains. Just two bad throws.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7