Even in Stans last four years, fans packed the Hump, students stood in line for games, there was excitement!Quote:
Originally Posted by Ifyouonlyknew
Howland, not so much!
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Even in Stans last four years, fans packed the Hump, students stood in line for games, there was excitement!Quote:
Originally Posted by Ifyouonlyknew
Howland, not so much!
That's on the fans though. Mainly because of Stricklin & Ray. Howland has done enough to have more support. The anger over the team was just as high.Quote:
Originally Posted by BiscuitEater
Disagree! It's the product on the floor that brings in the fans! Vic showed that MSU will support a team that gives effort! Even WBB!Quote:
Originally Posted by Ifyouonlyknew
The effort isn't what packed the Hump winning was. That same effort & going .500 in the SEC the crowd isn't showing up.Quote:
Originally Posted by BiscuitEater
Not charged? Yes you are correct but here is a link about is being under investigation. Also I posted we were under the microscope and that's a fact. He was told to stop certain things after 05 and didn'tQuote:
Originally Posted by Dawsonmsu
https://www.djournal.com/sports/msu-...45ecd7dcf.html
Anyone that thinks Howland or Pinson is worth a shit is a dumb 17.
I guess the debate is closed!😳Quote:
Originally Posted by 99jc
That was also before you could watch every game online or on TV. Thats killed attendance as much as anythingQuote:
Originally Posted by BiscuitEater
And Stansbury's record would have looked awful without Lawrence Roberts happening to have family in Mississippi. Those things balance out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawsonmsu
Also, nobody was making Malik successful his first two years because he wasn't going to buy in.
What are women's basketball tickets? $5? Men's basketball has to make money off of tickets which means corporate tickets and tickets sold to people not in easy driving distance, which means unless we really develop a formal system that encourages ticket holders to get tickets to people that use them, you're not going to have as easy of a time packing out the hump.Quote:
Originally Posted by BiscuitEater
That said, I think pretty much all sports are battling attendance issues and most sports are also losing viewers at the same time. Lots of different things going into that.
Regardless, it sounds like Howland will return if nothing more than financial reasons. Due to the shortfall of money from COVID, it seems Mississippi State doesn't want to pay a $6 million buy out to Ben Howland. Things could change between now and the end of the season, but I'm not anticipating a change at this point. If it does happen, I'd be willing to bet that Cohen hires an assistant rather than paying an established head coach.
Right because some of our DA fans can't grasp that maybe Stans was pretty average in a down SEC in a division that was down while he was here and he still didn't ever do jack crap in the Tourney.Quote:
Originally Posted by tcdog70
You are wanting someone who makes runs in the post season and yet you are arguing we shouldn't have gotten rid of Stans.
You can't have your cake and eat it too. Either making an occasional NCAAT and getting bounced in the first round is acceptable or it isn't and if it isn't then you shouldn't be a stans fan either because that is all he did.
About what I figured would happen. Bring him back by default so we can suck again next year and delay the inevitable 1 more miserable season.Quote:
Originally Posted by KB21
I get basketball is nowhere near the revenue darling football is for colleges (shoot I don?t even know how many colleges are profit makers from men?s basketball), but USCe just fired Boom with his buyout equating out to around $13-15 mil and their athletic dept. is gonna have around a $44 mil deficit this fiscal year. I?m sure their athletic budget is much larger than ours (going off 2018-19 numbers about $35 mil larger overall) but haven?t we done well in years past of staying in the black to where it wouldn?t be a back breaker to pay a lame duck HC?s buyout of $6 mil in one of your big 3 sports? I might be way off here and I?m fine saying I am if someone who knows more than me corrects me. But crap, could Cohen not talk him into retirement and a reduced ?buyout? and let him fly on back out to Cali to retire out there?
Why would Howland agree to a reduced buyout?Quote:
Originally Posted by HailStateSZN19
I didn?t say he would. I said Cohen should try to talk him into retirement and a reduced buyout, still a buyout, but lower than the $6 mil number. If he wouldn?t budge on it, then scrape up some booster support if you got to get rid of a guy that you know isn?t the answer. Do you think he?s the answer next year? Do you feel good about men?s basketball and going into next season with Howland? Are you excited about the direction of the program?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ifyouonlyknew
No need to rehash the same argument you've made 100 times. I just asked you a simple question on why Howland would take a reduced buyout.Quote:
Originally Posted by HailStateSZN19
And I said, I didn?t say he would take a reduced buyout. But that?s an angle Cohen should attempt if he thinks it?s time to move on from Howland. Mutually part ways and see if early retirement is something he?d consider along with a handsome fee, but a reduced fee from the $6 mil number.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ifyouonlyknew
If Cohen wants to fire him then Howland isn't going to help. If you want me gone pay me my money & I'll leave. I'm saying Howland has no reason or incentive not to get all his money.Quote:
Originally Posted by HailStateSZN19
If that?s the case, scrape up the support from boosters or cough up the $6 mil and move on. IF Cohen thinks it?s time, I don?t see how coughing up $6 mil more is some completely undoable thing and why delay the inevitable to next season.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ifyouonlyknew
If the boosters wanted him gone the AD doesn't go to them to scrape up the money. The boosters come to him & say it's time we have the money. The fact that hasn't happened yet gives you your answer. Now there's still games left to play this season but as of now no one think he getting let go this year.Quote:
Originally Posted by HailStateSZN19
Welp....Doesn?t get much more embarrassing than losing to Vandy at home by 21 but we?ve still got time left for him to top that so I?ll wait and see what happens the rest of the way. If we continue our recent decline & he?s back next year, I?ll know the admin doesn?t give two s**ts about men?s basketball and it?ll just be more apathy and more boring basketball to watch next year. Alright I?m done.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ifyouonlyknew
I agree with you that it's not going to happen, but if Howland were on the fence about coaching next year, then there might be a situation where he'd rather coach than forego his buyout, but might rather retire if he'd still get half his buyout. And similarly, MSU might prefer to fire him at half his buyout, but not at the full buyout. So there certainly could be a deal to be made if he wasn't thrilled about coaching next year.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ifyouonlyknew
I think it's all irrelevant though. I think Howland wants to coach and while I'm sure there are people that aren't thrilled with the way we've looked at times, I don't think his seat is even warm yet, and I don't think that's because of his buyout. Don't have any inside sources, I just think he's done well enough to be safe.
HAHAHA...that's why you are not the AD.
Ok, lets just hire Gene Hackman from Hoosiers and be done with it. Cohen gets to play Dennis Hopper's character....someone go get him some manischewitz, stat!**
The figure is less than four but north of 3. There is a plan in place but we will wait til the end of the season. Some other non contract details that will be worked out as well.
Idc if this is accurate or true, I?m gonna go with it because it gives me hope and optimism for men?s basketball that I?ve not had in a long time. Hope you?re right 77.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawgfan77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawgfan77
Nothing burger! NCAA looked at MSU and never found a thing in 14+ years plus his assistant time recruiting!
Compare that record with some of the rest of SEC and get back to us!
Bullshit! Please explain all those televised WBB games that were complete sellouts under Vic! They were winners and fans came in droves!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
Because it cost half the price it would cost to go to a men's game. People from Jackson and other towns across Mississippi arent going to Starkville for a game when they can watch it on TV due to cost. But if I lived in the Golden Triangle and I could take my family of 4 to the game for a reasonable price? yeah I'll do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by BiscuitEater
I'll never drive to Sville again for a game when I can watch it on TV. That includes football unless we have a big friend weekend planned. TV is killing attendance.
Sit this one out and have a biscuit. Things were not peaches and cream under Stans.Quote:
Originally Posted by BiscuitEater
Yes. The NCAA was snooping us under Stands. So much that Strick and Keenum interviewed former players like Charles Rhoades Shane Power before they made a coaching hire like Rick Ray. That should tell u somethingQuote:
Originally Posted by Dawgfan77
Yep. State is a nothing program outside of the years Stans was here. As bad as I wish it wasn?t true.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawsonmsu
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawsonmsu
You have to realize what MSU basketball is....nothing. Nothing more than an occasional decent team. Bury had more input into the better years than anyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by BB30
Howland has basically matched thy success. You are a damn fool if you think we will typically hire anyone better than Rick Ray.
Before you go firing Howland, you better have the ink dried on another coach?s contract or you are looking at another Rick ray type hire.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SPMT
You're off the deep end on this one. We are not anything special as far as a basketball school, but we are still a P5 team that is going to make somebody a multimillionaire. We will pretty much always have better options than RIck Ray unless we are under severe sanctions, and probably would have better options even then. We certainly had better options than Rick Ray when we hired him, we just passed on them. It was basically a Cohen hire before Cohen. Thought they could pick a coach out of obscurity rather than taking a more known quantity that, as a result of being more known, had more obvious potential flaws.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SPMT
What did Stans do in the tourney? We were still a nothing program when it came to national relevance. We crapped the bed every time he got in.
I don't understand why our fans hold our basketball program and Stans in such high regard.
When Stans was here we were a middle of the road team same as now that benefitted from a down SEC.
I actually think there are a ton of similarities in Stans and Howland. Neither of them have figured out how to beat a zone or handle pressure. Both were solid recruiters that landed some good talent. Neither can seem to get over the hump in the tourney.
Howland was elite at UCLA and you could argue he was elite at Pitt. He is now middle of the road.
Stans was and is also middle of the road.
No he is getting penalized for not winning with that kind of talent. He won everywhere else he has been so what is different with MSU? He is way past his prime and damn near at the bottom of his coaching hill. He needs to retire for good this time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ifyouonlyknew
Agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by msbulldog
Also tree hires are stupid. That is what lost of WBB program - a tree hire. Just get a good coach, I don't care where they come from.
I think both sides of this are correct. TV access and cost are taking their toll on fan attendance everywhere. However, to your point, a winning team will bring out the fans. Vic proved that with a program that was typically a cellar dweller, just win and people will come.Quote:
Originally Posted by BiscuitEater
This is where Mississippi State is at on this. Under Ben Howland, this program takes two steps forward and then two steps backwards. That has been consistent over the past 3 seasons. So, it appears that the program has progressed as much as it is going to under Ben. The thing is, the program is not a disaster either, no matter how many want to use the 20 plus point losses to Ole Miss and Vandy as reasons to say the program is bad. This is a situation where if you fire Ben Howland, you can get better, but you can also get worse.
Then the finances come into play. The reason they will not make a move now is because boosters aren't going to want to come up with the $6 million buy out. Even in a year, with issues from the covid stuff still having an effect on the money, I think it is very likely that if you see a change made, you will see the athletic department target an assistant coach that will not command a big salary.