Yes, you just have to recruit a majority old school kids from old school homes. And I am fine with that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Commercecomet24
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Yes, you just have to recruit a majority old school kids from old school homes. And I am fine with that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Commercecomet24
Just admit it. The program is a total shat show. Everyone not a MSU Homer sees it and is saying it.
Surprisingly there's still a lot of kids out there who want to be coached hard. Just have to find them, but when you do get those type players you have players that are 100% bought in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowbell
So you don't think Leach knows what he's doing?Quote:
Originally Posted by PendingTransaction
What does it matter what non MSU fans think?
Here's a wikipedia page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_L...ootball_coach)
I'm not ready to say that. But, as you like to say, this isn't a video game. The fact that Leach was successful somewhere else doesn't automatically mean it's going to translate. Coaches change jobs and fail at the new school all the time; it's why hiring is a total crap shoot. Your methods don't always translate because you're dealing with different players, different opponents, and different circumstances. And yes, the perception nationally right now is that we're a dumpster fire.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg
examplesQuote:
Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg
https://www.nbcsports.com/northwest/...oach-youd-play
https://theathletic.com/499415/2018/...to-mike-leach/ [In this one, Connor Halliday explains that they didn't like Leach when he played for him ("typical of WSU alums," the article says) but does acknowledge that he likes him better after leaving the program.
Quite simply tell me this. If you were a prospect from the state of MS and you were looking at Ole Miss and us, who would you want to play for? It is that simple because those are the kids we are fighting for. You have Joey over there getting fined for standing up for his team and players against the SEC and then you have Kylin getting kicked off the team, a mass exodus mid season and a coach out there saying "we'll be glad to get rid of some more players".
Regardless of whether they should or not, optics matter. And kids (see local heroes, regardless of whether you think they are) in-state leaving the program and giving bad reports will matter.
I can understand that.Quote:
Originally Posted by bluelightstar
The best coaches I ever played for weren’t always fun to play for, although I did have pride due to knowing that we were doing things differently, however, the fact that the player insinuates that he appreciated a Leach after he left, is very telling as to how Leach coaches.
Sure in the short term those kids may choose OM, but in the long term, if Leach is winning, they’re coming hereQuote:
Originally Posted by MaroonBelle
Honestly, I think Leach's scheme is a relic. I think his coaching style and tact will not fly with southern players. Even worse, I don't think he has the capacity to alter either enough to run a successful program here.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg
And for God's sakes, please stop with the fallacy that he is going to miraculously recruit all of these salt of the earth, SEC caliber players. Where are they...at the MAIS Christian Academies? After the next three "disastrous air raid shows" there will be more attrition and possibly some big decommits.
We’ll seeQuote:
Originally Posted by PendingTransaction
You mean, like Ole Miss having 2 decommits in the past 3 weeks, and just lost their only MS HS commit so far? And that we won head to head battles so far, for in state commits? I hear you saying TSUN looks great losing each week, and their coach is a good smarta$$ on twitter. They are going to also have transfers also at the end of this season. Some may be on the 2 deep. Lane also told a commit from Oxford to look elsewhere. Let the season play out.Quote:
Originally Posted by MaroonBelle
I guess it depends if you think 2 or 3 years is short term. I think OM is gonna kick our ass and be winning as soon as they can get some defensive talent in cause that offense WORKS, they just need a decent defense. Even their losing looks fun right now. So how long are we gonna lose waiting for him to clean house and get his guys in and are we gonna be able to make up for that lost time. I dunno.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg
"You mean, like Ole Miss having 2 decommits in the past 3 weeks, and just lost their only MS HS commit so far? And that we won head to head battles so far, for in state commits? I hear you saying TSUN looks great losing each week, and their coach is a good smarta$$ on twitter. They are going to also have transfers also at the end of this season. Some may be on the 2 deep. Let the season play out."
Our coach is a smart ass too. not just on twitter. we'll see if we hang on to our commits with all this shaking out right now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaroonBelle
Current commitments from in state:
OM - 1 juco
MSU - 11
Like and respect is different. I think more players respect him than like him. I seem to recall reading about players not liking Saban at all. I've read that there were several Dolphins players that came out and basically said they despised him.Quote:
Originally Posted by MaroonBelle
I don't know about Leach but it's clear he will be respected. I think I did read somewhere that a former player said "players may not like Leach but he gets results."
The program became a mess the second the players realized Joe wouldn't discipline them. That mess manifested itself on the field last year. Now we're cutting out all the weeds from our yard and piling it up by the road and it's rehashing the fact our program is a mess because it's all out in the open for the neighbors to see. But this isn't Leachs' mess, he's just cleaning it up. Is he also making it worse than it has to be? Maybe, he's known as a hard ass and he doesn't care about perception. But he is cleaning it up, and he will end up with a 100% bought in roster that values hard work and listening to coaches.Quote:
Originally Posted by PendingTransaction
The bottom line is, Leach has to change his scheme and coaching style or he will go the way of the "Father of the Air Raid," Hal Mumme. Hell Hal couldn't make the cut at fricking Belhaven.
You bring up good questions, but I can't currently answer them as I've never seen Leach's full process.Quote:
Originally Posted by MaroonBelle
What I do know is that this is his 3rd time to take over a program, 3rd time going through this exact situation, & the first 2 times ended up with the best teams those schools have ever had.
Currently, this staff is recruiting well. We'll see how it goes
Good post.Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt3467
Everyone loves the coach when the win.
If you want an accurate assessment, let's hear from Bama 2007 players
Playing time.Quote:
Originally Posted by MaroonBelle
Southern players? Not sure what you mean here, please elaborate, but maybe like Texas? Where 90% of his Texas tech players were from.Quote:
Originally Posted by PendingTransaction
yeah. His post makes no sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by confucius say
We have real Leach haters, which is fine, that will abandon all logic to make a point, which is not fine.
I mean the areas were MSU gets 90% of its players, and it ain't Texas. You know like nearly 50% of the incoming class will come from MS.Quote:
Originally Posted by confucius say
I think the question is whether leach can get enough of his guys (disciplined, team first, no weed) that are also sec caliber athletes.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg
Are you saying Texas players are not southern players but MS players are?Quote:
Originally Posted by PendingTransaction
I agree 100% - I have always felt that this is part of the reason For Sabans success. He filters through the 4 & 5 stars who have the right attitude.Quote:
Originally Posted by Commercecomet24
Not really following this back and forth but Texas high school players are 100% not MS, LA, AL, GA players. Total different style and total different atmospheres.Quote:
Originally Posted by confucius say
That's the recipe...Leach needs to filter through the 4 & 5 stars and get the ones with the right attitude. In 2023 we will win the Natty!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowbell
Vs Butch Jones at TN who got top 15 classes all the time, but produced no on field results or draft picks because they were the kinds of 4*s other programs dropped after seeing they didn't have what it takes mentallyQuote:
Originally Posted by Cowbell
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg
Norman Dale did it in one season, and we already had the football program we could have ever hoped for before Cohen started hiring people. This notion that we're going to tear it all down and build it back up into something even better than it was under Mullen is completely ludicrous. This is the SEC, and we don't recruit well enough for that. We already had the foundation and the philosophy that suited our program best, and we threw it away.
You can talk recruiting and who the "real South" is all you want. It doesn't make one 17 of a difference because here's the simple facts, winning solves all problems. Dan was an ass to 95% of our players, but they'd go to war for him. Hev was an ass to 100% of our players but they'd run through a brick wall for him. Program toughness and pride is what we had under Dan and what we lost under Joe. He might've been a likable guy, but he was a HORRENDOUS HC and program CEO. Leach is trying to bring that back and I applaud him for that. Will it work? Who the hell knows, but I can guarandamntee you another 2 to 3 years of Moorhead would've had cultural problems that make what we're going through now a cakewalk. I'm on record as saying I don't think the pure air raid can work, but that's a discussion for another time and a year from now. Right now, the discussion needs to be who are going to be the leaders on our team. I've heard too many stories to count of the lax program attitude under Moorhead, enough to make you physically ill. I haven't heard any of that under Mike. Look, if there's fans that want to jump ship then that is completely fine. I, along with many others, were here before the Dan Mullen bandwagon fans came aboard, we'll be here after they're gone, and we'll still be here when they try to rejoin us. Whether that be with Leach or another coach.
There is no secret sauce for most college teams - you can take a few chances and maybe they pan out and maybe they don’t. Dontae Jones helped us get to a final 4 but he would have never lasted if he had come in as a freshman and barely made it through his one year here.
But you can’t have a lot of those types or you have what Jackie and Stans had at the end of their tenure. The trouble is finding enough guys that are quality people and quality athletes that you can get to Starkville. That’s the hard part and I think was a huge reason Mullen was so eager to get out.
I don't disagree that Cohen is to blame for most of this, but Leach didn't turn the team culture into a dumpster fire. He's just having to work with what he's got.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArrowDawg
We've all blamed Cohen ad nauseum for the Moorhead hire, but at some point you just realize that there is nothing more we can do about it. What's done is done and now we only can worry about what to do next. And next has to be cleaning up the mess, which involves throwing out the trash
I agree, no Doubt DM doesn't have to work as hard as he did in Florida as Msu. We will and we have won since we hired JWS, but it's a up and down thing winning at StarkVegas.Quote:
Originally Posted by Irondawg
I just hope Leach will work hard and recruit "his players". I think it's harder to win at Msu than TT and WSU, because of the conference is much tougher and way more passionate than those other two conferences.
Yep - add Texas And USC to that list as wellQuote:
Originally Posted by the_real_MSU_is_us
This is an outstanding post. 100% agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve
Leach didn't cause this. He's just having to clean it up
LOL at the people wanting us to be a program that "our players like" who probably also railed Joe for a lack of discipline. Which was the result of him trying to have a program that our players liked.
Some of our issues on offense are discipline/sloppiness related- the WR's in particular.
Also- LOL at the people that think that we won't recruit Mississippi well just by looking at the rankings this year and the ins that we have for the class of 2022 already.
Some of our fans are so bad about talking out of both sides of their mouth. "We want a disciplined hard working team! But we want to the players to have fun all the time and Leach is wrong for kicking players off the team that don't follow the rules!"
This is the exact same shit from our fans that happened with Cohen as the baseball coach. The year before we hired Cohen "Our team is soft!" And then we hire Cohen "I don't like how he cusses at our players and he bunts too much."
The ONLY thing I have ever figured out about MSU fans is they want the exact OPPOSITE of whatever it is that MSU has at that moment. It seems like all of our fans want is some quick fix where the coach calls some cute play- but involving a QB run of course- otherwise that's going to get bitched about- to get us to the Liberty Bowl.
And before the "But....but....but Arkansas and Kentucky!" posts come- Arkansas had literally nowhere to go but up. They had completely turned on Morris- so of course they had nowhere to go but up. Beating us is about like beating Alabama for MSU. Stoops has been at UK for years and he has had several good teams now. Them beating us in Lexington shouldn't be a surprise since we haven't won there since 2014.
In the offseason we had fans like "I know there is going to be an adjustment". We have Leach's track record at Texas Tech and Wazzu to show that there is an adjustment period. AND YET we still have idiot stupid ass fans like "I don't know about this".
MSU fans just want a good meal, but most have no idea how it's cooked.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
Can't blame them. Unless you've played or been a part of a sport at a high level, how would you know?
Does Leach really suspend or kick off players for failing one drug test? Has he done this at other stops?