The offensive gameplan of the 1st halves against Bama and Ole Miss will forever piss me off. Cost us a SEC West and a conference championship, and a berth in the inaugural playoff.Quote:
Originally Posted by maroonmania
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The offensive gameplan of the 1st halves against Bama and Ole Miss will forever piss me off. Cost us a SEC West and a conference championship, and a berth in the inaugural playoff.Quote:
Originally Posted by maroonmania
If you think you were pissed about the first half of Bama game.. Ask Coach Collins how he felt.. or better yet ask Dan how bad Geoff ripped his ass all the way to the locker room...Quote:
Originally Posted by msu15
And with the OM game , well Dan already had his bags packed .. That seemed to be a common theme pre egg bowl game..
But how can you explain Leach beating Oregon and Stanford, like 4 out of the last 5 seasons?Quote:
Originally Posted by SheltonChoked
And yet we have some fans that think he was our best coach ever.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ari Gold
Yep. I don't get the Dan Cult.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
We?ve been over this... there is no such thing as a perfect coach in our history. Not even close. Dan had his flaws but is still the best coach we?ve ever had.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
I don't get why our fans continually bring up OM beating AL. But, here we are again.Quote:
Originally Posted by TrapGame
Oregon and Stanford have both been a little up and down the last few years while Washington was pretty consistent in that time. I think it’s also possible Jimmy Lake was just a better coordinator than whoever Oregon and Stanford had at DC. Some teams just have other another team’s number sometimes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bothrops
Petersen and Lake seemed to figure out the Air Raid years ago but that didn’t stop other teams from continuing to struggle with it. This offense may or may not work very often against the elite teams, but that is not new with us. And I would say it has a better chance to work against the big boys than the offenses we have historically tried. The important thing is that we can consistently move the ball on non-elite teams and then occasionally find a way to pick off one of the big boys. That’s what Leach teams have done historically and that’s all you can reasonably expect from him here.
Leach is going to need to run the ball enough to prevent teams from just rushing 3.
Rushing 3 and having 8 in coverage is the way Washington neutralized this offense. If Leach can just run enough to make teams commit 4 to the pass rush, then we'll be on our way to success.
Don’t forget how much leeway Leach gives his qb to call the plays. Some qbs are going to be more willing to check to a running play than others
Wait a minute... You tellin' me that an offensive minded coach will run the ball when he has a numbers advantage on the LOS.... and Pass, otherwise?Quote:
Originally Posted by gravedigger
http://e.lvme.me/fzrtozl.jpg
Give me Jackie over Dan any and every day. And for those that are too young to remember- give me 1998 and 1999 over 2014 too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Falcon
No way ... One was fired and the other left on his own.... I remember 98 & 99 ... I also remember 1980 as well and none of those years can compare to 2014Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
He's a good coach.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bothrops
sup my brother?Quote:
Originally Posted by TUSK
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Originally Posted by Todd4State
So rather than getting beat by a teams that won the sugar, orange and nation championship, you'd rather lose to a 5-6 Big 12 team and get blown out by a 3 win sec team?
Dan had his flaws, but you must be forgetting the eggs Sherrill laid.
That is a bad take. It may have ended down and left a sour taste, but the ride was so unbelievably fun while it lasted.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
Uh, well, because it is a good example (actually twice) of how a team with overall inferior talent can have a chance to compete and win against the superior team.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooterpoot
I'm kinda amazed at how you dog Mullen for how 2014 ended but give Jackie a pass for the end of '99 which was almost identical. Both teams lost in Tuscaloosa to Bama teams that won the SEC and then both had a road loss to a 4-loss team where we just played really poorly. People argue that our best wins in 2014 were against overrated teams, and while that is true, they were still solid wins in games that we dominated. And it's not like we beat a bunch of powerhouses in '99. Our best win was against an 8-4 Ole Miss team and we got to play a 6-6 Clemson team in our bowl game. The Georgia Tech team that beat us in the Orange Bowl was an 11 win team that finished in the Top 10. And in '99 we also had eek out wins against 3-8 LSU, 5-6 Memphis, 5-6 Auburn, and 6-6 Kentucky.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
You say people are too young to remember, I say that nostalgia may have you misremembering what the situation actually was. We had some memorable teams in that era that were definitely good. But the run that Mullen put together as a whole was better than Jackie's run. And since we are bashing Mullen for missing an opportunity to win the West in 2014, let us not forget that in addition to '99, Jackie had teams in '97 and 2000 that were very much in the hunt to win the West and both years we proceeded to go 0-2 in our final two games against Arkansas and Ole Miss teams we should have beaten.
With turnovers and proven recruiting cheating?Quote:
Originally Posted by maroonmania
Lungbill is forgetting that leach is not coming to the SEC or a men?s sports conference for the first time. Leach torched and wrecked some great defenses in the Big 12 before they all became spread teams. I?m talking the great Texas and Oklahoma teams of their golden age of early 2000?s.Quote:
Originally Posted by SheltonChoked
Also Leach put up numbers with Kentucky in the SEC 1990?s.
Also, NFL teams are now running his offense. This is isn?t a Valdosta State gimmick, this is an NFL mainstream offense.
https://i.postimg.cc/05cV00pz/1-AF23...68-A622245.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by Captain Falcon
Before Jackie - we were not good. For the young kids, we were basically Kansas or Illinois today. We had cool helmets but as a pre Jackie kid fan, we basically only aspired for a Liberty or Independence Bowl. Playing AF in a bowl in the 1990s was a big deal. Beating Texas in a home game was unbelievable for us.Quote:
Originally Posted by Turfdawg67
Before Mullen - we were a flat lined program again. So Jackie did not leave us in great shape. We should not blame Jackie for this, he did not hire Croom. Also the NCAA was out to destroy Jackie.
So we can’t Exactly compare the periods. Mullen and Jackie both did a job. Mullen has a better AD. That’s a huge advantage.Templeton was basically Mr Magoo. Templeton was equivalent disadvantage to being on permanent probation.
But facing facts, Mullen was ranked #1 in the Nation. That’s huge and unbelievable. We played in a Sugar Bowl for the first time since Duquesne was a football school. Jackies best QB was Wayne Madkin. Would he even make the roster for a Mullen team after two recruiting cycles? Matt Wyatt was a Jackie QB, that kid was pointless to watch. I really thought we had better QBs in my Econ class. Mullen gave and created Dak Prescott. How many Mullen players are on a NFL roster? How many did JS have?
The difference is 1999 was not almost identical at all to 2014. We beat Ole Miss and won our bowl game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Falcon
The other difference is while yes, Jackie whiffed a couple of times on championships he actually won the West which is more than Dan did. And at least when Jackie whiffed he wasn't looking around for another job in the process.
So yes, again- give me a two year run where we win the SEC West and a 10 win season where we win the Peach Bowl over a really good three game run that ends in a complete letdown mostly due to the head coach.
Give Dan the Alabama and LSU teams of 1999, and then let's talk.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
In 1998, we got killed 42-23 by a 5-6 big 12 team and destroyed 42-6 by a 17ing 4-7 LSU team (whose other wins were Arkansas State and Idaho). We also lost to a 7-5 Air Raid Kentucky team. We played one good team that year, Arkansas. But we were never ranked higher than 23 in 1998, Being number 1 for weeks in 2014 beats that.
In 1999, we played 3 teams with a pulse, and lost to 2 of them.
2014? We played 6 teams in the top 20, and went 3-3. Oh and were #1 for 5 weeks.
IMO, 2014 hurts because we really had a chance. We never really did in 1998 or 1999.
I'll disagree a bit. We had a chance in 1999 - the Bama and Arkansas loses killed it. We were #8 in the AP going into #11 Bama. A win there gets us into the top 5 (Kansas, Tennessee, and PSU were ahead us and all lost that week). then beating Top 25 Arkansas gets us to #3 (#3 UF loosing to FSU) and Ole Miss get us to possibly tied for #2 An SEC title win against #5 Florida puts us in the mix for the Sugar Bowl against FSU instead of Virginia Tech. It's not as good of a position as we had in '14 - but it was still a shot.Quote:
Originally Posted by SheltonChoked
I see what you mean, but even with the Bama loss in 2014, we still make the playoff if we beat Ole Miss (we were 4th in the CFP rankings).Quote:
Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg
Your argument is we had a chance if we'd won 3 more games (Bama, ark, and SEC Champ) we had a shot. We win 3 more games in 2014 (Ole miss, CFP1, CFP2), and we have a National Champ Trophy.
I'll never be convinced that they would have put a 1 loss, non-SEC champ MSU in the playoff. I don't care how many weeks we were #1, it wouldn't give us enough to beat out 2 1-loss P5 champs. UGA and LSU can get that benefit, but I don't believe we would have. The only way we get in in 2014 with 1 loss is as an SEC champ.Quote:
Originally Posted by SheltonChoked
Swap the budget and facilities between Dan and Sherrill and see what each team looked like. Sherrill was well known as a recruiter and still struggled at times to recruit highly rated guys to MSU, which is why he went so juco heavy. If Dan had to recruit to MSU in the 90s he would have just been another guy here. He went to state at the perfect time when the g5 and the P5 started separating and not competing for the same athletes due to sec money and tv contracts. Sherrill would have killed it here from 2009 to 2017 in his prime.
Please. It's funny that you compare budget and facilities but don't compare competition. We were in a better spot relative to the rest of the country while Mullen was here but not relative to the rest of the SEC. The SEC West was miles better during Mullen's tenure than during Sherrill's peak.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarius
Good point.Quote:
Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg
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Originally Posted by Jarius
Yeah. Dan would have really struggled with Sleepy Robinson and Steve McNair at QB with Michael Davis, Kenny Roberts, and Kevin Bouie, at RB and Tony James, Eric Moulds, and Olanda Truitt at WR. ( McNair went to Alcorn to play QB, Dan would have let him play at MSU)
Dan gets flack for recruiting, but he had a good eye for raw talent guys that normally slipped through the cracks. Put Dan recruiting in the 1990's and he lands McNair, Marlo Perry, John Thierry, Perry Carter, Etc, that were overlooked at the time.
No way those guys running Dan's offense would score 21 ppg like they did for Jackie****
Unless you want Jackie to get 2010 SEC money and Dan to get 1991 SEC money.
Jesus...Dan Mullen with that team would have wrecked competition. They would be hell on wheels.Quote:
Originally Posted by SheltonChoked
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Originally Posted by SheltonChoked
Lord have mercy. Do you actually believe Dan Mullen would have landed those prospects? In the 90s? He struggled to recruit with a 100 million dollar budget. I’m sure he would have cleaned up back then though. Our current head coach has made fun of how terrible our facilities were back when he coached against Jackie. But yea, if he could have invented the spread option attack 20 years prior to anyone else running it I’m sure he would have been successful. Or maybe he would have gotten fired after 5 years like he would have here if we only had an 11 game schedule and not every team in the country got to go to a bowl game.
McNair went to the only school that would play him at QB.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarius
The other guys I listed he'd have had to beat out Jackson state, Alcorn, and Valley. That fit's Dan's recruiting. I didn't say he'd get Deshea Townsend and Eli Manning.
And yeah Dan being a head SEC Coach at 18 years old would probably have been a bigger issue than his recruiting****
What are the rules for this thought experiment? Dan has to recruit shitty, and he has to run the offense from that time? But Jackie gets to land all the 5*'s and he is not running the Pro set I?
Just don't think the comparisons you are making are even at all. The division championship we won in 1998 was against a much weaker SEC West than Mullen ever had to deal with, and touting that "we beat Ole Miss and won our bowl game" in 1999 is different from 2014 in that you're comparing an Ole Miss team that played in the Independence Bowl to an Ole Miss team that played in a New Year's Six game, and you're comparing a 6-6 Clemson team to an 11 win Georgia Tech team. Not to mention the '99 Egg Bowl was at home and the '14 Egg Bowl was on the road.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
Why do people keep saying this? Hal Mumme called plays at Kentucky. Dan Mullen has an OC also but he calls the plays. Leach left Kentucky so he could start doing his thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Federalist Engineer
Jackie wanted the bama job badly and it was Common knowledge. Media wasn't as big then. Only difference. And no social media....Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
Call the plays or not, he was Mumme’s OC in three stops and got a promotion to Oklahoma to call the plays for Bob StoopsQuote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
According the Stoops he hired ML cause he felt Kentucky was the best coached offense he faced as the Florida DC. He said this frequently at OU as the ML offense blew Oklahoma minds. They went spread and never looked back.
LOL, Maybe Mumme should have let ML call the plays and he would not have ended up at Jackson State and Belhaven later.
Yeah, somebody's career went through the roof and somebody else's career fall into the basement.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Federalist Engineer