Where will you draw the line....

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Originally Posted by Leroy Jenkins

Hopefully, one day you dont find yourself on the other end of this sword.

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I understand your point, but I'll do my best to understand the difference between right & wrong in an effort to make sure that doesn't happen

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Originally Posted by Cowbell

I apologize if this gets political but I would ask that we control the debating here and keep it mature.

Where do you draw the line? At what point in all this craziness will you decide to quit sports? Kneeling? Paid college players? Mascots changed? Athletes making demands. At some point it will effect revenue at the pro level. I have my feelings but it sucks every way we look at from a tradition standpoint. I want the best for everyone involved and that means there is give and take but at some point I will quit pro sports if it goes to far.

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Respectfully (trying to minimize debate), these things have always happened throughout the history of sports. Sports, like any cultural institution, has always been a vehicle for change. Just because many conveniently forget this history or think that athletes should just "shut up and play ball" doesn't change this. Try to image what conservatives were saying in 1947 when Jackie Robinson broke the color barrier in baseball. "Athletes making demands. At some point it will effect revenue at the pro level. I have my feelings but it sucks every way we look at from a tradition standpoint. I want the best for everyone involved and that means there is give and take but at some point I will quit pro sports if it goes to far."

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Originally Posted by JayDawg

NWADAWG, that's easy to say, but the world is more complicated than that. Without protests and arguments would there even be black athletes? I don't have to the time to look up sources, but I'm betting sports and politics have been intertwined for a long time.

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I'm over 50 and can not remember a time when pro sports weren't open to all races and nationalities.

There may have been things those players dealt with that I didn't know about especially as a child but there were definitely black athletes in pro sports. Maybe the 70+ yo folks on here can remember something different.

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Originally Posted by R2Dawg

You got it, it is about a power play. They talk tolerance but are intolerance to anyone with a different opinion on anything. I too don't have an issue changing the flag but let it happen the right way without the power plays. We used to be a country of laws and rights but that seems to have been pushed aside for whatever anything goes action those in power want to do. I too will continue to respect anyone's opinion and life choices even if I disagree. That is America or is used to be.

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Just How long does Mississippi need?

Georgia changed theirs in in 2001 and 2003...

We knew it was wrong and sent a bad signal in 2001. 19 years ago....

South Carolina removed the Battle flag of the army of North Virginia in 2015

Gunn said we should remove it from the MS flag then
MSU and Ole Miss said it should be removed in 2015 and stopped flying the state flag on campus


The below states changed their flags for reason other than "this is to remove a symbol of hate" since 2001...

Meanwhile Louisiana has changed their flag twice since 2001, without a popular vote.

Utah changed thiers in 2011, and is changing it again this year, without a popular vote.

Iowa changed their flag in 2018


So again, How long was it going to take? Another 110 years?

I'm pro flag change. I agreed the Minneapolis cop needed to be fired and prosecuted for the George Floyd death.

However I ran across a few tweets by three of our players that didn't support MHP Troopers. That really bothered me. That's the line for me. You have to understand not all Troopers and the state of MS is bad. I won't buy a ticket nor attend a football game this fall.

With that said, I was already on the fence about attending a game this year. Covid. Cohen's Gameday incompetency. Rising ticket prices and moving games for TV.... also knowing the outcome of most big games already..... I was not coming anyway unless there was a free ticket.

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Originally Posted by Maroonthirteen

I'm pro flag change. I agreed the Minneapolis cop needed to be fired and prosecuted for the George Floyd death.

However I ran across a few tweets by three of our players that didn't support MHP Troopers. That really bothered me. That's the line for me. You have to understand not all Troopers and the state of MS is bad. I won't buy a ticket nor attend a football game this fall.

With that said, I was already on the fence about attending a game this year. Covid. Cohen's Gameday incompetency. Rising ticket prices and moving games for TV.... also knowing the outcome of most big games already..... I was not coming to any this year anyway unless there was a free ticket.

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The escalation and combining unrelated issues in this post is fascinating.

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Originally Posted by Maroonthirteen

However I ran across a few tweets by three of our players that didn't support MHP Troopers. That really bothered me. That's the line for me. You have to understand not all Troopers and the state of MS is bad. I won't buy a ticket nor attend a football game this fall.

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So what you are saying is that a few bad apples spoiled the bunch for you.

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Originally Posted by Hot Rock

Did you quit Trump too? He was playing and swinging his arms acting like a fool during the anthem but heaven forbid a black man kneel to call attention to a real problem in this country.

Do you think it's OK for Trump to be disrespectful or are you in denial that he did it. Do I need to go find that video? On second thought, you probably wouldn't even watch it if I did or make excuses for your man or say it was all fake.

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Wow. You don't know a thing about me.

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Originally Posted by R2Dawg

Sports used to be the diversion that brought some people together; now it is the dividing rod of hatred. Our sports issues are just a manifestation of the rest of our culture as well. This didn't happen over night. Our spiritual and moral condition has been deteriorating for decades and finally coming to a head. Now some will say we are advancing. Look at the proof, not sure how anyone can buy that. Simply not true.

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Great response - I'm starting to lose my love for sports. I use hunting as my getaway from the real world and sports use to be the same. I still love college football and baseball as much as anyone but I'm starting to question it with everything else.

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Originally Posted by dparker

So what you are saying is that a few bad apples spoiled the bunch for you.

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Ha. Irony I'm aware.

But the tweet they retweet/comment in.... the MHP did nothing wrong. The tweet thread is doxing the Troopers.

All 3 starters. 2 are stars.

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Originally Posted by Maroonthirteen

Ha. Irony I'm aware.

But the tweet they retweet/comment in.... the MHP did nothing wrong. The tweet thread is doxing the Troopers.

All 3 starters. 2 are stars.

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Not defending doxing - because I am against that -

But, we also have no idea what those players frame of reference is regarding their interactions with MHP. Their only interactions might have been with an a-hole MHP officer. Hell, you've seen the way Starkville Police ticket athletes left and right, it wouldn't surprise me if they have had bad encounters with MHP, or that a number of our players have only had bad experiences with any LEOS. Trust me, having a bad police encounter will change your opinion real quickly. It's hard to get over, and hard to trust LEOs after it happens.

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Originally Posted by R2Dawg

Sports used to be the diversion that brought some people together; now it is the dividing rod of hatred. Our sports issues are just a manifestation of the rest of our culture as well. This didn't happen over night. Our spiritual and moral condition has been deteriorating for decades and finally coming to a head. Now some will say we are advancing. Look at the proof, not sure how anyone can buy that. Simply not true.

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Sports has been put on a moral pedestal and athletic privilege has become the norm. Most people wouldn't give two shits what these people care about if it wasn't for sports. It's interesting how hypocritical the diversity of sports is versus the real world. I haven't watched the NBA since Barkley said it was a "black league" and my NFL watching has declined steadily. I'll probably be done in the next 5 years.

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Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg

Not defending doxing - because I am against that -

But, we also have no idea what those players frame of reference is regarding their interactions with MHP. Their only interactions might have been with an a-hole MHP officer. Hell, you've seen the way Starkville Police ticket athletes left and right, it wouldn't surprise me if they have had bad encounters with MHP, or that a number of our players have only had bad experiences with any LEOS. Trust me, having a bad police encounter will change your opinion real quickly. It's hard to get over, and hard to trust LEOs after it happens.

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I can have empathy for that, but at what point does it just become a distain for any type of authority or law?

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Originally Posted by Maroonthirteen

Ha. Irony I'm aware.

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No worries. Glad you caught the irony in it.

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Originally Posted by Interpolation_Dawg_EX

. . . Most people wouldn't give two shits what these people care about if it wasn't for sports. It's interesting how hypocritical the diversity of sports is versus the real world. . . .

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What do you mean by it's interest how hypocritical the diversity of sports is versus the real world?

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Originally Posted by Interpolation_Dawg_EX

I can have empathy for that, but at what point does it just become a distain for any type of authority or law?

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I think that if you talked to most people protesting for change, its not about disdain for authority or the law, its about people in position of authority who either believe they are above the law or are treated as though they are above the law. It is also about inequities in the judicial system. Most of the people want the system to work, and for it to be fair, and they know for that to happen, we have to move off dead center.

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Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

Can't do a vote here. It just has to be done.

The politicians of Mississippi need to stand for what is right here. Even if it means they don't win re-election, at least they'll be on the right side of history & history will treat their name well.

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According to State Senators, there are back room deals being done by the democrats in Jackson as late as this pm. There is a vote scheduled in the House on Monday or Tuesday. People are asking for the names of all people involved.... This crap has happened in ever Presidential elections year... 2008, 2012, 2016 and 2020... That includes the flag crap, riots, race, etc... Look back and you will see what is going on. There are those that want all of your freedoms... If people don't STAND for something then they will FALL for anything.... They are coming for your guns next.... watch DC....

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Originally Posted by Mimi's Babies

According to State Senators, there are back room deals being done by the democrats in Jackson as late as this pm. There is a vote scheduled in the House on Monday or Tuesday. People are asking for the names of all people involved.... This crap has happened in ever Presidential elections year... 2008, 2012, 2016 and 2020... That includes the flag crap, riots, race, etc... Look back and you will see what is going on. There are those that want all of your freedoms... If people don't STAND for something then they will FALL for anything.... They are coming for your guns next.... watch DC....

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I haven't missed you Mimi. FFS.

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Originally Posted by dawgday166

Hunting, fishing? Michael Waddell just posted a video about death threats he's receiving and has received.

I think Mississippi flag should be changed for sure. Confederate flag should not be flying from Mississippi public buildings unless they're Civil War historical sites maybe, and then along with US Flag. I'm fine with discussion (may take a little time) on removing statues to museums or what not ... but not just destroying and tearing them down.

Fine with Nascar banning Confederate Flag. That's up to Nascar. But .. if someone wants to display it in their yard ... that's free speech. Same if someone wants to kneel during the National Anthem.

I'm fine with folks doing whatever the hell they wanna do in their personal lives, as long as they aren't hurting other folks physically, sexually, and in some cases mentally (depends on situation and should be close relationship like adult/child ... that's a tougher one). On the mental any adult usually can choose to just leave (although not always). So that's a tougher one.

Take the LGBT thing tho. If that's what they want to do ... fine. Don't understand it but I'll be nice an polite with them. Don't hate them and won't act that way towards them. I may and probably will choose not to hang out with them tho. That's my free choice. I have a couple of relatives that are LGBT. One very close one and I'm fine with both of them. Where that gets very tricky is male/female bathroom and men's/women's sports for transgender. Some kinda line needs to be drawn there IMO.

But if folks wanting all this "change" ... some of which is definitely warranted IMO, and they want to be "free" to do what they want and be treated fairly ... that also works both ways. Otherwise they just trying to do what has been historically done to them, from their perspective. So then it becomes about Power and maybe Revenge ... not Mutually Beneficial Change.

ETA: The only thing I would add is SEC fans have been oppressed for too long by Bama fans. Need to remove all Bama paraphernalia from EVERYWHERE. No exceptions ***** I am however, fine with whiskey distilling, weed growing, dog kicking, rednecks in Bama.

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This. I am all for changing the flag, but I?m not for changing it in response to cultural Marxism. That?s what this is. With cultural Marxism, it isn?t going to stop at just the flag. They will find something else that ?offends? and attack it. It?s all a tool of Marxism though.

I have a real fear that this is only the beginning. At some point the American Flag, statues And monuments of the founders of this great nation, statues and monuments of American war hero's and other significant people will come under fire(heck it already is in some places),and that's when it's gonna get really ugly. We need change in some areas, yes, and issues that have to be fixed for sure and it's overdue in some areas, but there's a point where the destruction has to stop.

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Originally Posted by Commercecomet24

I have a real fear that this is only the beginning. At some point the American Flag, statues And monuments of the founders of this great nation, statues and monuments of American war hero's and other significant people will come under fire(heck it already is in some places),and that's when it's gonna get really ugly. We need change in some areas, yes, and issues that have to be fixed for sure and it's overdue in some areas, but there's a point where the destruction has to stop.

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Respectfully, I just can't buy into this argument, CC. The United States has a legacy of progress. Is our country perfect? No, of course not. We've made mistakes, made them again, but always seem to get things right in the end (as we will with the current turbulence). America rid itself of slavery, has made strides in civil rights, women's rights, education, technology, and continues to help make the world a better place. That's what the American Flag represents. You can't even remotely say the same about anything connected to the Confederacy. Nada. That's the difference here. And it's the key one.

I guess guns is where I draw the line. What’s happening now a a prime example of why organizations like the NRA will not budge an inch on gun control. I will never agree to ANY form of gun control because that would just be the beginning. No magazine limitations, “assault rifle” limitations, number of guns allowed in households, nothing. Never ever give an inch.

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Originally Posted by BeardoMSU

Respectfully, I just can't buy into this argument, CC. The United States has a legacy of progress. Is our country perfect? No, of course not. We've made mistakes, made them again, but always seem to get things right in the end (as we will with the current turbulence). America rid itself of slavery, has made strides in civil rights, women's rights, education, technology, and continues to help make the world a better place. That's what the American Flag represents. You can't even remotely say the same about anything connected to the Confederacy. Nada. That's the difference here. And it's the key one.

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I understand what you're saying and always respect your opinion. However statutes of Columbus, Lincoln etc have been desecrated, and vandalized and it's been allowed to happen. The Flag has been burned, stepped on and mutilated, so obviously there's some serious hate drifting around out there. My question is where does it stop and where does it end?

ETA that's why i said in my original post that it was my fear, and that's why at some point someone has to step up and say enough.

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Originally Posted by BeardoMSU

Respectfully, I just can't buy into this argument, CC. The United States has a legacy of progress. Is our country perfect? No, of course not. We've made mistakes, made them again, but always seem to get things right in the end (as we will with the current turbulence). America rid itself of slavery, has made strides in civil rights, women's rights, education, technology, and continues to help make the world a better place. That's what the American Flag represents. You can't even remotely say the same about anything connected to the Confederacy. Nada. That's the difference here. And it's the key one.

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I will have to agree with CC. In my opinion, we have gone left of center in some areas. Abortion is a prime example. We do not always get it right and in the last couple decades, we have gotten more wrong than right. And we are sliding down some slippery slopes. There will come a time in this great nation when their will be more people on welfare than their will be at work. And when Christian values will no longer be accepted as ok.

I?m pretty close. Don?t care who wins or loses.

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Originally Posted by BeardoMSU

Respectfully, I just can't buy into this argument, CC. The United States has a legacy of progress. Is our country perfect? No, of course not. We've made mistakes, made them again, but always seem to get things right in the end (as we will with the current turbulence). America rid itself of slavery, has made strides in civil rights, women's rights, education, technology, and continues to help make the world a better place. That's what the American Flag represents. You can't even remotely say the same about anything connected to the Confederacy. Nada. That's the difference here. And it's the key one.

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Hey Beardo, you ever see "No Country for Old Men"? I guess I'm feeling like Ed Tom Bell lol

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Originally Posted by Extendedcab

The difference is, sorry you do not see it, kneeling is an act of submission and standing is a sign of equality, providing your support for and loyalty to something or someone. You kneel to God in submission as a created being that worships his creator as we are not His equal. You stand for the flag in support of, loyalty to and equality with your fellow man in defending this country and the principles for which it stands.

To do it the other way shows a lack of understanding and respect for both God and our country! Give to God what is God's and to Caesar (your country) what is Caesar's!

The things we do have meaning and always has but now the left is trying to diminish its meaning, vilify it and to rewrite history. How utterly shameful!

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The difference here is kneeling to disrespect or troops or kneeling for something else entirely. I swear, its like the kneeling happened in a vacuum without any context.

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Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

It's just in the crosshairs by an extremist. That name won't go anywhere because they are known for positive things

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Haha so is Drew Brees and everything else that the mob wants to end. Keep making excuses. If you let them take everything you have nothing

Down goes Francis Scott Key....

"Please please just let me have my sports" cries the eternal bugman.

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Originally Posted by BeardoMSU

Respectfully, I just can't buy into this argument, CC.

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Respectfully....

https://dtkp6g0samjql.cloudfront.net...04980_irkw.jpg

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Originally Posted by BeardoMSU

Respectfully, I just can't buy into this argument, CC. The United States has a legacy of progress. Is our country perfect? No, of course not. We've made mistakes, made them again, but always seem to get things right in the end (as we will with the current turbulence). America rid itself of slavery, has made strides in civil rights, women's rights, education, technology, and continues to help make the world a better place. That's what the American Flag represents. You can't even remotely say the same about anything connected to the Confederacy. Nada. That's the difference here. And it's the key one.

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Just to be clear I wasn't referring to anything about the confederate flag or the confederacy, I was speaking strictly in terms of American Flag and American hero's not the confederacy at all. You're a good dude Beardo.

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Originally Posted by BeardoMSU

Respectfully, I just can't buy into this argument, CC. The United States has a legacy of progress. Is our country perfect? No, of course not. We've made mistakes, made them again, but always seem to get things right in the end (as we will with the current turbulence). America rid itself of slavery, has made strides in civil rights, women's rights, education, technology, and continues to help make the world a better place. That's what the American Flag represents. You can't even remotely say the same about anything connected to the Confederacy. Nada. That's the difference here. And it's the key one.

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Sadly, I think CC is right. Once every vestige of the old South has been removed they will still not be happy and will find something else to be offended over. And I am afraid if will be our American flag. While I 100% agree with your stance of what our flag stands for, not all do. What is not debatable at all is that everything people despise the confederate flag for due to the things that happened under it, also all happened under the American flag.

Don't misconstrue the following as support for slavery and racist behavior. Just hear me out. The confederacy only existed for four years. It never had time to evolve and change. When it did exist, there were lots of people, in the North and South, that either supported slavery or at least tolerated it as a way of life back then. Hell, even Lincoln is quoted as saying he wasn't concerned about it. His main concern was preserving the union at any cost. I'm paraphrasing here but he said if he could preserve the union by freeing all the slaves he would. If he could do it freeing some of them he would. But if he could do if freeing nine of them he also would do that. Also during that time the Corwin amendment was proposed which would make slavery a constitutionally protected institution if the South would rejoin the union and end the war. And just as there were people on both sides that were pro slavery, there were those in the South, too, that opposed slavery. So the seeds to ending it already existed in the South back then. It's just they never had time to sprout since they lost the war and ceased to exist as a country. How would things look today had the South one? I have no idea, but I am pretty sure slavery would have ended long ago regardless. Between more people waking up to the horror that it was and technological advances making it more productive to use machinery instead of human labor it would have ended. But had America lost a war that caused us to cease to exist as a nation in 1865 what would the legacy be of our flag from 1776-1865 and what happened under it? Is it any different than what happened under the confederate flag from 1861-1865? The US has had an extra 155 years to improve.

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Originally Posted by Rex54

Respectfully....

https://dtkp6g0samjql.cloudfront.net...04980_irkw.jpg

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Pretty sure you piss sitting down.**

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Originally Posted by BeardoMSU

So peacefully kneeling at a football game is "disrespectful" to the flag of the United States of America.....BUT, continuing to honor the flag of the rebellion that attempted to break up that same United States of America over the right to own other human beings as property, is somehow....not?

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Exactly 'where' and 'when' do we stand in 'honor' of the Mississippi State flag at NFL games? And, 'what' does the band play?

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Originally Posted by BuckyIsAB****

Haha so is Drew Brees and everything else that the mob wants to end. Keep making excuses. If you let them take everything you have nothing

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This is true, but they've already moved on from Brees. He took his 48 hours of bad coverage & now is a distant memory

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Originally Posted by Mimi's Babies

They are coming for your guns next.... watch DC....

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I don't have any. I sold my entire arsenal along with the ammo to some guy they called El Gato. That must have been his fraternity nickname because I heard them say something about Zetas. Just putting that out there so nobody wastes their time searching my house or my vehicle.

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Originally Posted by Mjoelner34

I don't have any. I sold my entire arsenal along with the ammo to some guy they called El Gato. That must have been his fraternity nickname because I heard them say something about Zetas. Just putting that out there so nobody wastes their time searching my house or my vehicle.

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He must really like guns. I sold all mine to the same guy.

The world changes. And it's changing away from what a lot of people were comfortable in because it worked for them. What you think is right for you may be complete opposite of someone else. The world is so much bigger than any one persons view. The sooner you accept that and focus more on yourself and the ones close to you, the easier and more enjoyable life will be going forward.

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Originally Posted by Commercecomet24

Just to be clear I wasn't referring to anything about the confederate flag or the confederacy, I was speaking strictly in terms of American Flag and American hero's not the confederacy at all. You're a good dude Beardo.

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Oh, of course, CC. I didn't do a very good job of clearly directing my comment. My post was referring to people who conflate the issue of wanting to take down Confederate imagery and the future worry that American imagery is next (not specifically directed to your comment).

Now, you're correct with the current issue of mobs destroying/vandalizing statues; its horrible, and at this point appears to be a movement. I saw how Ulysses S. Grant's statue was toppled last night...the man who trounced the Confederacy...these people are just going after every statue of a white man from the 17/1800s with rage, not logic. Now THIS absolutely is a problem, but its a separate movement from the Confederate flag/statue one. People have been debating the Confederate flag, MS flag, confederate statues, imagery, etc. for decades; literal decades...this is not something that just recently popped up. One could argue the same specifically for the Columbus statues, as various groups have been going after him for decades as well (one of my favorite episodes of the Sopranos actually focuses on this, lol). Now, given the current turmoil, its easy to conflate the 2 things, but they are still separate debates.

And of course I've seen No Country...

https://media1.tenor.com/images/1922...temid=10439924

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Originally Posted by Cowbell

I will have to agree with CC. In my opinion, we have gone left of center in some areas. Abortion is a prime example. We do not always get it right and in the last couple decades, we have gotten more wrong than right. And we are sliding down some slippery slopes. There will come a time in this great nation when their will be more people on welfare than their will be at work. And when Christian values will no longer be accepted as ok.

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Don't misconstrue your conservative values with Christian values. If Christ came back today he'd be labeled a radical libtard for him loving all people and not giving a shit about your money, flags and statues.